I'm the proud owner of a new 1894 in 44mg, I am trying to choose which brand of ammo for this year's deer season. I was going to go with Horandy's 240gr XTP, but people everywhere are raving about Black Hills rifle ammo. I wonder if there pistol ammo is as good. They make a 240gr JHP that is cheaper than Hornady's and price is a factor for me. Has anyone out there used Black Hill's pistol ammo? Or I'd love to hear other suggestions for a good whitetail factory load in 44mg. I need something that will create a large wound channel and deliver the most knock down power. The area I will be hunting in is the kind you don't want to have to track a deer far in.

Absolute most smack - the Federal 300gr. CastCore which is an LBT bullet design. I shoot nearly the same load (Beartooth 280gr. WFNGC) and it's rough on whitetails.

Downside - it won't be cheap, and Marlin 94s can be picky about what they'll feed.

Do research the loads... the added velocity generated by the rifle is going to stress the JHPs at short range. Other consideration might be the Nosler partition pistol load (Winchester) but it won't be cheap either.

Shot some of my 300gr. WFNGC loads in .45 Colt out of a Marlin 94 this past weekend.... 1700fps!!! That thing really was getting my attention......

One other thing I meant to ask in my first post, Has anyone shot any of CCI's shotshell loads through their levergun? I have used it befor in pistols as good snake medicine. Is it safe to use the shot shell ammo in a levergun?

Matt,
Why don't you get into handloading? None of my 1894s or handguns in companion calibers have seen factory ammo in years or since they left the factory. Nothing like the satisfaction of knowing you took that monster buck with ammo you made. Plus, you can taylor the load to your gun. You'll also shoot more and be able to save between 50 & 75% on each box you shoot compared to factory.

No, I've never tried the shot shells in any of my rifles, but I would expect your pattern would be blown by the rifling. I'd be careful about shooting very much for fear of plastic fouling issues.
Rich

I've knocked over several coastal blacktails with the 44 MAG carbine. Coastal blacktails rarely exceed 130 lbs. By knocked over, I mean to say they dropped in their tracks or toppled after a jump or two. One big buck went up on his hind legs like a stallion pawing the air but fell over backward and died. Hornady 200 grain hollow tips were used. This is a fast and fairly flat shooting bullet but please do not attempt shots beyond 100 yards or so. The 44 MAG is mighty but only up close.

I've killed only 3 mule deer with Ruger 96 44 MAG carbine. All deer were well over 170 lbs live weight. 240 grain XTP bullet was used. Each deer fell over within a few jumps after impact.
TR

The 200 grain XTP by Hornady opens up to approx. 70 caliber upon impact and makes a wide wound channel that is impressive. Yet, as this bullet is nearly same length as it is wide, the penetration is less-than-ideal for large animals.

240 grain XTP is a better all around big game bullet. 250 grain Nosler as loaded by FEDERAL is especially designed for deep penetration; excellent choice for the wild boar hunter.
TR

The 240 XTP has taken quite a few deer and hogs for me in the past, and I have not experienced the meat damage so many warn against. What impressed me were the cheapest .44 mags they had at Walmart, a 240 grain jacketed soft point, which penetrated well and has performed every bit as well as the premium hollow points. *(correction/clarification, when I say premium I am refering to the factory special hunting loads, and not to Buffalo Bore, as they and others such as Garret are in a league of their own)* My Marlin 1894 would not feed semi-wadcutter bullets, but lived on a steady diet of lead roundnose flat point cowboy loads, with full power mags for hunting sometimes in the same weekend.
Buffalo Bore, while expensive, is worth every penny if you need a premium hunting load, and I've used their heavy .35 Remington, .44 special and mag. as well as .45 Colt extensively in the past couple of years.

Not being a "naysayer"........i've loaded the 300 gr Hornadys and done well with them. But, it seems to me that if we spend even $200 for the rifle, and even $50 for the scope (or none, whichever), is $1 (or even $2) too much for a bullet (the part that actually does the job)??

