What is the maximum caliber you could put in the neck of an '06 basic case? Forget shoulder problems etc. I'm just wondering about maximizing the case for less bolt thrust. No real plans for this but kind of curious. Thanks. 'Dito

If I understand correctly, you wanna know the largest bore diameter you can make from a 30-06 case.....
The old wildcat 400 Whelan comes to mind. A bullet diameter of .400, I believe, (or very close) on a 30-06 case necked up.
Not much shoulder left when you neck up an '06 case that far- it's prety close to a straight case.

0.473" head size - figure about 0.012" - 0.015" for neck wall thickness, let's say 0.015" x 2 just to be safe - leaves 0.443" max bullet diameter, IF you headspace on the case mouth, like a .45 Auto. Perhaps a 0.429" (ie .44 mag) jacketed bullet so we'd have a slight bit of taper to the case.

Don't know if it's practical for a full-length rifle cartridge to headspace on the case mouth or not.

Anyway, of the wildcats that exist on the '06 case, the .411 Hawk is the largest I'm aware of. Search around on the site for references.....

Pretty much a rimless .444Marlin-Maximum.

The 444 Marlin is made from a 30-06 blank - first 444s were headstamped 30-06. It's basically a rimmed 30-06. You can probably buy 30-06 cylinder brass - before it's necked down to whatever caliber... EASY PEASY!

GOOD LUCK! ;)

Gowg,

Seems that I would need .444M cylinder brass to get the rim. Any idea where I could get a couple dozen of those cases?

Cheers/buffler

The 444 Marlin is made from a 30-06 blank - first 444s were headstamped 30-06. It's basically a rimmed 30-06. You can probably buy 30-06 cylinder brass - before it's necked down to whatever caliber... EASY PEASY!

GOOD LUCK! ;)

Gowg,

Seems that I would need .444M cylinder brass to get the rim. Any idea where I could get a couple dozen of those cases?

Cheers/buffler


444M is already a cylinder type brass - EASY PEASY! ;)

Check the picture below - cartridge and chamber dimensions. Copy & save to a file...

It's not necked down - not really - just a little bit of taper in the case so it works well for extraction. You can "Improve" it some by making the case sides more parallel if you want when you cut your chosen chamber or neck it down for something smaller, etc...

GOOD LUCK! ;)

http://www.leverguns.com/dimensions/images/444marlin.jpg

Well, sure, Gowge;

I did not explain my goals very well... I'm looking to build an 8mm on my Ruger #3 action, with about the case capacity of the .30-06 Imp ( want to shoot a 180 gr Nosler BT at near 2900 fps w/ using a magnum case. However, I also want a rimmed case (can't imagine shooting one of those new-fangled "cut-down-butt" catteridges :-)

Additionally, I want something for which I can rent a reamer. So, the logical one is a 8mm-06R, AckImp. So, I would need to find the .444 Marlin brass in the full-length cylinder, untrimmed. I feel fairly sure that the brass is 30-06 length somewhere in the process, though not so sure that anyone would be willing to sell it at that stage.

Other possibilities like 8X57R AI, and 8mm Krag AI would lose me a couple hundred fps from my target ballistics... this is to be an antelope and other western game rifle, plus to be used in a specific Eastern mountain pass where black bear can be seen at ranges of 350 yds :-) An 8mm-.348Win is a possibility, though with a bit more case capacity than I need. Also haven't found rental reamers for that cartridge.

Cheers/buffler

444M is already a cylinder type brass - EASY PEASY! ;)

Check the picture below - cartridge and chamber dimensions. Copy & save to a file...

It's not necked down - not really - just a little bit of taper in the case so it works well for extraction. You can "Improve" it some by making the case sides more parallel if you want when you cut your chosen chamber or neck it down for something smaller, etc...

GOOD LUCK! ;)

http://www.leverguns.com/dimensions/images/444marlin.jpg

Buffler, is your Ruger rifle already barrelled in 8mm? Is that why you want an 8mm rimmed wildcat? If you plan a NEW barrel in 8mm, I think you're making the whole project more complicated than it needs to be... Either the 308/309 X 444 with 180gr bullets or maybe a .338x444 wildcat would be a lot more probable and David White could include reloading dies and everything you will need to load your own.

What's wrong with shooting 180gr 30 caliber bullets? For long range shooting, it would be hard for an 8mm to beat the BC & SD numbers in this particular weight...

Keep in mind, a 30-30AI with 180gr bullets can be cranked up to over 2500fps with only 40,000psi loads in a lever action rifle. Necking down the larger 444M case to 30 caliber would allow much more performance in a strong Ruger action...

What's the fixation with the 8mm bore? AFAIK, there's NO modern rifle chambered in a rimmed 8mm cartridge... Must be a good reason.

GOOD LUCK! ;)

Gowge,

Thanks for the reply; I apreciate your interest!!!

I'll bet that you are a "gun crank"; I know I am. As certified GCs, we get cranky about certain things, f'rinstance, a liking for rimmed cartridges. F'rinstance, a dislike of the .30 caliber :-) also .270 and 6mm!!! I shoot .25s, 6.5s, 7mm, 8mm, and larger ones. I also don't like belted cases.

