Taking my concealed carry class on Sat. and should have my permit in a little better than a month. I posted an inquiry (old single action shooter) about a month ago hoping to get some opinions regarding a lighter and more concealable handgun than my Ruger 45 LC Blackhawk, but with more wallop than my 22 Mag Single Six. I'm not crazy about semi-autos, not fond of double action either, but that's me and not logic speaking. During the last couple weeks I've handled and given serious consideration to some nice light short barreled 5 shot double actions, daydreamed about a 32 H&R Ruger Single Six, with birds head grip - either would carry okay and provide more oomph than a .22...but I'm beginning to rethink my priorities. I'd prefer a little bigger and heavier slug, but around the yard, or in my woods or fields, on the tractor or in and out of the truck my 22 Mag Single Six carries nice and is barely noticable when worn left side as a cross draw. I'd still like one year to shoot my deer with my 45 Blachawk, so in the Fall I just substitute it for the 22. The area I live in here in southern Maine is changing, with less farm and woodlot and becoming more suburban with each passing year. With those changes comes a new breed of neighbors, less hunters and less tolerance or understanding regarding handguns, especially when worn around town. I'm getting a concealed carry permit and beginning to think if I run out for groceries or into town that I need a weapon that won't really be too visible or distinguishable on my belt, or that won't raise eyebrows when I take the dog for a walk! Again we're back to a flat little semi auto, or a...derringer? I know they're inaccurate, have a lousy undersize grip, no useable sights - but they're flat, small and lightweight, easy to conceal - in a flap covered wallet type holster can barely be distinguished as a weapon, yet pack a heck of a wallop at close range.
I've pretty well decided on one in .45 Long Colt or .45/.410 and would just like some input from anyone who's owned or had any experience with one, especially the American Derringer or Bond. The Bond Arms 45/410 version weighs 21-22oz, 5 to 5-1/2" length, is available in a 3 or 3-1/2" (depending on 410 2-1/2" or 3" chambering), has a removeble trigger guard, and retails for $369-389. The American Derringer model 1 version weighs 15 oz., is 4.82" long, has a 3" barrel, is available in .45 LC or .45/410, and retails for $410-425. Their Model 4 weighs 16.5oz, is 6" long with a 4.1" barrel, is available in .45 LC or .45/410, and retails for $435-450, also available as M4 Alaskan Survival w/ top barrel in 45-70 retailing for $500-. At a step up sizewise they offer their Model 6 weighing 21oz, is 8.2" long with a 6" barrel, is available in .45 LC or .45/410, and retails for $475. High polish finish adds $25-32, oversixe grips an additional $55, extended warranty is $30/5 yr, $65/10.
Any experience out there? Bond Arms is a little less money, has additional barrels available at $139-159. They claim the trigger guard helps control - does it, is it a plus safetywise, or does it make it more difficult to get off a quick shot? Are the straight .45 Colt offerings more accurate than the .45/410 - not much rfling left after cutting a 2-1/2 to 3" chamber? Is either manufacturer's product superior to the other in fit or design? Why is American's 6oz. lighter than equivalent Bond? Any failures or problems out there? If the exposed traditional trigger isn't a drawback I'm inclined towards the American Arms Mod 4, maybe Alaskan Survival w/45-70 top barrel even. I saved a nice birdseye Maple board for 40 years, intending to saw some pistolgrip blanks out of it - maybe a pair of fitted o'size grips?
Give me a hand guys - I'm considering spending 1-1/2 times to double what I'd originally considered - need some input on these derringers! Thanks, Joe

I dont know anything about them but I would love one, which will never happen with the laws here. I would like to know if it is possable to hold onto one for the second shot or do you have to pick it up off the ground?

I dont know anything about them but I would love one, which will never happen with the laws here. I would like to know if it is possable to hold onto one for the second shot or do you have to pick it up off the ground?
Why am I picturing a Saturday morning cartoon here Aussie?? hehehehe :D mack

I've got some experience with derringers. Once owned a Davis O/U in 25 ACP that I carried jogging. Slow to fire, poor ballistics but was only priced $25. Thing finally self destructed by falling apart on my sister. She also has my other derringer this time a American Derringer Corp. Model 7 (I beleive). This is the ultralight model, weighing around 7 oz! Its chambering is 380 ACP and smacks your hand when you fire it. Slow to cock do the ergomonics and only accrucate at point blank range. Never had any experience with any of them in 45/410 or the Bond pistols. Size wise while they are flat, my NAA mini revolver is smaller and so is my FN Baby Browning in 25 ACP. I would rather carry a Kel Tec in 32 or 380 then the Derringers. Same ammo and higher round count. If you get a steel frame one then I would rather have say a Smith M60. But that's me for my needs of a concealed carry gun. Since price doesn't appear to much for you, I would suggest looking at Taurus DA 45 Colt snub nose.
Derringers have their use but to me not the only weapon that I'll be carrying. I used mine as a backup to my primary. The disadvantages being only two shots and slow firing and reloading. Advantages are compact and flat. (changing do to the small medium cal autos now). $.02

PS. Given what you posted I wouldn't mind a SA .32 loaded hot.