For me it is worth the peace of mind knowing that the extra power is there in a load safe for me and my gun. With Buffalo Bore, I know there loads are consistent and do not go above safe pressures, and has been thoroughly tested, and there are few persons that can safely duplicate them. I supposed it's a personal choice, but if you need the extra power then you know you've got it, but for the average sized deer inside of 100 yards, the velocity gained from a rifle barrel makes most .44 magnum loads more than enough.
Not being a "naysayer"........i've loaded the 300 gt Hornadys and done well with them. But, it seems to me that if we spend even $200 for the rifle, and even $50 for the scope (or none, whichever), is $1 (or even $2) too much for a bullet (the part that actually does the job)??

Last year's doe I shot was with 240 XTP handloads, She piled up in short order, with a huge blood trail. I've tried factory loads from remington and winchester that didn't perform nearly as well, even on perfectly placed shots. Long runs with no blood.

On Veteran's Day last year I took the biggest 10 point buck I've ever taken in my life with a Marlin 1894P using my handloaded Remington 210 grain JHP in front of 27.0 grains of Hodgdon H110 and a Winchester WLP primer. This is a hot load that works well for my Marlins and Rugers. The old buck dropped right there and did not budge from a single neck shot at roughly 50 yards.
Rich

Have you thought of using the Speer Gold Dot bullets? Their design is one of controlled expansion with a bonded jacket so weight retention is in the upper 90 percent. Also, the SXT bullet (I think it's been renamed as it's now made for hunting), was the famous Black Talon bullet with a different color jacket and marked "for law enforcement use only" on the box. A very good round with plenty of penetration and expansion. Either one should put a deer down quickly with a properly placed shot.
Just another suggestion and 2 cents.

Have you thought of using the Speer Gold Dot bullets? Their design is one of controlled expansion with a bonded jacket so weight retention is in the upper 90 percent. Also, the SXT bullet (I think it's been renamed as it's now made for hunting), was the famous Black Talon bullet with a different color jacket and marked "for law enforcement use only" on the box. A very good round with plenty of penetration and expansion. Either one should put a deer down quickly with a properly placed shot.
Just another suggestion and 2 cents.


I have, infact, I use a 270gr speer gold dot loaded for me by Georgia Arms in my 444. I went out and bought a box of the 270gr in 44 and plan to do some penetration testing. what is the best medium to use for this? I have heard wet newspaper, phone books, and balistic gelitan, but the last option sounds expensive. Where would you buy that anyway? As to the Black Talon, I do have an old box of their 44 250gr load sitting on my shelf, I didn't know that Winchester's SXT is the same thing as the Black Talon rounds. surely something to think about

You are always going to have a limiting factor no matter what media you use for penetration testing, and that is real world conditions. Bones are at various angles to the bullet, muscle have a different consistency than organs, varying thicknesses of everything, etc., so anything you use is likely to give different results and may not be accurate as to terminal performance. When I was a LEO with the State of Texas, I helped DPS test the then new Black Talon to see if it was all it was said to be. We used Duxseal behind the tailgate off an old truck to shoot through from about 15 yards to see how it performed and penetrated. Even after going through the metal tailgate, the BT consistently penetrated 12-14 inches, and mushroomed every time. The Hydroshock tested along side NEVER expanded and failed to go as far into the duxseal as the BT. We were using .45's, but I don't remember if they were Sigs or maybe a Taurus DA. Then congressman Pat Moynehan (sp?) pried apart the jacket of the BT and cried out of the viciousness of the doctored "flesh shredder", and the Talon was labeled evil because it looked scary, and eventually phased out into the SXT (Supreme eXpansion Talon), the jacket was no longer black, and the it was changed up a bit so even if the jacket was pried apart it wouldn't look like a buzz saw. It was only last year or so that the SXT was modified specifically for hunting, so according to the article I read, if has more penetration and controlled expansion for maximum wound channel and hopefully one shot quick and humane kills.
Please note that these are only my opinions and direct observations, so if you are a fan of something I have commented on but recommended against, please don't get mad, just let us know why you think you have a better way or item to recommend. We are here to find out what works and doesn't, so any corrections or comments are welcome and encouraged.

