This week, just for fun, I picked up a set of Lee Precision Limited Production/Pacesetter dies in .348 Winchester. At the same time, I ordered a Factory Crimp die for the .348 Winchester. The last Lee Products I purchased, beside the Lee Loader kit back in 1965 that started me off handloading, was a hand primer tool and three bullet moulds back in the 1980's. My personal prejudice was that everybody else's products were better than Lee's, afterall look at the price difference. So, during the ensuing years I collected stacks of reloading die boxes in various shades of green.

After disassembly and cleaning the Lee die set, I was pleasantly surprised to find that the internal finish of the full length sizer die had a better surface polish than I expected. In fact, it had a better polish with less distortion than the die in the pale green box I had been using that cost more than twice as much. Cases, both fired and new, slid into the die with little effort, and that neck expander button ironed out the dented necks of new cases effortlessly. Maybe because I lubed the inside of the case necks carefully, the decapping/expander stem never slipped once, but then I had cleaned the preservative coating off and tightened the collet down as per the instructions. The Lee tapered expander opened necks on the fired cases with no resistance or chatter, and the depriming pin always aligned dead center, unlike some pins mounted on threaded stems.

Lee uses a butyl O-ring to hold the die locknut in place after adjustment. While I had my doubts, the O-ring proved no problem holding the adjustment through several die changes. The secret seems to be using a wrench on the nut to tighten and remove the die instead of twisting the die body. Not having to use a allen wrench to lock the ring down with a set screw is okay with me.

The seating die uses an aluminum adjusting screw, also retained by an O-ring, to adjust the depth of the bullet seating punch. Once again, no lock nut to mess with and the seating depth remained constant through my loading session. While the die provided for a roll crimping function, I followed the instructions to eliminate crimping so I could try the factory crimp die. Lee also included the cartridge's maximum overall length so you can seat the bullet to the proper depth, important in loading the .348 Winchester that must function through a lever action. This little detail saved me looking up OAL data in the manual.

Lee also included a yellow powder dipper in the box that will produce safe loads with a narrow range of powders. A loading chart for the .348 Winchester with data for Hodgdon, Alliant and Accurate powders is printed on the instruction sheet. The chart refers to various Lee powder dippers that will produce the starting and maximum loads listed. Another feature not seen on the instruction sheets from other manufacturers is a dimensional drawing of the cartridge case, something you may never want, but if you do it's convenient to find without thmbing through a loading manual.

The kicker though is that Lee included the shell holder for the .348 Winchester with the dies. Lee did something really simple to improve their shell holder - they machined a ramp into the extraction groove. That little ramp made sliding the .348"s big old rim into the shell holder so easy and effortless, it alone was worth the price of the die set! It may not seem like a big deal, but my hands are numb from years of labor, shooting big-bore handguns and typing - that little feature made ol' fumble fingers a happy camper.

The Lee Precision die set cost $20.95, the Redding set $49.50, and the RCBS $46.80. Given that Lee includes the shell holder saving another $5.00 or more, the Lee set is a bargain. I plan to buy more.

axlenut

Oh Sure!!!

Now you went and did it. You let the secret out and now everybody is gonna want them. Axlenut, I could not agree more with you. In my 34 years of reloading, my favorite dies for both rifle and handgun are the Lee dies and for the reasons you mentioned. They work too well and cost too little. It's only once in a very long while that you get to have your cake and eat it too.

Bill

psssttt... let's keep it a secret though.

Axlenut...

That is a very good write up and how I see things... you are a lot more articulate with the details. I made the switch a little over a year ago after sampling a set. Now everything is red! A couple of nights ago and just for grins, I load some 444s with the Loader. I've got a bunch of ammo I'm going to shoot next week for the PMII and want one or more targets with this simple tool.

Michael

Love their collet dies.
cheers
CBK

Just like all of you I have had almost all positive results with Lee reloading stuff. the only things I have had problems with is when I bought some stuff second hand, "already fixed" as it were. One complaint I have about Lee Precision is their reloading manual- Mr. Lee makes himself an expert on everything often without any evidence. their reloading data is less than perfect too- No list of components used or what sort of firearm they were tested in- if at all. But I do have to admit that there is a lot of good information there too.

