Is the 38/55 a useful rifle for anything larger than whitetail sized game??? I saw a sweet 38/55 for sale the other day. It was a Marlin with a heavy octagon barrel...the gun was awesome, but is the caliber very useful? How does it compare to a 30-30, 35 Rem, or 45/70 (3 guns I own)...probably closer to the first 2...I doubt it's even in the same league as the 45/70, other than bullet velocity...

The 38/55 is a great round, esp with hand loads. The Winchester factory loads are pretty wimpy but with hand loads in a modern 38/55 it is a pretty hard hitter. I shoot a 250 grain JFP .378 bullet that Dave Deering makes. This past fall I shot a large doe (about 175 lbs) at 160 yards and it took her clean off her feet. Is the rifle you are looking at a new Marlin or an older one?

38-55 traces its history back to the days of black powder cartridges. Ballard built target rifles for this cartridge.

With the advent of smoke-less powder, many fine black powder cartridges languished. But as decades passed the 38-55 received a smoke-less powder loading and cont'd to slay game for its owners(s). Many antique rifles are still used to topple game for the freezer each Fall across North America.

38-55 is not a long range cartridge. It does its best work within the same basic parameters as the excellent 35 Remington. 150 yards or so is its approximate maximum range based upon trajectory and other factors.

For the hunter who simply wants to shoot big holes through deer at 100 yards or less, the 44 MAG is tough to beat. Within in its effective range, this modern cartridge is quite lethal indeed.
TR

The rifle was a new Marlin...not sure of the model number, I would have to check...

Rifle25:
Be sure to check the barrel, many of the 1893 octagon barrels were marked -FOR BLACK POWDER ONLY-. Even so, don't pass it up. I have one marked for black powder, and enjoy shooting it. I load with a case full of pyrodex and a cast 255 grain
bullet. If I do my part it will keep all shots inside of 2" at 100 yards. Most Deer are taken at 75 yards or less, and you are not under any handicap with the 38-55 at that range. Black Powder or Smokless, it is a tough cartridge to beat.

Lee L.

It's not black powder only...of that I am sure.

The gun is a marlin 336 Cowboy...

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/leverActionCB_rifles/336Cowboy.htm

Rifle25,
If it's a Modern Marlin Cowboy then loaded right it can take about all the Big Game we have here in the good old USA. I have a pet load in my 38-55 cowboy that shoots a 280gr Hardcast bullet at 1900+fps and will group under an inch at 100yards when I do my part and thats with a Tang sight............the 38-55 Cowboy is a little heavier then the 45-70 cowboy and is pure pleasure to shoot with heavier loads vs the 45-70 Cowboy. My wife thinks the 38-55 is hers.
.................................................. ...................Marko

There were some issue's with the bore size, and Marlin has some issue's with being a little generous.The 3855 is oneof different bore sizes. Maybe this is the reason it is on the "USED" self
I would first want the bore slugged , then determine if We could match jacketed loads to the bore. I like Marlins , do not get me wrong, but I have a marlin that has one to what they call the new SAMMI Spec. That leaves me matching up lead bullets for an otherwise great gun
The 35 RC made in '54 I have is great Ballard rifled right bore
As far as a CB & hunting gun a new 45colt with the case hardened reciever would be grand.
my ,02cents

The 336CB is a great rifle. I have had mine since last summer and just love it. They are real shooters. If you go to the Ranch Dogs postal match under the 30 Cal class you can see some 38/55 targets those rifles shoot. And again with handloads that rifle will pack a good punch.

Is my vintage 1905 Winchester '94 (.38-55) up to handloads, or is it strictly a factory shooter (not including Buffalo Bore)? Thanks to whoever answers.

Mainer,

I would say yes, your '94 can handle reloads that take it somewhat past the anemic factory stuff. If your gun has a nickle steel barrel then you can load it considerably better than factory. You must first slug the bore to determine it's true diameter, which can range from .375 to .380. Brass and bullets are available from several sources.