Better than nothing at all.... but I don't think I even want to try touching off a .45 Colt load in something that light!!!! Not without a helmet on....

There is a place for a derringer, that is, when you just can't conceal or carry anything else. Or maybe as a second gun in your back pocket... But if you can handle a 'regular' revolver or semi-auto, I think you'd be a lot better off.

Honestly..... I think that you need to go back to the double-action revolver. Just ignore the fact that it's double-action if you like. Get a snubbie .38 or .357, the titanium guns are great for carry, if it weighs much more than a single-six I'd be surprised.

That's a huge upgrade in firepower (not to mention accuracy). Even a 5-shot .38 is a great step up from a 1 or 2 shot derringer, the 7-shot .357s a real boost.

Besides, the larger revolvers make a much better club than a derringer when you run out of ammo :)

Or the Kel-tek. They are surprisingly well made and very concealable; likewise the Kahrs.

OK - if you just have to have a single-action, get a short-barreled Vaquero in .45 Colt, I think you might be able to get a 3 1/2" barrel as an option now (if not simple to have someone cut one down), then put the aluminum grip frame from a standard Blackhawk on it. Round-butt the aluminum grip frame if you like.

It'll be fairly light, but a world more controllable than a derringer in .45 Colt, and 6 shots besides.

Good luck in your search.

If you havn't shot one of the 45/410 derringers do so before you buy. They have a terrible recoil, hurt your hand and are slow to cock. If your looking for a concealable defense weapon look at all the small autos in 40 s&w. They offer good knockdown power, multiple shots and good controllability. my 2 cents.

I currently carry an AMT Back Up in either .40 S&W or 357 Sig. six shots in a package the size of a wallet, and just as easy to carry. The only problem you might have is that the only ones available now are used.

Lee L.

If you get a derringer, Go with 45 Colt/410 combo, Not just 45 Colt. If you do go with the Bond Arms, get the removeable trigger guard model, so that way you can decide which u like best, with the trigger guard or without. Altough I hear that the trigger guard does offer a little better control. I'd go with Bond Arms over American Derringer, because of the interchangeable barrels. You can switch calibers if you want to. But I wouldn't reccommend a derringer as a primary defense. Maybe it'd be ok as a backup. I Love my Taurus 617 snub nosed .357 magnum. You can get one for $300. If you insist on a .45, they make a .45 Colt snub nosed, too (the model 415 or 455 I think, but I can't remember.). Don't get Titanuim. They kick extremely hard, especially the .45 colt models (and YES I AM speaking from experience.). They'll give you a flinch and hurt your accuracy. The steel in the same model and caliber gun isn't that much heavier. Trust me.

Good Luck with your decision.


http://www.taurususa.com



Walter30-06:cool:

Owned one of the American Derringer 45/410's...got it in a rifle trade as a "sweetener".

Do take a hard look at them...are heavy, a bit fatter than they look like in pictures, and are not all that pocket friendly.

Are right about the lack of accuracy...the .45Colt is going a pretty good clip at the end of that long .410chamber, and that short secion of rifling doesn't really have much of a chance at accuracy. On a guess (from firing revolvers without barrels...bullets right out of the cylinder mouth) the lead bullets are moving about 500-570fps when they hit rifling and have all of 1/2" to start rotating.

Usefull pattern of the shot shell is pretty limited. Factory loads spread quickly...very quickly...doubt if the range of effect patterns greatly exceeds the better .44mag. shot shells. Did managed to do in a few snakes with it.

Even tried blown out .444marlin cases. Once blow out, they accept a .45cal bullet, and with 55gr. of FFFg, they are impressive LOOKING...recoil is up there, loud, and a GIANT jet of fire and cloud of smoke. Would tatoo the guy with powder at 5yards and within 3 yards, may set him of fire. Thought about it, and as I don't intend on shooting anyone in secret, the noise/flash/smoke are pretty big attention getters...and if I need to shoot in defence, am HAPPY to have the whole world take note of it and call the cops.

Hobbie,

I have a Davis O/U in 9x19mm with three inch barrels. I carry it loaded with an antipersonnel round in the first barrel and a hardball round in the second. About half the people who've ever shot this pistol have complained about the recoil. I'd surely test fire a .45 Colt before buying it. I carry my Davis when I can't conceal my Colt Combat Commander (.45 ACP) in the clothing I'm wearing that particular day.

First rule of gunfighting, "Bring a Gun!"

Lobo in West Virginia

Hobbie,
I like MikeG's advice. I have a 3-3/4" Vaquero on my CCW. It's the bird's head grip in stainless steel. It's surprisingly easy to shoot, even with heavy bullet H110 handloads.
It has the advantage that any assailant who looks down that barrel and sees the LFNGC with his name on it and four of her sisters poking their noses out their doors...
Sorry, I gotta go. I had an accident, just thinking about it!

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