I have, infact, I use a 270gr speer gold dot loaded for me by Georgia Arms in my 444. I went out and bought a box of the 270gr in 44 and plan to do some penetration testing. what is the best medium to use for this? I have heard wet newspaper, phone books, and balistic gelitan, but the last option sounds expensive. Where would you buy that anyway? As to the Black Talon, I do have an old box of their 44 250gr load sitting on my shelf, I didn't know that Winchester's SXT is the same thing as the Black Talon rounds. surely something to think about

Ballistic gelatin is a reference to the consistency of the medium, so with the right formula and unflavored gelatin you can miz up your own, but you are going to need something to mold it in and keep it stable for the testing, so you may want to re-think your approach. Wet newprint/phone books are extremely heavy and must be soaked for a day sometimes longer, and there is much debate on whether or not this replicates anything but wet paper, and how many paper mache' game animals are you going to shoot this year? Even Duxseal has fallen out of favor, so if you are going to use anything, gelatin seems the favorite. A suggestion: place bones randomly in the test media, but make sure they are not cooked, as this changed the hardness of the bone and you get the wrong impression. This way, you can see if the bullet fratures, stops expanding, deflects, punches through, etc., and may give you a little more insight into real world performance. Also, you'll have to test by shooting from at least 50 yards away, and for a .44 mag, I'd say 60-70 yards will give you the best impression as to performance. I really like the gold-dot for street use, and I'm pleased they have now turned to the needs of hunters. This gives us more options, competition for our business, and helps a way of life and tradition continue in these times of anti-hunting politics.
Good luck, and I hope my comments were useful to you. Let us know what happens.

I have, infact, I use a 270gr speer gold dot loaded for me by Georgia Arms in my 444. I went out and bought a box of the 270gr in 44 and plan to do some penetration testing. what is the best medium to use for this? I have heard wet newspaper, phone books, and balistic gelitan, but the last option sounds expensive. Where would you buy that anyway? As to the Black Talon, I do have an old box of their 44 250gr load sitting on my shelf, I didn't know that Winchester's SXT is the same thing as the Black Talon rounds. surely something to think about


Use wild pigs for a test medium. They eat much better than old phone books :)

SFT,
Thanks so much for the info. I love learning about different things shooting related. When I run out of what I have (240g xtp) I think I might try the SXT for deer and either the 270gr gold dot or 250gr partion gold for hogs. Now I just need time to go to the range and actually shoot the thing, soon as my firesight set from williams comes in. Again, thanks for posting this site has been a great learning tool for me.

You are quite welcome Matt, and please post your results so I can evaluate my advice. Happy huntin'!

You are quite welcome Matt, and please post your results so I can evaluate my advice. Happy huntin'!

Just got back from the range with my 1894 and new Williams fool proof and Firesight front set. Took about 50rds of 240gr gold dot loaded by Georgia Arms ("Deer Stopper)", 25rds Winchester 240gr JSP, and 50rds Magtech 240g JSP. All cycled well with no hang ups at all. the Georgia arms was the most accurate clover leafing at 50yds. The POI of the cheap winchester JSP and the hot loaded Georgia Arms was about the same with the Winchester stuff just having more spread out groups. The Magtech shot a little lower and the groups were the worst of the bunch. I am sold on the Williams FP and Fire sight set up. I wasn't sure if I would like it, I have XS Ghost ring and new front blade on my 444 and to tell you the truth I don't know which I like better. I'm going to install a threaded ghost ring on the XS and then put in a Williams aperture, I think that will tell the difference. I took the aperture out of the Williams and fired a group at 50yds using it like a ghost ring. My groups were much tighter with the aperture screwed in; this makes me think I could probably tighten up my groups on the 444 with an aperture rear. The Williams was far easier to sight in and felt like it had more precise adjustments, and man was that front bead bright. But I do like the front post on the XS; I would feel more confident on shots past 100yds with the square front post. But with the 1894 my max distance is going to be 125, so thats not a big deal. I bought some glow in the dark paint to go on the XS front post, got it from Cabelas, this should help in the last few minutes of daylight. Its truely hard to say which sight I like better. The XS seams better for shots past 100yds but that is only with the small threaded ring you have to request from them and an aperture screwed in. (Hadn't tested this yet just my assumption) For shots under 100yds, the Williams Fool Proof and firesight front seem better. I meant for this thread to be an ammo comparism not a sight system one, but after my time on the range I felt it needed to be discussed. Didn't have time to test the 270gr Gold dots, Winchester SXTs, or the 240/300gr XTPs but thats to come.

