I have been shooting pump actioned Remingtons all my life (760, 6, 7600) and have found them to be extremely accurate hunters here in Pennsylvania. I also have been recently hunting with the Remington mountain LSS 700 bolt action, and I was wondering why many disregard the pump action rifles with the argument that bolt action rifles are superior in accuracy. I do not notice any considerable differences between my bolt actioned rifles and my pumps when bench rest shooting. If this is true that bolt actioned rifles are more accurate, what is the basis for the argument?

[Read an article several years ago in Shooting Times, Cant remember all the particulars, as to bolt lock-up and strength. The mechanicals all point to a bolt gun for long range work. But I do recall, that for deer slaying out to about 150yds there just wasn't that much difference. I'm from Western Pa., and in my deer woods 100yds is a long shot. I've been knockin' em down with an old modle 141 in.35Rem. for over 30 years,(inherited pump from Dad).
The white tail just can't seem to notice if I hit them 1/2" high or not. Gave the rifle to my oldest son, and it groups right around 1" for him at 100yds. Must be some reason why Remington pumps were always called Pennsylvania Deer Rifles...

HAve shot a few pumps that would group very well...wouldn't dismiss pumps unless you've worked with one and it's prooved to be inaccurate. For hunting, I've nothing against pumps...and to a man use to a pump shotgun, it seems the most natural thing to do after a shot. Keep a .22LR, .22mag., and .32-20 pump and have to say they are fast shooters. Believe the forward motion of the pump lever helps get them on target for that second shot.

Are some issues in reloading, but they are surmountable. Poor inital extraction and final chambering...that high leverage little bit that a bolt action gives when the bolt handle is turned up or down...requre the pump to take a bit more care in sizing and to not run loads to the ragged edge.

I cut my teeth on a pump rifle, and the whole family shot remington pumps for years. They are fine rifles...those that knock them generally dont own one. My pet project of the future is rebarreling one to a .338-06. That would be sweet.

I have connected on whitetails & mule deer at ranges in excess of 350 yds regularly with my pump .270 & 30-06. However I know both of these rifles, have shot a lot of rounds through them and have absolute confidence in them. That being said, I can't cloverleaf at 100 yds with them but I can keep it about the inch mark or so with the proper handloads.

I will grant that the bolt actions have a measure of greater accuracy off the bench and over the 300 yd mark. For all practical purposes that margin is very small if you know your gun.

The big advantage of bolts over pumps is the limits on caliber chambered for the pump. If I could get a Rem pump in the 6.5x55 swede (hence my moniker) I would own one. The pump is primarily chambered for 30-06 cartridges and their derivatives.(.308, .270, .243 etc).

My favorite rifle right now happens to be a .264 Win Mag...not available in a pump. But if I had one shot to make for all the marbles...one of the rifles I would consider is my .270 pump.

I agree with you and find a major component in accuracy is knowing your rifle and your familiarity with it. If you have the confidence you will make your shot.


My $.02


swede

You have pumps, semi-auto's, and bolt actions (Let's not forget break actions). I think that most firearms are far more accurate with good ammunition than the person pulling the trigger. I mean, unless you are shooting from a rest on a bench to a target 100 yrds away on a calm day, you just aren't going to print impressive groups anyway. Try firing a rifle at any object, moving or not, while standing and shooting from the shoulder and tell me which is more accurate?!?
I can't tell personally.
But anyway, I think the action is a matter of preferance for the individual. Sure, from the bench, some may be more accurate than others, but it depends on what you are going to be doing with it. I think everyone should own two of everything so they can develop an experienced opinion !!! (Can someone convince my wife please?)

I personally dont see a big differnce between Bolts, pumps and levers off the bench. I learned on an old remington .22 bolt and i personally like pumps and levers better. i think the only accuracy differnces your going to see are Semi-autos are going to be less accurate and Falling blocks are going to be more accurate, but hey, thats my opinion.