Mike

My first deer rifle was a Win. 94 in .38-55. It was accurate, but factory loads were weak and they still are. I would not advise one to hunt deer with factory loads. They do not expand and they do not penetrate. I had to shoot a deer four times in the lungs to put him down. All the bullets stayed in the chest cavity. I had Phil B. Sharps book on handloading and started loading my own cartridges with much stronger loads, and that rifle became an excellent deer killer. I would not recommend it for hunting though if you do not handload. My .41 mag. revolver with a 4&5/8 bbl. kills deer much more quickly than the .38-55 factory loads.

The last batch of factory loads I 'graphed only averaged 1180fps (WW 255gr. JSP's). Know they are listed higher, but that's how much they actually read with the 'graph set at 15 feet (24" rfile barrel). Haven't a clue to what the pressure level of this load is, but from comparison with known pressure tested reloads, it is proably under 12,000psi.

Lyman states (Lyman #48):

"SAAMI has also established a Maximum Average PRessure (MAP) of 30,000CUP for the 38-55. Shooters should exercise caution if loading for older guns as many have developed excessive headspace."

Now 30,000cup is a pretty big jump, and you may not want to take that leap. Key here is the wording of "Average Pressure". Lyuman keeps to 25,000 or under....but that's still enough to drive a 255gr. lead bullet to 1800fps.
---------
The only other item that may cause problems is old brass. The old listed case length was 2.129". Modern cases have had thair lengths reduced to 2.085" (which is the new SAAMI standard).
Haven't measured the modern 38-55's chamber length, but hope they cut them long enough to not cause trouble if an older case finds its way into a modern chamber.

everyone's right on with their advice on the .38-55-- great cartridge, but if you want to do more than just plink twice a year, you'd better handload.

I have been intrigued by this cartridge ever since I saw my first '93 Marlin at a gunshow 14 years ago. Paid the man $415 and walked away with the rifle and a big grin on my face! Mine's a 1900 vintage with a dark bore but crisp rifling and shoots the winchester factory stuff into less than an inch at 50 yards. That's why I designed my bullet the way I did when I started swaging last year-- the Winchester factory bullet is not available as a component, and I wanted to make handloads that would duplicate the performance I got with that first (old) box of W-W shells that had .378" bullets. I, like big medicine, killed a nice size doe with my bullet and a warm handload last season, and the performance was all you would expect- deer ran 40 yards, stopped, and keeled over. Good .65 caliber exit hole, and blood everywhere.

Bottom line is, the .38-55 is a great gun, and the prospective buyer will not be disappointed with it, as long as he's willing to go to a little extra trouble to feed it good handloads.

Here's Buffalo Bore's specs on thier heavy 38-55:
Heavy.38-55 (http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/photos.htm) Printed Order Form (http://www.buffalobore.com/contact/order.htm)Item No. 11
20 PakHeavy .38-55 11A/20270 gr. LFN GC Penetrator
sized .3781900 fps/ M.E. 2044 ft. lbs.Per Box of 20
$39.99
Order Now! (http://www.buffalobore.com/cart/itemAdd.asp?item_num=46)11B/20270 gr. LFN GC Penetrator
sized .3801900 fps/ M.E. 2044 ft. lbs.Per Box of 20
$39.99
Order Now! (http://www.buffalobore.com/cart/itemAdd.asp?item_num=47)11C/20255 gr. JFN Expander
sized .3771950 fps/ M.E. 2044 ft. lbs.Per Box of 20
$44.99*
Order Now! (http://www.buffalobore.com/cart/itemAdd.asp?item_num=48)

Exterior Ballistics Item 11A100yds (0)150yds (-4)200yds (-12)250yds (-24)Item 11B100yds (0)150yds (-4)200yds (-12)250yds (-24)Item 11C100yds (0)150yds (-3)200yds (-11)250yds (-22) * Bonded Core Bullets NOTE: Item IIA and IIC are recommended for use in all rifles chambered for .375 Winchester.


