heavy revolver, and light .38 special loads. Over 20 years ago, Enos was getting .11 second splits, using full charge .38 Super loads, in a comped 1911, of no more wt or size than Jerry's revolver, and grouping twice as Tightly, too. Brian was using .38 super loads that matched the 175 IPSC power factor of momentum, a considerably more powerful load than Jerry's .38's. Jerry shot at 5 yds, not 10, too. Just goes to show ya, you can make a horse and buggy go pretty fast, but it will never match a fast car. :-)

Miculek used a .357 magnum revolver with .357 magnum rounds not .38 specials.

not for his record times, he didn't.

Guess about 25 years ago was shooting at a Thibodaux, La. combat match and saw Jerry shoot...he wasn't a nationally know shooter then, and not at his peak form, but that guy could shoot a wheelgun. You expect that kind of thing at a national televised match...but this was jsut a bunch of locals, and he stood out.

Don't think the object is to be faster than a semi-auto, just fast with a wheel gun. Could well set up the semi-auto into afull acuto (just amke a two round busrt limiter in stead of the 3 round limiters) and everyone could have 1/20th second doubles. Considering what the revolver has to do and the amount of trigger finger motion to get it done, am more impressed with the revolver's times than the semi's.

Yep...He used .38specials, loaded to the old lower limit power factor (NOT thopse whimp WC loads, but the old "minor' power factor rated to equal full chaged .38specails/9mm's).

yep, CONSIDERABLY easier to control than the .45 ball level 38 super's used by Enos, and WAY easier to control than full bore 357's. Not to lessen Jerry's feat in any way, just to keep things ACCURATE and in proper perpective. I have no desire to win a horse race, I'll take a fast car, thanks. The idea is to better be able to save your life, not have to work a lot harder, to be not quite as good.

Ain't the arrow or the bow, it's the Indian.

Ain't the arrow or the bow, it's the Indian.

:D What'rya tryn' to say paleface... :D

AMEN

Ed McGivern put five shots in a group that could be covered by a fifty cent piece at 15 feet in 45/100's of a second on Aug. 20, 1932. but anyway, he used S&W revolvers because he wrote that the 1911 would not cycle fast enough. another feat he pulled off was to shoot two groups with a gun in each hand at the same time in 1.2 seconds at 15 feet, and each group was smaller than a playing card. he's my hero, even tho i'm a 1911 addict.

monty

:D What'rya tryn' to say paleface... :D

AMEN

Suspect you know, and are just pulling my chain for forgetting to use Native American (or the current PC term)...apology to you if I've insulted, offence was unintentional.

Saying anyone can go out and buy a dozen arrows and a great bow, but it's the brave with the skill/dive that kills the blue coat.

So..which is more deadly, the $2000 gun in the hands of a novice, or the $100 gun in the hands of a master?

(and I realize now I"ll get grief over the term "master").

He also shot 6 shots, reloaded and shot 6 more for a total of 2.99 seconds, once again covered by a playing card and Monty, i agree, he's my hero too!

Ed was fos about that claim about the .45 1911. Anyone with a timer can readily prove that the 1911 will cycle at the rate of .10 sec splits. Which is all Ed Achieved with his .38. He couldn't get faster than .20 second splits with N Frame .45's, either. Perhaps that was because of his small hands. His Book said his .38 load was 148 grs, at 700 fps, from a SIX inch barrel and his .45 load was 185 grs, at 750 fps, from a SIX inch barrel. Both are wussy loads. His time started when his hammer fell on his first shot, so he was only cycling the action FOUR times, in .40 second

Also, Smith and Wesson and Jerry CONSIDERED using Ed's timer for Jerry's feats, and decided it was BOGUS apparatus, to which none of today's shooters would attach any real significance, so they decided to use modern timers.

To demo the 10 shots per second with the 1911, simply hold the gun in the strong side hand, with all fingers on the front strap. Insert the forefinger of the weak hand into the guard, palm down. Then merely "vibrate" that finger and the gun back and forth, and you will soon get the hang of maximizing the rate of fire, and SHOW yourself that the 1911 most certainly CAN cycle at the rate of .10 second or faster. :-)

Ed did nothing of the kind about the speed reload. Miculek did that, and he used a .45 ACP revolver to do it, with "full moon" clips, and he did NOT shoot such a tight group,either. YOu are confusing McGivern with Miculek.

Guys, enough. Thread locked.