This week, just for fun, I picked up a set of Lee Precision Limited Production/Pacesetter dies in .348 Winchester. At the same time, I ordered a Factory Crimp die for the .348 Winchester. The last Lee Products I purchased, beside the Lee Loader kit back in 1965 that started me off handloading, was a hand primer tool and three bullet moulds back in the 1980's. My personal prejudice was that everybody else's products were better than Lee's, afterall look at the price difference. So, during the ensuing years I collected stacks of reloading die boxes in various shades of green.

After disassembly and cleaning the Lee die set, I was pleasantly surprised to find that the internal finish of the full length sizer die had a better surface polish than I expected. In fact, it had a better polish with less distortion than the die in the pale green box I had been using that cost more than twice as much. Cases, both fired and new, slid into the die with little effort, and that neck expander button ironed out the dented necks of new cases effortlessly. Maybe because I lubed the inside of the case necks carefully, the decapping/expander stem never slipped once, but then I had cleaned the preservative coating off and tightened the collet down as per the instructions. The Lee tapered expander opened necks on the fired cases with no resistance or chatter, and the depriming pin always aligned dead center, unlike some pins mounted on threaded stems.

Lee uses a butyl O-ring to hold the die locknut in place after adjustment. While I had my doubts, the O-ring proved no problem holding the adjustment through several die changes. The secret seems to be using a wrench on the nut to tighten and remove the die instead of twisting the die body. Not having to use a allen wrench to lock the ring down with a set screw is okay with me.

The seating die uses an aluminum adjusting screw, also retained by an O-ring, to adjust the depth of the bullet seating punch. Once again, no lock nut to mess with and the seating depth remained constant through my loading session. While the die provided for a roll crimping function, I followed the instructions to eliminate crimping so I could try the factory crimp die. Lee also included the cartridge's maximum overall length so you can seat the bullet to the proper depth, important in loading the .348 Winchester that must function through a lever action. This little detail saved me looking up OAL data in the manual.

Lee also included a yellow powder dipper in the box that will produce safe loads with a narrow range of powders. A loading chart for the .348 Winchester with data for Hodgdon, Alliant and Accurate powders is printed on the instruction sheet. The chart refers to various Lee powder dippers that will produce the starting and maximum loads listed. Another feature not seen on the instruction sheets from other manufacturers is a dimensional drawing of the cartridge case, something you may never want, but if you do it's convenient to find without thmbing through a loading manual.

The kicker though is that Lee included the shell holder for the .348 Winchester with the dies. Lee did something really simple to improve their shell holder - they machined a ramp into the extraction groove. That little ramp made sliding the .348"s big old rim into the shell holder so easy and effortless, it alone was worth the price of the die set! It may not seem like a big deal, but my hands are numb from years of labor, shooting big-bore handguns and typing - that little feature made ol' fumble fingers a happy camper.

The Lee Precision die set cost $20.95, the Redding set $49.50, and the RCBS $46.80. Given that Lee includes the shell holder saving another $5.00 or more, the Lee set is a bargain. I plan to buy more.

axlenut

Wel axlenut that was a really nice writeup on the Lee dies. I used to have all that green stuff, Had one of them big rockpucker presses and all the goodies to go with it. My son wanted to get into reloading and we lived and worked out of Phoenix driving Truck. All my reloading stuff was back in Idaho in storage.

I figured that I would save some money and get the anniversery kit Lee sold. It came with an O frame press, a scale, a powder measure, well everything you needed, even a reloading manual. I did need a set of dies so got them for everything we were shooting. Guess with powder, bullets, primers and the dies we had about $125 in the whole thing. This was less than I paid for the green press alone.

Well I thought that this "cheap stuff" would work for a while until I got home where all my "good" stuff was.

Not only did it load ammo as good or better the scale and powder measure was way more accurate and consistant than my "good" green stuff.

I did have one failure last year. I broke the handle on the auto-prime. After 8 1/2 years of squeezing that darned thing that cheesy aluminum handle broke. I called Lee and they sent me a replacement. When I ask if they wanted my credit card # the nice young lady said " why no, we will replace it with no charge"

I have one green box of dies in 8mm Rem mag and that is only because my local Lee dealer crapped out and ordered a set of 8mm mouser dies by mistake and the green ones were available locally.

That 125 doller investment has loaded thousands and thousands of rounds, Thier bullet molds have now cast half a ton of linotype into 44 mag bullets and now I'm casting 54 cal improved minnie's out of pure lead for the muzzle loader.

A couple of years ago after we moved back to Idaho I pulled all that green stuff out and put it in a yard sale. Got about three times what I paid for that "cheap stuff" and chuckled all the way to the bank.

