Reading the thread on the 50/500/510 Whisper cartridges, makes me wonder what bullet might work well in the little single shot rifles chambered for 38/357Mag with SUB-SONIC Loads. I found the Hornady 180gr SPSSP (Spire Point Single Shot Pistol) bullet, but it's a flat base style. Would a longer or different style 35 caliber bullet be better for a sub-sonic 38/357 cartridge? Lookin' at SUB-SONIC only - not some high speed round...

If I run the ballistics thru the online calculator on this site, what bullet BC & DRAG FUNCTION should I select to calculate the Hornady 180gr SPSSP?

https://www.hornady.com/shop/shop_image/product/3505_rif_bul_35-180_SP_IL.jpg

They also list 200gr and 250gr 35cal bullets - longer but otherwise identical to this one....

http://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=shop/browse&category_id=d42291fbe8f33e0d22def283933b7f92

Suggestions? Who makes the best bullet for this purpose? Would a streamlined LEAD bullet work as well, considering the low velocity? Marshall? ;)

TIA!!

I've used Lymans 358627 in .357 mag and 38 spl. with light loads for bowling pins, with great success. This is the (discontinued) 220 gr. SWC designed for the .357 Max. I used it in Remington cases with as little as 3 gr. of 700X. I never did chronograph that one, but it simply went "pop", and the pins few off the table. I'd estimate about 700 fps from that load. ==Bob

Gowge, the 357 magmun usually has a slow twist and probably not stablize bullets over 200 gr at sub-sonic velocities. A cast bullet will stablize with a slower twist then it takes to stalibize a jacketed bullet of the same weight. The 200 gr. flat nose, gas check, RCBS bullet, may be a good choice for sub-sonic 38/357 mag load. For sub-sonic loads, in both rifle and pistol, the best powder I've found so far is Alliant Red Dot. It shows the least velocity variation, whether the powder is oriented to the front or rear of the case. I recently developed a sub-sonic for my 30/06. The bullet is Lyman #311284, cast of wheel weights + 2% tin, they weigh 220 gr.. 9 grs of Red Dot gets 1050 fps. and will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yds. The muzzle blast is barely more then a 22lr. but without the crack sound of the 22 bullet, just a flat boom. I've used Red Dot in other cartridges for velocities in the 1200-1300 fps. with good resaults. :cool:

I think you're right about the rifling twist rate for the 38/357 rifles. It's one of the reasons I was thinkin' the 180gr first, instead of the longer, heavier bullets. I figured 180gr would still carry a pretty good punch a little past 100 yards from a rifle while still remaining sub-sonice @ the muzzle...

I wonder what would be optimum twist rate for best accuracy with subsonic handgun cartridges? 1:10? Faster? Slower?

I have a friend who is interested in putting a rig together for eradication purposes with a legal "moderator". The wildlife dept down here will issue licenses for removing feral or game animals from private property/ranches and landowners are willing to pay for the service...

GOOD LUCK! ;)

One reason cast bullets tend to stabilize in slower twists than jacketed bullets the same weight is because they are shorter. All lead is denser than lead/copper combination resulting in shorter bullets. Also most cast bullets do not have as long an ogive. All other things being equal longer bullets need more spin than slower bullets. Also, increased velocity will not compensate for too slow a twist. The increased air pressure on the nose of a faster shooting bullet offsets the increasing rpm.