As has been said before , the most accurate rifle is the one you shoot best and are most comfortable with. If you're a pump man shoot 'em and be happy. I've got an old remington pump .22 and it is darn fun to shoot. My dad hunt's with an old rem. pump .06 my only complaint is that is pretty darn heavy for lugging around in the woods.

Ah yes, The PA machine gun. Any of you Pennsylvanians who get the PA Game News are no doubt familar with the venerable Don Lewis. He says that all of the remington pumps he has seen have been good shooters. For my money, I'll take a bolt action just because its all i have ever used, and i haven't really seen the advantage of a pump over a bolt, it doesn;t take much practice to get pretty quick with a bolt. Long live the Model 70 Featherweight!!! Maybe you guy will consider shooting the pump guns in the postal match, wouldn't it be interesting if one won

Back in 1939 my dad, who was just out of high school, went to work near Dubois, WY in the timber cutting ties to be floated down the Wind River to Riverton. There they were put on a train to be taken somewhere to build railroads. Many of the timberjacks were Swedes not too long out of the old country. They were notoriously hard workers, but also hard drinkers.

One day, one offered to sell my dad a Model 14 25 Remington for $12.50. As my dad told the story, this old Swede wanted some drinkin' money. So Dad bought the gun, which was in good shape, except the stock was broken, and was wrapped onto the receiver with a wire coat hanger.

When the summer was over, so was my dad's job, so he moved back to Encampment. Over the years, he shot "a pile of deer and antelope" with the gun, but starting in the 5O's, when the elk population was coming back, he bought a Remington 760 30/06 to hunt the bigger animals, and the old pump collected dust in the closet. With that 760, he killed several more piles of deer and elk. For some reason, he quit hunting antelope. Something about those "stinkin' ol' things."

By the time I came along and was old enough to hunt you couldn't buy ammo for the 25. When I was in high school, as part of my woodshop class, I made another stock for it. Not fancy, but functional. But still the gun collected dust because we had no ammunition. this was before I started reloading.

In the late 70's, I started reloading for my Rem. 700 ADL 30/06. At the time there was this discount store in town called Gibsons. I went in there one day, and these die sets were on sale and one's label said 25 Remington. I couldn't believe it, so without thinking too much I bought them....$16.95 I believe they were. Come to find out, I couldn't get brass for the 25. After doing some research, I found out that the 30 Remington and the 25 Remington share case sizes, except for the neck. So I bought some 30 Rem. cases, necked them down, but when I did, I found the neck walls were too thick, so I inside reamed 'em. Then they worked just fine.

As with most rifles, it likes some loads better than others, but with Hornady 117 RN bullets and 28 grs. of H4895, it will shoot 2" groups at 100 yards if I do my part. With 100 Nosler BTs, loaded single shot fashion, it'll do even better. Nothing melts the stress away better than shooting that old gun. It would be the last gun I'd ever want to lose possession of. I don't have any sons, but I've got some nephews who are hunting fools like me, and one of them will get it when I'm gone, only with the stipulation to never let it leave the family.

Ah yes, The PA machine gun. Any of you Pennsylvanians who get the PA Game News are no doubt familar with the venerable Don Lewis. He says that all of the remington pumps he has seen have been good shooters. For my money, I'll take a bolt action just because its all i have ever used, and i haven't really seen the advantage of a pump over a bolt, it doesn;t take much practice to get pretty quick with a bolt. Long live the Model 70 Featherweight!!! Maybe you guy will consider shooting the pump guns in the postal match, wouldn't it be interesting if one won
Good luck to you and your bolt. If you win, Just imagine how good you could have been with a pump!

Uncle Motorhead, Can i expect a target from you?

Remington 7600s can be pretty accurate and fast for repeat shots. I'm trying to think, though, the last time I needed/could have used a second shot. Their triggers tend to be less adjustable, their weight a little heavier, and their balance a little too far forward, and the safety position is a bit clumsy for me. Still, I do want one.

Jaywalker

I got a 30-06 carbine last year. Only hunted with it one day, but it was great for packing in the thick woods.

The only neater Remington pumps are the ones in 35 WHelen!