I've found that you don't have to invest a lot of money to make really good ammunition.

If you get a chance take a look at Ranchdog's setup, sure is a lot of good looking red stuff on that beautiful bench. Only problem I have is that bench. I wonder what he did with the piano keys.

well you keep on loading and good luck with your new dies. Try some of their other stuff I sure like it.

I use Lee dies on a regular basis. I am split 50-50 between Green & red boxes with a few odd hornady thrown in.
I agree that Lee dies are worth the money and that the shellholder being included is a nice additional extra. I would rate Lee customer service & support as one of the best in the industry.
However I also agree about the Lee Reloading manual. It has been lawyered down to the point of being useless. their top loads are where most other manuals start. And worse yet...it is too cheesy to even include a short cartridge description with each rounds data.

All in all...I like their products and service and that outweighs the manual's shortcomings.

My $.02

swede

Axlenut I was pleased to read your writeup..I bought my first set the other day as well .454 Casull they were only 19.95 I really didn't expect much, when they arrived I opened the box and seen the round red container and I thought to my self what a piece of crap..they couldn't even put the dies in a decent box like Redding ..ect.. then I opened the little red box and was totaly amazed at the finish on these things and like you said all the extras the dipper the shell holder the load data and the OAL for the cart. I thought ok they look good but do they perform? Well I have to say that was the by far the best pistol loading experience I have had eveything set up easy and all the brass just glided through the dies. I never had any problems with the Decaping pin slipping either. I would say anybody who wants a GREAT!! set of dies at a good price take a hard look at Lee. I would not hesitate to buy again or more in the future.
Later Keith

Truth be told, I also found the Lee Shooter software to be a little light on features. Most of the content is available free from the powder companies, and the rest as freeware. I wouldn't recommend it. I'll take your word on the Lee manual. Writting a manual is a true art form, the only outfit that ever produced a world class instruction manual was electronic kit maker Heathkit. The Sierra Bullet software manual is better.

My experience with the Lee dies reminds me of when my mother offered me a taste of pizza. Now I hated cheese. To me cheese was poisonous, obnoxious, stinky and unfit for human consumption. My mother who was French Canadian always attributed this revulsion to me taking after my Irish father. None the less, because I was entering into adulthood, I figured a real man should be able to try something new. So, I summoned up the courage and nibbled on a wedge of her combination pizza. Wow! That was good! It didn't even taste like cheese! I ordered a whole pizza for me alone. I now wear many generations of pizza proudly around my waist.

My point is, "Why didn't you tell me that was so good?" Okay so now we have all discussed a product that does its job, costs less, and doesn't taste like cheese! Not bad, eh?

axlenut

Axlenut, great product review from a fellow shooter.

While I'm at it I might just toss in my hat. I love Lee products. Never had use for what everybody else does or buys or says....just tried the Lee products for their low price. You could say I "double dog dared" them. What did I have to lose? And if my 4hole Turret press didnt perform to my liking I could upgrade anytime.

Still love the press, it's handy and fast.



Perferator

Having been a cheap so-and-so pretty much all my life, I started buying Lee early, and have never stopped. My Turret press has something over 107,000 rounds thru it, and works just fine. The Lee Auto-Prime was kind of fragile early on, but was reinforced later, and my last one has been with me for 12 years, over 45,000 primers seated without a problem. While I have bought some other dies, I usually wound up replacing them with Lee dies when they were available. I have around 30 sets of dies, and have never had a problem with them. Lee may use a lot of cast aluminum instead of steel, but it has never affected the performance, and it doesn't rust, either! ;)

I gave all my green stuff away.

PJ the Frugal

I like Lee's Modern Loading II but understand everyone's comments... The data comes from the powder manufacturers but is sorted in an order that is most likely to succeed. I don't mind the lack of info about the cartridges as other texts are usually a little better at the history associated with the individual cartridges than reloading manuals. Lee used to have about a paragraph of info concerning the cartridge on the data sheets included with the dies but I've noticed on the newer sets I've bought that this information is no longer included.

Lee Shooter is a disappointment. When it came out I thought that may be they would continue to develop it and offer us some thing real nice for a few bucks but nothing has been done with it since it was introduced. It's a shame...

Michael

Happy to say that I don't have any red stuff....

somebody had to....:D

I have a few gray boxes and a few dark green boxes...

I 'd rather have my stuff made in the USA. I know it costs more. I have one of those jobs that thrives on Taiwan and China... it sickens me to see the stuff thats imported...

