Hey everyone,
I recently bought a Russian Mosin Nagant M44 and am looking for some good 7.62X54R ammuntion. I'm not going to be hunting with it, just using it at the range but I still want something that is accurate and reliable. If anyone has any advice on which ammo would be best for this and where I might be able to get it would be very much appreciated. Thank you very much everyone.
-Phil

Phil,

Winchester was supposed to reintroduce the load in the white box. I haven't seen any yet. (been out of country) There alot of surplus that I wouldn't be afraid to shoot. Its dirt cheap and I'm sure you'll find something your rifle prefers. Norma and Laupa both produce the round but they're expensive. If the ammo is marked corrosive don't be afraid to shoot it also. Just wash the bore with hot soapy water, dry then clean as normal.

I've been using the Wolf 200 grain and the S&B match in both my M38 and my 91/30 sniper. Both are MOA accurate out to 100 or so.

I found some winchester 180 gr bullets in Colorado springs. 20 rounds for 13 bucks!

A lot of times you can find some Sellier and Bellot ammo. The company is based in Czechoslovakia but I have heard reports that this caliber round is actually manufactured by winchester under their name. Dont know if it is true or not though. Anyway, they make a round nose and a match round for this caliber. I can get the round nose around where I live for 10-13 bucks. The match round cost a bit more. Never tried the match round but the hunting round is ok. I actually bought it just to get the brass cases but it was fun to shoot none the less. YOu can get much better accuracy with hand loads in this gun if you reload.

No such country as Czechoslovakia anymore. Split into the Czech Republic and Slovakia. S&B comes from the Czech Republic. Winchester imports it and repackages it, Winchester does NOT manufacture it.

aaahhh so its the other way around. I got ya.

I have been using the S&B AND the Winchester ammo.

I have noticed that, yes, they are both the same...except for one small diffrence...

For some reason, the primers on the Sellier and Belloit are way too soft...my firing pin punches holes in them...but won't do the same in my Winchester, Wolf, other types of surplus, or reloaded S&B brass with CCI or Winchester primers...As I have said...just with that ammo..mebbe a bad batch...but all in all, it shot very very well. :)

Darrell

I have a, perhaps silly, question concerning this round. If I were to build a bolt action rifle for this round what action could I purchase that would be suitable? I have a silly notion to make kind of a .308x54R so I could have a better selection of bullets to reload from. Any ideas on this?

This round has one of the largest rims you'll find on any cartridge. Bolt face diameter is going to be a real problem unless you can find some action already adapted to the cartridge.

The Siamese Mauser that was made to shoot the 45-70 round might be a possible candidate.

Gibbs has converted the Brit .303 Enfield to 45-70. This is also a possibility - it was developed to stack the rimmed cases in the magazine to begin with.

Snarf,

why don't you just get a "gunsmithing special" M-44 or M-38....then have it rebarreled? The reamer would have to be customized, but not too hard to do....Just take a standard x54R and grind the throat area down a few thou. Rebarrel with a Adams and Bennet .308 1-10 so you can shoot the heavier bullets and get after it. Put it all in a monte carlo stock and get a decent scope mount for it attached...

The only other costly thing would be the die set...RCBS or Hornady might do a custom set...and then there might be a set that IS available for this conversion....

why don't you just get a "gunsmithing special" M-44 or M-38....then have it rebarreled? The reamer would have to be customized, but not too hard to do....Just take a standard x54R and grind the throat area down a few thou. Rebarrel with a Adams and Bennet .308 1-10 so you can shoot the heavier bullets and get after it. Put it all in a monte carlo stock and get a decent scope mount for it attached...


A poster on Gunboards did just that a couple of years back... a true 7.62 (.308 bullet) x54R. Looked great, and he said it shot extremely well.