Wish more choices in caliber existed for them. I like the fact it is set up like an 870 and at least for me it is left-hand friendly. Never see many of them in gun shops in Texas--guess it is a regional thing.

I can understand why a manually operated action might be more 'accurate' than a (semi-)automatic action. However, I'm not sure why a bolt would necessarily be 'inherently' more accurate than a pump. A bolt would certainly be more convenient to operate from a bench rest. Fired off hand, the pump would have the advantage of not requiring the hand on the trigger to be moved. A bolt would tend to be 'stronger', allowing for hotter loads and a greater safety margin for handloading. I would be interested in seeing if anyone knows of a reason for the 'accuracy' reputation though. For hunting, particularly with factory loads, I would say that a pump is an excellent choice.

As a young adult I purchased a Ruger .270 bolt action rifle, which I thoroughly enjoyed. During the 25 years I hunted with this rifle, there were times where I needed followup shots due to running deer, heavy cover, etc. About three years ago I sold my Ruger to a good friend ( with purchase rights if he should ever sell it ) and I bought a Remington .270 pump, removed the sights and it sports my Redfield low profile 1.75-5x wideview scope. I also am a reloader.

FWIW, I've found no difference in accuracy between the two rifles. My Remington pump is very accurate with 0.5 MOA shots at 100 yds frequently. I will be shooting more at longer ranges as well as continueing to try different loads ( it's what reloaders do ! ).

My pump was a Grice limited run model with black laminant stocks.

Regards, Vic

Seen pics of those special runs for grice at the remington website in .35 rem and 35 whelen. Sure was tempting.
But one pump not mentioned is the old savage pump in 30-30. That is one light fast handling rifle that i think could give any lever a run for its money.

I prefer a bolt action for a hunting rifle. Second choice is lever gun. My pumps are older Win 22's, other than an old Remington M25 in 32-20.

A friend, who was a guide for quite some time, prefers a 760 Remington pump in 30-06. The 760 Rem. worked better in a scabbord on horseback. He claimed it was next best to a lever gun.

With shotguns I prefer a pump action over all the rest. I've used M12's since a kid, so the pump part would be natural but I prefer the old M70's, even on horseback. I like to shoot 300 H&H, 375 H&H and 338 Win; don't think the 760 would handle the big boomers like a bolt action, but the 760 Rem has been quite a popular gun for plenty of hunters, so each to their own.

Regards:
Rod

The accuracy "problem" with pumps is most likely related to earlier models that had rear locking bolts with asymmetrical locking surfaces, the thinner flexible action cross section, the two piece stock where the front half is loosely attached, and all the vibration inherent in those action parts. Then there is the thin sporter contour barrels, the method of retaining the barrel, and the trigger with disconnecter, among others. The bolt action is just more rigid and consistent.

I had a Remington 141 in .35 Remington and an Ithaca Model 37 shotgun, oh yeah I wish I had kept them. I dearly loved that Model 37 with the bottom ejection. Both were slicker than an iced over parking lot.

I've got to wonder how much real world difference in accuracy there is between a bolt and a pump off hand at ranges of 75-150 yds? I was a dyed in the wool bolt guy, but I'm coming around to the other side fast. Blame Marlin levers if you must, though a Rem 7600/.270 and a BLR-81/.308 are helping pave the way too. I'm lousy with anything free hand, and I'll bet that'll apply to most of us who are willing to be honest. Shoot a 5 shot group with your bolt, free hand, 100 yds, and see for yourself. Most humbly, but quite sincerely,
Mommicked

I personally don't care for the balence and feel of a pump. I have never needed a follow up shot, so I can't comment on the speed or neccesity of a pump. I always cycle my Bolt guns for a follow up, fast I must say, but I never have used that second round. I usually carry 3 rounds in the mag. I can comment on shotguns. I have owned break, bolt, semi, and pump. I only have break, pump or semi auto now. But that is a different animal. I guess it boils down to what you have confidence in, and feel comfortable with. Jim