I don't know if the Lee dies are made here or not... Where I buy my reloading stuff, its pretty much all Dillon or RCBS. I'd rather have the Dillon, but they don't make a single stage press.

I don't want to start anything... just my opinion :D

Never had a problem with any Lee die set. I use lee dies for all my handgun loading, and all my military rifle calibers. The Lee decapping pin is the best thing going, when a berdan primed case gets mixed in. The decapper simply slides up thru the collet, instead of breaking, like on everybody else's dies.
I have heard complaints on another board about one shooter's experiences with Lee dies. he complained that the dimensions were off, poor machine work, etc. Hasn't been my experience at all. I DID have an RCBS .243 sizer that was too long, and cases wouldn't chamber in a rifle with proper headspace.
BTW, Lee dies are not made in the US, they are made in Wisconsin!

Maybe I have missed something. I have Lee dies for my pistols. I decap the cases with a RCBS Univeral decapping die, then tumble. I can't remove the pin from the Lee dies. RCBS,Redding will remove, so whats the problem? They are carbide dies.
Jim

Lee's decapper/case mouth expander is held in place by a collet. When it hits an obstruction, the decapper slides up thru the collet. Lock the die body in a vise, or hold a wrench on the flats. Then use a second wrench (1/2", I think) on the collet. It wil loosen, and then you can reset or remove the decapping pin.

75% of my dies sets are Lee, the rest is Green stuff now. They both work just fine. I have a hard time seeing how the Green guys justify the exhorbitant prices they want. Maybe it is for the extra machining to cut the knurling on the lock rings and nuts. That must be it because they sure don't outproduce anyone else's dies.

Thanks Charley
I will give it a try. I am ok withe the Lee turret press and the factory crimp dies.
Jim

I have lee dies and rcbs. i actually like the lee dies better. While my scale and powder measurer are quite accurate I like the rcbs because they are a little sturdier. Niot enough of a difference to convince me to buy them yet but mayeb if I find a good deal.

I've always used Lee equipment, including dies. Though I'm not one to form an attachment to a particular product (I simply buy and use what works for me)...one of the reasons for which I chose Lee stuff was the modest price. I have never been disappointed - and I have never had any problems with any of the Lee products. Everything I use are Lee products, right down to the case lube....with the exception of my bullet puller.

I've got some Lee dies. They all work very well. My only complaint is the bleeping boxes they come in. They take up toomuch room on the shelf.
The other guys all stack neatly, and then you have to find roon for the Lees.I've noticed the FCD;s come in a flat, rectangular box, so I know they are capable of making them. I just wonder what is the fascination with the red, round containers?

If you don't like the red ones, they do have them in round yellow ones! :D

I ain't tried them yellow ones, do they stack any better?

Naw - take up just as much room as the red ones! :p

Those new-style Hornady boxes take up way too much room as well.

Bye
Jack

I just wonder what is the fascination with the red, round containers?

They are made to hold a set of dies on a turret plate. I like how they sit on a shelf. I've actually bought the round "boxes" for the two-die sets that come in a flat box such as the 30-30 Ackley Improved and 356Win dies. I add the Rifle Charging Die and Factory Crimp Die to these sets to fill up the turret.

I've got some Lee dies. They all work very well. My only complaint is the bleeping boxes they come in. They take up toomuch room on the shelf.
The other guys all stack neatly, and then you have to find roon for the Lees.I've noticed the FCD;s come in a flat, rectangular box, so I know they are capable of making them. I just wonder what is the fascination with the red, round containers?

Easy solution - don't put them on shelves. Go down to the local home improvement warehouse (whatever) store and get one of the wire racks that is made to hang on the inside of a pantry door. Round die boxes fit perfectly! As a plus, the square ones fit OK too.

Hornady's giant die boxes are the only ones I really don't like.

I keep going to Lee for my reloading needs. Why spend more? I have Lee dies and they are just as good if not better then any other brand. My groups at the range with Lee dies are just as good as others who use other brands. I have spent less and am getting the same results and in some cases, better. I'll take Lee dies thank you.
30-30 Man

Normally, the Lee dies are a great value, but I've had a couple problems with them. Most recently, my 223 Rem Lee seater die was giving me fits. I would adjust it to the desired depth, measuring with my comparator, and then it would randomly seat .011" too deep like it was hanging up on something. I took the die apart, cleaned it up, lightly oiled it, and removed some metal shavings from where the steel seating stem dug in to the aluminum thimble. It seemed to fix the problem but nope, it did it again. After that, I said screw it and bought a new die.