mattpair,

By your post it appears as you plan on using over the counter ammo. I have 1894 in 44mag and know two others who also have. NONE of them like the same ammo as far as putting them on target. All have taken whitetail here in PA.

Two use over the counter ammo and one use handloads. Of the three one shoote the Federal 'Eagle' 180g HP good, another shoots only the standard Winchester (white box) 240 HP well so far, and mine the best I could do with factory was two inches at fifthy yards. I did only try three over the counter before going solely to handloading since I already handload.

In handloads I have never been able to get the 240g XTP to shoot well out of my rifle but the 300 XTP is the most accurate of all so far, go figure??? Of 240g stuff load for hunting deer the most accurate and proven handload is a bulk 240g HP over H110. This is only in my rifle though.

I guess what I am trying to tell you that you are going to have to sample to see what shoots good from you rifle. It may not be the more expensive or premiun stuff or it may be, or finally you may find many that do shoot well. The 44 Mag with any 240 or more bullet should work just fine inside 100yrds for deer.

mattpair,

By your post it appears as you plan on using over the counter ammo. I have 1894 in 44mag and know two others who also have. NONE of them like the same ammo as far as putting them on target. All have taken whitetail here in PA.

Two use over the counter ammo and one use handloads. Of the three one shoote the Federal 'Eagle' 180g HP good, another shoots only the standard Winchester (white box) 240 HP well so far, and mine the best I could do with factory was two inches at fifthy yards. I did only try three over the counter before going solely to handloading since I already handload.

In handloads I have never been able to get the 240g XTP to shoot well out of my rifle but the 300 XTP is the most accurate of all so far, go figure??? Of 240g stuff load for hunting deer the most accurate and proven handload is a bulk 240g HP over H110. This is only in my rifle though.

I guess what I am trying to tell you that you are going to have to sample to see what shoots good from you rifle. It may not be the more expensive or premiun stuff or it may be, or finally you may find many that do shoot well. The 44 Mag with any 240 or more bullet should work just fine inside 100yrds for deer.


Well, I am going with only over the counter stuff as I don't reload yet. And I have been trying different stuff, gives me a good excuse to go to the range. The Georgia Arms stuff is top right now, but I still have to compare with some 240gr XTP and 270gr Gold Dot possibly some SXTs if I get to go by the store and pick some up. I do know now that I will stay away from the Magtech stuff and that the cheap Winchester white box stuff has roughly the same POI so I can use it to practice with and not have to worry about changing my sight picture. While its true each rifle is different I thought there might be some ammo that across the board has worked well for people.

Well, I am going with only over the counter stuff as I don't reload yet. And I have been trying different stuff, gives me a good excuse to go to the range. The Georgia Arms stuff is top right now, but I still have to compare with some 240gr XTP and 270gr Gold Dot possibly some SXTs if I get to go by the store and pick some up. I do know now that I will stay away from the Magtech stuff and that the cheap Winchester white box stuff has roughly the same POI so I can use it to practice with and not have to worry about changing my sight picture. While its true each rifle is different I thought there might be some ammo that across the board has worked well for people.

I have shot 3 different jacketed bullets in my 1894 with many different loads of 4 different powders. All worked great. Not a big difference in accuracy at all. Light lead bullet loads work good. The only round I found I can' get to shooting is a hard cast heavy load. Marshal has me conviced a lap job is due and after hunting season it will be done.

**** ! I shoot Deer and woodchucks with a 44/40 with lead 200gr cast bullets and 200gr HP Hornady Jacketed bullets ! They all died ! What kind of critters are you guys shooting at that you need 300gr bullets ? Dead is dead ! JAGG