As you can see, previous comments to slug the barrel is advice well taken, and unless you can afford to keep a constant supply of premium ammo on hand, reloading is your only option to factory loads which don't come close to the potential this round has to offer. Though the max loads shown here are a bit short of the .35 Remington, you have the advantage of using heavier, slightly larger diameter bullets, which make for a quite respectable deer rifle out to 150 yards.

SFT - Do you mean that the .35 Rem factory ammo compares to the BB .38-55, or are you comparing .35 Rem handloads? Also, I guess I'm not too sure what you guys mean when you talk about "slugging" a barrel. Is this something done at home, or can I get a gunsmith (if there are any left) to do it? Thanks

SFT - Do you mean that the .35 Rem factory ammo compares to the BB .38-55, or are you comparing .35 Rem handloads? Also, I guess I'm not too sure what you guys mean when you talk about "slugging" a barrel. Is this something done at home, or can I get a gunsmith (if there are any left) to do it? Thanks
Not real sure what SFT means by the .35Rem. comparison...the vel. is less than the 35Rem. but the bullet weight for the 38/55 is greater.

Slugging would be driving a soft lead oversized slug through the barrel by hand and then measuring the barrel's true diameter. Will find 38-55's are usually bored big (but not always) and bores up to .381" aren't unheard of.

Check the Tech. Notes on this site; there are instructions that you can easily follow at home. Need a good caliper, but that's a bit of equipment every reloader willeventually need for a variiety of uses, so it's not money spent unwisely.

Jacketed bullets are a bit more tolerant of being undersized for a bore, lead bullets less tolerant of the miss-match.

Comparing the factory 200 grain .35 bullets at 2000 fps, you still get more velocity and energy at the muzzle, but downrange the 38-55 is going to have more (slightly) retained energy and a bigger, heavier bullet, so that's my basis for favorable comparison. A handloaded 220 grain .35 bullet at 2200 fps is just going to beat a hotloaded 38-55 no matter how you look at it, but this is not to say either one is superior, and this is clearly a case of matching the right load to your rifle and skills. Some people can kill a deer with headshots using a pistol at 600 yards, that doesn't mean we all can or even should try such things, and if you know your limitations as well as your rifle's, then you shouldn't have any problems taking game cleanly and humanly.
SFT - Do you mean that the .35 Rem factory ammo compares to the BB .38-55, or are you comparing .35 Rem handloads? Also, I guess I'm not too sure what you guys mean when you talk about "slugging" a barrel. Is this something done at home, or can I get a gunsmith (if there are any left) to do it? Thanks

You can buy a barrel slug kit through Brownells or similar companies, and even if you don't have a micrometer, your local gunsmith will and then you'll know the diameter of your barrel.

From what I read the 38/55 was designed as a target rifle.

With the bore size of 375 -380 jacketed bullet that fit the bore may be a problem, so I take it that every one with the larger bore size needs to shop for lead bullets.
Then do you send a once fired case out and have a custom die made?
With new rifles why can not tighten up on the tolerances so at least one size fits all.

From what I read the 38/55 was designed as a target rifle.

With the bore size of 375 -380 jacketed bullet that fit the bore may be a problem, so I take it that every one with the larger bore size needs to shop for lead bullets.
Then do you send a once fired case out and have a custom die made?
With new rifles why can not tighten up on the tolerances so at least one size fits all.



Seems that 38-55's just keep on goping, so are a lot of old barrels out there still slinging bullets. From a safety standpoint, using a smaller diameter bullet would be the best way of insuring that the occasional oldie with a tight bore doesn't get stressed (mostly for the sake of the weaker single shot actions).

Basically they did standardize it..gave it a modern pressure rating...and called it the .375Win. Why else reinvent the wheel?