Now I'm not saying that any of this is rational, or even reasonable, but I likes what I likes, as Popeye might say:-)

No, I don't yet have an 8mm bbl. Until this past week, the project was to be a .38-56, a cartridge I LOVE!!!, but I never could get the type of ballistics I wanted for antelope, sheep, goats, etc. from those fat stubby bullets. There is sufficient bullet selection available in 8mm to satisfy me... AAMOF, I expect that the Nosler 180 gr BT will be satisfactory for every sort of game that I might want to shoot with this rifle, up to black bear at long range, though I am buying a M1895CB in .38-55 for general use on bear and hogs.

As for no modern rifles in 8mmR, you could *almost* as accurately say there's no modern rifle chambered for 8mm, without specifying rimmed!!!:-) Anyway, I hate to shoot something ordinary, either in the rifle or the chambering. I *like* it when someone sez: "What the heck did you say you are shooting????" :-) Anyway, 8mm seems to me to be a ballistic ideal, certainly for NA game leaving out smaller varmints. If you think I'm marching to a different drummer, then I'll say: "That's no ****ed drum, its a bagpipe!!!!"

Yes, an 8mm-.444 would almost get the performance I want, but so would a n 8x57R AI, and rental reamers are available for that number.

Again, thanks for the conversation; I'm liking it. And, I'm not being difficult... just cranky :-)

Cheers/buffler

Buffler, is your Ruger rifle already barrelled in 8mm? Is that why you want an 8mm rimmed wildcat? If you plan a NEW barrel in 8mm, I think you're making the whole project more complicated than it needs to be... Either the 308/309 X 444 with 180gr bullets or maybe a .338x444 wildcat would be a lot more probable and David White could include reloading dies and everything you will need to load your own.

What's wrong with shooting 180gr 30 caliber bullets? For long range shooting, it would be hard for an 8mm to beat the BC & SD numbers in this particular weight...

Keep in mind, a 30-30AI with 180gr bullets can be cranked up to over 2500fps with only 40,000psi loads in a lever action rifle. Necking down the larger 444M case to 30 caliber would allow much more performance in a strong Ruger action...

What's the fixation with the 8mm bore? AFAIK, there's NO modern rifle chambered in a rimmed 8mm cartridge... Must be a good reason.

GOOD LUCK! ;)

Gowg,

Seems that I would need .444M cylinder brass to get the rim. Any idea where I could get a couple dozen of those cases?

Cheers/buffler

I would imagine any specialty BRASS manufacturer like Midway would be willing to sell you as much untrimmed, basic 444 brass to use for your wildcat cartridge as you would want. Any idea what kinda' performance you can achieve with just 55gr of powder capacity & 180gr bullets?




I'm considering an 8mm-06R AckImp on my Ruger #3 action.

There's quite a few rimmed wildcats on the 444 case.


Discussion on this link:

http://www.bellmtcs.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=24&t=1113&

Here's a picture of just three 444 wildcats...

"This is a picture for comparison of the 308 Bellm, which is for the T/C Contenders and the H&R/N.E.F. single shots. The middle picture is of the 308 Bellm #2 which is for the Encore and H&R and the one on the right is the new 308 Alpo....

http://www.hunt101.com/img/137091.JPG

Using one of my favorite powders for most of the short barrels H-4895 I weighed the empty cases first and then filled them to the bottom of the neck and weighed them again and here is what I came up with.

308 Bellm: 44.6 grains

308 Bellm#2: 52.5 grains

308 ALPO: 55.9 grains

As a side note and interesting observation, for some strange reason the 308 Alpo will fit in a 309 JDJ chamber and like wise, a 309 JDJ round will fit in the 308 Alpo chamber! Hmmmmmmm...Very interesting....


GOOD LUCK!

buffler,
Wonder if you might consider an animal of a differen't stripe, such as Elmer Keith's 338x74? Brass would be much easier to acquire (9.3x74 brass), it is a rimmed cartridge, the 338 is pretty close to your 8mm requirement, lots of different bullet weights available, and ol' Elmer sure liked it.

Anyway, just thinking out loud.

Alyeska,

.338 is a cal that I rather like, but the bullets in that cal are built for "magnum velocities". I'd be really happy with an 8mmX74 on the Brenneke case (variously reported to be .005-.007" smaller at the base than the '06 case), but again, reamers are a specialty item. Whatever I do, I will rent a reamer. BTW, I build my own rifles, so the cost of a reamer is a *much* greater portion of total rifle cost than in the case of having a custom gun built by a gunsmith.

Thanks/buffler


buffler,
Wonder if you might consider an animal of a differen't stripe, such as Elmer Keith's 338x74? Brass would be much easier to acquire (9.3x74 brass), it is a rimmed cartridge, the 338 is pretty close to your 8mm requirement, lots of different bullet weights available, and ol' Elmer sure liked it.

Anyway, just thinking out loud.