I'm looking for a relativly flat shooting long range deer barrel for my Encore. The catch? It has to be a straight-wall cartridge (Southern Michigan handgun regulations).

I've been doing a lot of research and narrowed the field to these two, 444 Marlin and the new 500 S&W (Although other suggestions will be appreciated)

Also, I was wondering if my 2-8 Leupold can take the abuse of either of these cartridges?

Thanks

mbahr22250

I'm looking for a relativly flat shooting long range deer barrel for my Encore. The catch? It has to be a straight-wall cartridge (Southern Michigan handgun regulations).

I've been doing a lot of research and narrowed the field to these two, 444 Marlin and the new 500 S&W (Although other suggestions will be appreciated)

Also, I was wondering if my 2-8 Leupold can take the abuse of either of these cartridges?

Thanks

mbahr22250

I have both the 500MAG and the 444 Marlin. Both rounds have there good and bad points. Both have a lot on recoil, the 500MAG more than the 444 Marlin. The bullet selection of the 444 Marlin at rifle velocities is limited when using jacketed bullets. The 500MAG unless you reload is extremely expensive. There are a lot of places to get reloading supplies for the 500MAG. The bullet selection for the 500MAG is better than the 444 Marlin. I know you can use cast bullets in both and the 500MAG has a larger range of bullet weights. You may also want to consider the 45-70. Bullets range from the 300 gr. to 500 gr. and more if you choose. But all three will work for what you are looking to do. It is a matter of personal preference. I could not choose so I have all three. :)

Almost forgot. I have Leupold's on my 444 Marlin and I am going to put a Leupold on my 45-70. One thing is, Leupold will stand behind the scope if it fails. I have not had any problems with my Leupold scopes. I had the Leupold on my 500MAG as well, but decided to put it on my 444 Marlin and I put a Red-dot on my 500MAG. I have shot quit a bit and have had no problems at all. :D

Have a .375 Winchester on a T/C Contender frame. This is a nice combination and there is a fair assortment of bullets available for it. It's enough gun to handle any deer or bear you have in Michigan.

Have a .375 Winchester on a T/C Contender frame. This is a nice combination and there is a fair assortment of bullets available for it. It's enough gun to handle any deer or bear you have in Michigan.


Is there a large selection of .375" bullets for the reloader like myself?

mbahr22250

There are quit a few of .375 bullets out there. I have a good choice for my 375H&H.

Is the 375 a straight-walled case? I know the 45-70 isn't. Doesn't this void the question?

Bill

Is the 375 a straight-walled case? I know the 45-70 isn't. Doesn't this void the question?

Bill

The .375 Winchester that kdub recommended is a straight walled case. However, the .375 H & H is not and is a very powerfull round that sees much use in Africa and Alaska.

JJ

Is there a reason behind only being able to use a strait walled case? just find it sort of odd...

Well if your looking at the 444 and 500(and im suprized that no one else has said it) what about a .454 cassul? shoots just as flat if not flatter than the 500 and rather powerful. dont get me wrong i love the .44 family and the 500S&W magum, but its just an other choice. and if your looking for a big bore you have other choices as well. such as the .480 Ruger or the .475 or 500 Linbaugh (spelling?) of the .510 GNR. though, a .50 cal might be a bit much for deer.

Is there a reason behind only being able to use a strait walled case? just find it sort of odd...

Well if your looking at the 444 and 500(and im suprized that no one else has said it) what about a .454 cassul? shoots just as flat if not flatter than the 500 and rather powerful. dont get me wrong i love the .44 family and the 500S&W magum, but its just an other choice. and if your looking for a big bore you have other choices as well. such as the .480 Ruger or the .475 or 500 Linbaugh (spelling?) of the .510 GNR. though, a .50 cal might be a bit much for deer.


I'm not sure what the reasoning behind the straight-walled case is. You can hunt with any rifle cartridge you want in Northern Lower Michigan (including handguns chambered for those calibers). But lower Michigan is shotgun and straight walled cartridges, in handguns not rifles, only.

As far as the .454 Cassul goes, I had considered that, but I have a Redhawk chambered in that, just wanted something different. Any excuse to buy a new gun or barrel is a good one.

mbahr22250

Is there a reason behind only being able to use a strait walled case? just find it sort of odd...

Well if your looking at the 444 and 500(and im suprized that no one else has said it) what about a .454 cassul? shoots just as flat if not flatter than the 500 and rather powerful. dont get me wrong i love the .44 family and the 500S&W magum, but its just an other choice. and if your looking for a big bore you have other choices as well. such as the .480 Ruger or the .475 or 500 Linbaugh (spelling?) of the .510 GNR. though, a .50 cal might be a bit much for deer.

Your statement about .50 might be a bit much for deer puzzles me. If everyone thinks a muzzleloader in .50 cal is good, then why would a handgun with a .50 cal be to much? :confused:

I believe the "straight-walled cartridge" rule is for safety reasons. Southern Michigan is typically more heavily populated than Northern Michigan. If bottle-necked cartridges were allowed, for example, out of a 15" Encore handgun, this would be defeating the purpose of NOT allowing rifles in the Southern zone.

I thought there was also a stipulation that the handgun used must be capable of holding a minimum of five-cartridges in a cylinder or magazine. There again, eliminating the chance of using large, powerful cartidges that would come close to rifle ballistics/extended ranges.

I will have to check my DNR rules........

Hey mbahr22250, were are you near in MI???

Mark

Just thinking a hollow point .500 smith would do a whole **** of alot of meat damage, just my opinion though.

I believe the "straight-walled cartridge" rule is for safety reasons. Southern Michigan is typically more heavily populated than Northern Michigan. If bottle-necked cartridges were allowed, for example, out of a 15" Encore handgun, this would be defeating the purpose of NOT allowing rifles in the Southern zone.