Hmmm... Well I did think of that first. However after reading a couple of things about the M44 action and barrels I didnt think that you could rebarrel it. And actually besides that I really wanted a scope mounted closer to the eye but didnt want to drill into the side of the receiver. Is there anyway to do this other than drilling into the side? I found a custom shop online that really does some impressive work but the price is also up there at over 2000 without optics for just about everything they listed. As far as the reloading dies, I have a neck sizing die that actually came with a .308 expander as well as the .312 expander so that part is covered. And actually before I had the neck sizer I had the Lee die set which comes with a .308 expander as well. I ordered the .312 expander separate. Not sure if the Lee factory crimp die will work on it but it shouldnt be too much to get one of them.

Sportsman's Guide and other places have a mount that requires drilling of the receiver ring. It cantilevers back over the action to place the scope at normal eye distance. Comes with a kit to alter the bolt to make it low mount for scope clearance. A gunsmith can make the alterations, or - if you're a handy machinest, can do it yourself with a basic drill press and hacksaw/file.

Snarf,

I am going to say that 2K for the items I just listed is a bit out there...

My Brno cost me all of 600 dollars with rifle included...including a Leupold M-8 6x32 and corelite rifle stock...without any load development it will cluster all day at 2 inches or less...

A real find would be a "gunsmith special" hex reciever...that way the flat top would be easier to drill and tap...mebbe use a standard mauser style scope base....dunno if you could modify the jig to hold it in place...I feel that the accuracy would be there...got me to thinking, now. :)
Several outfits are selling complete M-N turned bolts for scope mounting...man...I am liking the sound of how that would turn out....

Darrell

MNs can be rebarreled, but I've never done one. Mausers are easy to pull the barrel, but I've been told that Mosin barrels are really, really torqued onto the receiver.
Side mounts are no big deal, check the Brownell's catalog. Somebody is offering a mount similar to the Russian sniper mount, but with a Weaver type rail. I think Williams offers a traditional side mount as well.
Bolt handle is no problem to lengthen and bend. Since the bolt body is seperate from the locking surfaces, heat control is not as critical as on a Mauser bolt, well withing the capabilities of most home/hobby welders, and a snap for a professional welder.
I love Mosins, and I wouldn't spend $2000 for modifying one!

Several comments on all the above:

Mosin barrels range from hand tight to almost welded in the receiver, mostly the later! A GOOD barrel vise and action wrench is requird to remove most of them.

Hex receivers only offer one flat area to D&T, the rear base would still need to be drilled into the side of the receiver.

Hornady recommends using .308 bullets when reloading the 7.62x54. Works well in some, others need .310-.312 to group well.

Scout type mounts offer the least resistance when scoping a Mosin but obviously do not meet the "close to the eye" objective. They also require a LER type scope or red dot sight (again, obviously)The 'sniper' type mounts offer the next easiest path to scoping and were used on some original rifles.

Lastly, there are other rifles that more readily lend themselves to sporterizing--just my $.02

This is good info to know. I have wondered from time to time if .308 bullets would be ok for my barrel. I would hate to buy a whole box just to find out that they were not suitable. I havent slugged my barrel yet. I believe its time for a trip to walmart for some sinkers and a dowel. In the end it is nice to know that it is possible to rebarrel this action.

Speaking of actions. Would there be any advantage of getting a new action and just building the whole thing from scratch? The main contributors to accuracy seem to be the barrel and chamber.

Again, unless you started with a Brit .303 Enfield action (equally difficult to mount scope due to split receiver) and opened the bolt face from .540" to .570", or found a Siamese Mauser in 45-70, you're going to run into a problem getting the bolt face to accept the large diameter rim of the cartridge.

Easiest course of action is to slug the barrel to determine bore diameter and purchase bullets for reloading that will match the bore. As for scope mounting to place scope back near the eye, get one of the kits available, tap the receiver and install the mount. Cut the original bolt off and install one provided in the change-over kit.

These M-N carbines were never meant to be used for match competition. With .311" Sierra 173 gr Match King bullets, IMR 4350 powder and Remington 9 1/2 primers, my Mod 38 will group approx. 1.5 MOA - that's using a pistol scope mounted in the "Scout" configuration with a mount attached to the rear sight frame.