The .377" jacketed bullets can shoot spretty well in a .379" bore..not great, but acceptable. Haven't measured the current factory loads, the WW factory loads in the locker are about 10 years old and use a .377" bullet. Would be nice to have .378" -.379" available for the over bored guns, but considering the ballistics of the round there is nothing jacketed can do that lead bullets can't do as well. Barns still lists the "Original" bullets in .377" (Huntington carries them) and various custom casters offer bullets in several diameters up to .381".

I have never slugged my bore and dont plan to. It will shoot the Hornady 220 grain bullets if I push them, but the .378 bullet that Stone Fence makes will pretty much shoot a clover leaf. So for me there is no point to slugging the bore. I have ne plans to shoot cast bullets when I have jacketed bullets that shoot as well as they do. Seems like a lot extra messing around.

Well ,thanks for sharing all the information. I have never shot the 38/55 but there must be some joy in it. Iknow a lad that custom made a Martini in this bore and shot a clover leaf .
That is something my 45/70 guide will never do. Then again I am going to fit lead to this bore to see where I am at .
It seems the 44 Mag has fallen to New Sammi spec in the last few years and is now .431.
That explains why my unchecked rifle is throwing the 429 bullets .
I like to use rifles for hunting as well as at the range . Go for it!

Gents,

for whatever it's worth, those I have talked to have reported the Marlins from .3785 to .3805 groove diameters. I find it hard to believe that there's that much variation with modern CNC tooling, so I attribute the difference to the various individual micrometers being used and how they are used.

I thought the modern Winchesters were tighter, since Winchester moved to the slightly smaller bullet in the factory ammo, but I have had a couple of different guys with Winchester commemoratives tell me their rifle slugged .379 or better as well.

As for my Marlin .375(microgroove), I have not slugged it either, but it shoots the current factory Winchester .38-55 with the .377 bullet very well. Marlins tend to run a little large, so I am guessing it is .376 or so.
hope that helps-
Stone

Aah Harry,
The 45-70 guide gun will shoot clover leafs. ;) The group I shot for Ranch Dogs postal match last year was one large hole except for the last shot that was a flyer, with that the group still measured .711. That was at 100 yards with a Leuopld 1x4 scope. Do not under estimate the 45-70 guide gun. :eek:

The 35 Remington will take most North American game without any fuss at all using plain Remington core-lockt ammo. Those 200 grain bullets are designed specifically for this cartridge and none other. Performance is fairly predictable.

38-55 requires some custom handloading and other tasks to match the 35. Whether you want to complete these additional tasks is entirely your choice. Good hunting to you.
TR
TR

I think i know what part of this thread is about ! Someone is having trouble with their 38/55 shooting cast bullets with their over sized barrel ! All of the 38/55 barrels i have loaded for were over size by todays idea's ! What i found was that i had to load only 20 to 1 lead/ tin alloys only to get any accuracy with any of the marlin 93's or win 94's that i had , if i was going to load to higher velocities ! I would use 1 to 25 or 30 tin/lead alloys for the standard velocities of 1200fps and lower ! You can get good accuracy with jacketed bullets that are .375 in the.380 grooves but you will also get gas cutting doing that ! As for the comparison of the 35Rem to the High Velocity 38/55 loading that is interesting ! Both are to me 200yd or less rounds for hunting game ! JAGG

The only reason to play with the 38-55 is for cast bullet hunting. Here the heavier bullet, larger diameter bullet, and wide flat point made a difference at short range. IF you intend to shoot jacketed bullets, would be happier with the .375W. and its more standardized bore diameter.

In comparison to the .35rem., the issue factroy loads put the .35Rem way ahead of the .38-55. Comparing jacketed bullets to jacketed bullets, there isn't a lot of difference even when the 38-55 is warmed up a good bit. But it you like to cast bullets and hunt with them, it's always nice to have a bigger, heavier bullet with a big wide flat point.