I thought there was also a stipulation that the handgun used must be capable of holding a minimum of five-cartridges in a cylinder or magazine. There again, eliminating the chance of using large, powerful cartidges that would come close to rifle ballistics/extended ranges.

I will have to check my DNR rules........

Hey mbahr22250, were are you near in MI???

Mark


I'm just South East of Lansing. Where about's are you from?

The 2003 Reg Book says "A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun bust be .35 caliber or larger and loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined."

mbahr22250

Just thinking a hollow point .500 smith would do a whole **** of alot of meat damage, just my opinion though.



A hollow point is not needed, you can use a soft point bullet or even a cast bullet. Also shot placement to minimize meat loss and being able to make a clean kill is not all that hard. Most of the shots I have put down deer with went through both rib cages. No meat loss was incurred.

The original poster wants a flat shooting, long range deer barrel, something the .500 is really not. Recoil also effects accuracy, and it is far easier to shoot long range with a more mildly-recoiling, flatter shooting cartridge than the big .500. With that in mind:

.357 Maximum firing 150-grain CoreLokts or 180 Hornady handgun bullets.
.375 Win firing 200 Sierra or 220 Hornady ( .375 H&H bullets are 'way too tough ).
firing 180-grain bullets seated out.
.44 Magnum firing 180-200 grain bullets - long range remember.
.445 Supermag firing 200-240 grain bullets - recoil getting tougher.

I'm not certain that the .375 meets the straight-walled case restriction, but the others do.

BTW, the available HP bullets in .500" are pretty tough, particularly considering the long range idea where velocity has dropped off significantly in this large case. Meat damage shouldn't be any worse than a .45-70 rifle with 300-grain HP in any event....a very popular deer load.

Also the original poster wanted the opinion of the 500MAG and 444. You gave several different round that the 500MAG will out perform at equal ranges. The 445 Supermag, 44 Magnum, 10mm Auto, 357 Maximum. The 350 gr. Hornady will out perform any of the above mentioned cartridges. Yes, recoil is heavy on the 500MAG, but practice and good shooting skills will over come that. Also you will be taking only 1 or 2 shots, not like a secession at the range.

Thanks for all the input guys!

I did a little more research and digging. With that said, I just ordered the 444 Marlin barrel today. The 375 is very intriging (sp?) though. That might be next.

Thanks again.

mbahr22250

Nicely said; we seem to be in the age of hand-held artillery..... there's a bunch of guns/chamberings that can flat-out seriously hurt the shooter.

Now, those cold beers, on the other hand... I think I could use one... :)

It is fine to sit back in an armchair with a cold beer and make pronouncements like "practice and good shooting skills will overcome" - when the reality is that most shooters will neither practice enough nor acquire the skills needed for the job of long range hunting. :cool:


I think the 444 Marlin is a fine choice. It can be loaded down to perform like a 44 MAG and slowly worked up to full power 444 Marlin loads.

LoneStar just for your info, I don't drink. :cool: With that said, I also have been shooting for over 20 years and that still does not make me an expert. I am though very familiar with the 444 Marlin and the 500MAG, because I have both. Practice, Practice, Practice and then Practice some more is the only way to become skilled in shooting. When I first started shooting I jumped right in on the big bores and was told to start small. But I just had to do it my way. It took me a lot more practice to get proficient than if I would have started with a smaller or lighter caliber. I agree the 500MAG is not a beginner round, neither are the 44MAG 445. But people just want to jump in to the big bore barrels so they don't have to get a smaller round and then buy another one later for what they wanted to began with. :D

mbahr22250, Are you new to handgun shooting? The reason I asked is, I see you have an Encore already. :D

I have and am still rechambering alot of T/C Contenders in 44 mag. to the 444 Marlin and with my own, it has served me well out to 225 to 250 yards on everything from armadillos using Sierra's 180 gr JHP to Hornadys 300 gr. XTP for 400 + pound hogs. I'd take the 444 over the 500 any day....

DAVID

The 444 is a good choice. I got a nice deer a with one. Superb results. I'm looing forward to trying out my .500SW this year though.

I have and am still rechambering alot of T/C Contenders in 44 mag. to the 444 Marlin and with my own, it has served me well out to 225 to 250 yards on everything from armadillos using Sierra's 180 gr JHP to Hornadys 300 gr. XTP for 400 + pound hogs. I'd take the 444 over the 500 any day....

DAVID

David,
How have you liked the 300gr XTP performance on those hogs, I just had a bunch made up for my 444 for next year's deer season and I can't wait to try them. I'm asking because I'm not so sure how the HP would perform on shoulder shots? I know if you've had good results on those hogs they should tear up our little Alabama whitetail.
Thanks

Oh yeah, I can't imagine shooting a 444 from a handgun, my shoulder just will handle it.
Matt

Matt,

me personally, I actually prefer the Hornady 265 grain Flat Point for the big hogs. I have killed several with the 300 grain XTP but do not get near the penetration or bone smashing power that I get from the 265 grainer. I can also easilt stretch this one out to 200 - 225 yards if need be, as it has the accuracy to do so but at that distance, I will usually not shoot anything much over 300 pounds....

DAVID

How about the 450 marlin or 45-70 or 475 lindbaugh.

I've killed a ton of deer with my TC .45-70 and have not suffered excessive meat damage, and it is throwing a 300 gr. bullet at 1890 fps, which is just a tad less than the 500 with 350 at 1900.

I have both, and while the 500 has more punch by virtue of bullet weight, the 444 is MUCH flatter shooting. The 500 has the advantage(?) of being chambered in a revolver, for faster follow-up So choose your gun, ammo, and shot carefully and you won't be disappointed.
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