Gowge, the 357 magmun usually has a slow twist and probably not stablize bullets over 200 gr at sub-sonic velocities. A cast bullet will stablize with a slower twist then it takes to stalibize a jacketed bullet of the same weight. The 200 gr. flat nose, gas check, RCBS bullet, may be a good choice for sub-sonic 38/357 mag load. For sub-sonic loads, in both rifle and pistol, the best powder I've found so far is Alliant Red Dot. It shows the least velocity variation, whether the powder is oriented to the front or rear of the case. I recently developed a sub-sonic for my 30/06. The bullet is Lyman #311284, cast of wheel weights + 2% tin, they weigh 220 gr.. 9 grs of Red Dot gets 1050 fps. and will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yds. The muzzle blast is barely more then a 22lr. but without the crack sound of the 22 bullet, just a flat boom. I've used Red Dot in other cartridges for velocities in the 1200-1300 fps. with good resaults. :cool:

Don't worry about the flat base. You're talking about a .358 180 grain bullet. The ballistic coefficient is already so bad to start that you won't notice the absence of a boat tail at any reasonable range. Remember the .30 Whisper uses a 220-240 grain match bullet. To get a .358 caliber bullet with the same SD you have to go to 330-325 grains.

Reading the thread on the 50/500/510 Whisper cartridges, makes me wonder what bullet might work well in the little single shot rifles chambered for 38/357Mag with SUB-SONIC Loads. I found the Hornady 180gr SPSSP (Spire Point Single Shot Pistol) bullet, but it's a flat base style. Would a longer or different style 35 caliber bullet be better for a sub-sonic 38/357 cartridge? Lookin' at SUB-SONIC only - not some high speed round...

If I run the ballistics thru the online calculator on this site, what bullet BC & DRAG FUNCTION should I select to calculate the Hornady 180gr SPSSP?

https://www.hornady.com/shop/shop_image/product/3505_rif_bul_35-180_SP_IL.jpg

They also list 200gr and 250gr 35cal bullets - longer but otherwise identical to this one....

http://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=shop/browse&category_id=d42291fbe8f33e0d22def283933b7f92

Suggestions? Who makes the best bullet for this purpose? Would a streamlined LEAD bullet work as well, considering the low velocity? Marshall? ;)

TIA!!

Gowge, sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I've been swamped with work and I can barely keep up with it. I think using pistol cartridges is not the way to go. I would use rifle cartridges form 30 to 375 caliber. I think a minimum of a 200 gr bullet is needed to be effective. If you want a single shot, a T/C Contender or G2 in 30/30 would probably work. I believe these barrels have a 1 in 10 twist and should stabilize a heavy cast bullet. A cast Lyman bullet such as #311284-220 gr. or #311290-218 gr. should work. The Lee 200 gr. bullet should work also. As I said in my previous post, Red Dot works very well. I don't think you need to build a speical rifle to shoot sub-sonic loads, I would try what rifles you have. In 30 caliber, cartridges that should work, if they have a 1 in 10 twist, are 308, 30-40 craig, 30-06 and 300 savage. I've started working with an 8mm mauser, so far it seems ok. Moving up the catridge scale, 358 win., 35 whelen and 375 win. may all work. The larger belted cases may work, but their larger case volume will take a larger powder charge and that will increase the muzzle blast. The Whisper concept is to be as quite as possibly. I hope this helps, I think there is a lot of experimenting to be done in this area. Joe :cool:

I think you're right about the rifling twist rate for the 38/357 rifles. It's one of the reasons I was thinkin' the 180gr first, instead of the longer, heavier bullets. I figured 180gr would still carry a pretty good punch a little past 100 yards from a rifle while still remaining sub-sonice @ the muzzle...

I wonder what would be optimum twist rate for best accuracy with subsonic handgun cartridges? 1:10? Faster? Slower?

I have a friend who is interested in putting a rig together for eradication purposes with a legal "moderator". The wildlife dept down here will issue licenses for removing feral or game animals from private property/ranches and landowners are willing to pay for the service...

GOOD LUCK! ;)

I was intrested in having a rifle like your friend wants. I bought a H8R Handy in 30-30. For ammo, I drill out the flash holes to 9/64, use mag primers, and use a scoop made from a .22 short case full of WW 231 with a 220 gr 311284 as cast from AC WW, lubed with Crisco& bee's wax. As yet no "Can" Slick: Cheap: & Easy!

zooly