I replaced it with an RCBS Competition seater, and except for the price, I couldn't be happier with the RCBS. It's much more precise and very easy to use.

I still use mostly Lee dies, but I don't give them a second chance if they don't work right. The problem with Lee dies is that for the cost of shipping and/or parts, you can just about buy a new die. Also, reloading dies aren't the best application for the use of aluminum. On the bright side, you're never out much if you aren't satisfied with the Lee products.

amndouglas

I started out with the anniversary start-up kit several years ago, and purchased a three die set for my '06, pacesetter for the 30 WCF, and carbide for the 44 mag.

While I have nothing but good to say for the hand priming tool, the press, or the function of the factory crimp/collet dies, I haven't had the best luck with their full length sizing dies nor the finish on the bodies of their other dies.

As a matter of fact, I'm selling the seating dies from my '06 and WCF on Ebay right now, minimum start bid of $3 just to get rid of them.

The bodies are somewhat oxidized, although they function fine. The problems I had with the FLS dies were connected to the fact that they use a collet to hold the neck sizing bell in place. I had many cases get stuck, pulling the decapping pin loose until I drilled lock-screws in place.

Honestly, even these problems may have stemmed from the lube I was using; I've found that the Hornady spray-on stuff doesn't work nearly as well as the Lee tooth-paste looking stuff that came with the kit, even through the RCBS FLS dies I now have. I got those free; one of my friends is an estate sale-aholic!

The trimming device is wonderful as well... it is very simple, and I have yet to buy a case tumbler because while I have the brass mounted in the drill to trim it I also chamfer/debur it, and use some fine steel wool with a little ether to polish the cases in less than a minute for all three things.

I swear by the collet dies and won't test a load using my FLS dies at all anymore. My rifle shoots 150 grain flat-based Hornady Interlocks into about 1.5 inches at 100 yards with 52 grains of RL-15, CCI Large rifle primer, and Remington cases FL sized and the same load goes into less than 1 inch when the brass is sized with the collet.

I do like being able to buy dies like Lee's RGB's for less than 10 bucks, especially for oddball milsurp rifles that I'm not gonna shoot much.
I would advise that you steer away from the Lee shotshell loader. Although very low priced, I would recommend spending 3 times as much for the MEC Jr. It's better built and produces better loads.
I did have a problem with Lee .30 Herett dies. The .30 Her. is a wildcat made by necking back a 30-30 case and then cutting the excess neck off. With the Lee dies, you couldn't form a case by moving the neck back because the die wouldn't accept the extra length. So in order to use the dies, you had to already have .30 Herrett cases. Since you have to make them, the dies were worthless. I bought RCBS dies, which would allow the excess neck to protrude and then could be trimmed to length. After contacting Lee about the problem, they basically told me that they didn't see a problem that needed correcting.
Regards
Woody

I never tried wildcatting with Lee dies but do own quite a few sets of them and have no complaints about them. I also have Lyman and RCBS too and can't complain about them either.

I see your point Woody regarding the Herret dies. Technically though, even with any other dies, you are supposed to use a form/trim die to make/form the case for the first time, then cutting off and filing the excess that protrudes out of the die on top. Possibly, Lee didn't make the die with the intention of using it this way. But it is good info to know regarding the 30 Herrett and Lee sizer if anyone is contemplating what you were looking to do.

As far as Lee dies. Basically, I use them with no problems and am split with Lee, Hornady and RCBS and a few Reddings and even a couple CH's. I tend to "build" die sets for what I need for wildcatting and such. Usually I'll mate a sizer die from one company but substitute a Hornady bullet seater as I feel they are one of the best seater dies out there unless you go to a "competition" style seater. The Lee is second because it is a floater too but I like the dropping sleeve in the Hornady which will hold the bullet in line better as it's run up into the die. The latest Lee set I have is for the 30Max wildcat.(30X357 Max)

Also like the Lyman M-Dies. I usually like to expand bottle neck cases from the top rather than with a button on the stem in some cases.

Regards

Lee equipment has been on my bench for almost twenty tears. I'm sure it will be there for the next twenty and beyound! I had a small problem with my Pro 1000 and Lee was on it like a bat after a midnight mosquito! They took care of it pronto!

It is nice to see affordable, reliable, precise equipment that is backed by excellent customer service!