Hi all;

I'm getting set up to reload cast for my recently acquired Marlin 444S.

I am an experienced reloader. I reload a number of other calibers. It has been my common experience that some powders just seem to work better with cast bullets in certain calibers. Maybe you all can shorten my learning curve with the 444 Marlin?

I'm fixing to load 300 and 310 grain gas checked bullets. I don't demand the absolute highest velocities, shucks, I just want accurate.

Which powder or powders will typically work the better with the 300/310 cast GC bullets?

Jerry

I have had sucess with two of Hodgdon's powders, 4198 and 322.]

Really simple. H335, H322, RL-7. All three do great things in the triple-four in the bullet weight-range you're looking for.

Let us know how that new triple-four shoots!

God Bless,

I'd also strongly recommend Marshall's three part "Tech Data" article ......... extemely interesting. And you'll see why he's qualified to use the term, "really simple".

Part I: http://beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/17

Part II: http://beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/19

Part III:http://beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/28

Dan

All the above are very good powders. I shoot a lot of IMR4895 in a 444, because of the price.

Hello Jerry,

I 'had' just finished working up loads for my .444p Guide Gun and 'had' settled on RL-7 as giving me the highest accuracy at high velocity, with H335 coming in second in accuracy but first in velocity - - - felt recoil being higher with H335.

If you noticed I said "had" finished! I bought a new batch of RL-7 beleiveing this was the powder for my .444 - - - but lost 80 fps with the exact same load and compnents and everything including temperature & wind conditions being the same as when I 'had' shot and decided on RL-7 - - now I am back to the drawing board and working on the load again.

I will probably stay with RL-7 as it still is giving me very good accuracy with more velocity than is needed for these little Elk around here.

I did also use Varget and it was the most accurate of all the powders I tried. Velocity averaged 1,760 fps versus 1,985 for RL-7. SD is running at 12 for RL-7 and 13 for Varget.

good luck and have lots of fun,

- - - Fletch

I am using the BTB 330 grn. GC and will continue working up the load again AS SOON AS Marshall gets me some more BULLETS!

Fletch,

What kind of accuracy are you getting out of your Outfitter?

By-the-way, .44's are on tap for prodution the last of next week, and the beginning of the following week :)

Thanks for the report!

God bless,

Hi Marshall and all,

Sorry for not replying sooner but I work part time at an Archery shop and just got back home.

My best accuracy using Varget is a five shot group measuring 0.773". This is at 100 yards, from a bench using front and rear sand bags, Load was 49.8 grains Varget, WLR primer, Remington brass, 330 grn. BTB LFNGCDCG, C.O.L 2.582" Trim length 2.215", Lee Factory crimp. Temperature 48 degrees, wind calm, overcast sky. Velocity 1,790 fps - extreme spread 49 fps - standard deviation 13 fps those statitics are from a fifteen shot group.

Using RL-7 average accuracy is pretty consistent at 1.25", (five shot groups), with the best group running at 0.879. Using 45 grains RL-7 old lot, (Velocity 1,985 fps average) and 46.5 grains RL-7 new lot (Velocity 1,990 fps average) , everything else same as above. , E.S. 45 fps, S.D. 12 fps.

The .444 'Outfitter' was fire lapped using 15 rounds with 280 grit clover brand lapping compound and 37 rounds with 320 grit BTB lapping compound, (sorry, but after firelapping a Ruger Supr Red Hawk .44 mag I decided to shorten my lapping time useing a 'little' bit of the 280 grit :o)! Barrel was hand polished using JBJ Bore Bright after hand lapping with BTB lapping compound on a cotton Bore Mop. The barrel was then broken in as outlined in the BTB Technical guide.

The .444 was scoped with a 2.75 power Burris 'Scout' scope .

With a Lyman reciever sight groups under 2 inches at 100 yards with either load is pretty standard.

Jerry - - again - good luck with your working up just the right load for your .444s

- - - Fletch

Hey guys...

I got myself a situation while waiting for my BTBs or the Lee Custom mold for my 444P to arrive. I'm having to make due with the cast Lee C430-310-RF as I prep for a hog hunt at middle month. The main problem is the bullet is .0017" under diameter... yikes!

No, I don't want to change the diameter of the mold because I'm casting that same bullet for use in a number of hog hunting 44's. In the 444P I had been using Rld7 with my jacketed bullets with great results but not so with the C430 no matter how much I try to slow the bullet down.

Besides the 7, I have BL-C(2), H322, H355, H4198, and H4985 on the shelf. It seemed to me if I reduced the velocity, I might be able to make the bullet fly good enough to be a hunter. I really thought it might be more than velocity, more about reducing pressure to keep from upsetting or smashing the bullet as it traveled down the barrel. After reviewing the pressures for these powders in Lee's MLII and putting their pressure/velocity factors into a formula to match the bullets BHN (15.4), it seemed like BL-C(2) would be the way to go. Using the Lee formula as suggested, it indicated that I should try to keep any bullet of this hardness under about 19,100 PSI.

It seems that H322, and H335 aren't contenders because the load must be reduced beyond a third of the case capacity. The reductions in H4198 and H4895 bring the projected velocity into the low 1400s. BL-C(2) however, looks like it will throw the bullet at 1535 to 1640 FPS while producing the target pressure and filling the case to 93% of it's uncompressed capacity.

Yesterday evening I was able to shoot a couple of rounds and the initial performance seemed pretty good. The accuracy at 100-yards was exceptional and there was very little leading evident in the barrel after 17 rounds despite this bullet being so undersized. I'm going to chronograph it today and see how the velocity looks.

What all this has lead to is a question of why wouldn't BL-C(2) be an acceptable powder in the 444 for bullets cast from the lighter alloys and hence smaller BHN values? I hope the text isn't stupid as I'm very new to this and trying hard to understand the science behind pushing lead out the end of the barrel.

Now if this isn't long enough take a look at this...

http://cuero.nodial.net/~lindareamy/images/444P barrel with bl-c(2).jpg

Really the only thing in the barrel are these "blonde" colored kernels. Is this just fried BL-C(2)?

Hi Ranch Dog,

I hae only worked a little bit with BL-C2 in my 444. Like you reported, expect very low velicities. I found it (lead bullets) to be a little dirty and kept pressures low. If you are are getting little or no leading and great accuracy, there is not much that can be wrong. Well... pressure is still in question. I am concerned that BL-C2 is a ball powder. Ball powders tend to get kinda squirrley when pressures are kept down. I really am guessing some here but I would be concerned with a light load of BL-C2 in a straight walled case when it's cold out. Not sure if you would get even ignition and steady pressures.Hopefully, somebody out there has more hands on experience with this kind of load than I do.

You may know that Accurate Arms makes a powder that is almost certainly appropriate in your velocity range. It is their 5744 powder. You will find it in a lot of reduced loads.

Still in all, Marshall Stanton's tech manual shows some wonderful (though not necessarily in pure velocity) results with the slower than "normal" powders. I am just concerned about using a ball powder for this application. You may want to do testing accounting for colder temps and high temps for that matter. I'd keep up the testing. It's pretty hard to argue with your results so far.

Let us know how it goes............. Bill

Hi Ranch Dog;

One of the other fellows mentioned Accurate's XMP-5744.

Maybe you should take a look at it for your purposes.

One of the nice things about it is that Accurate Arms has a 1-800 toll free tech number... it's on their website... maybe talk to them for free and ask about the 5744?

Regards,

Jerry.