Hi All,

I`m thinking about getting a NEF single shot synthetic in 45-70! I assume that these little rifles can handle level 2 pressures? Say, 28,000 cup! I`m not looking to shoot the **** out of this thing, just the odd occasional big load! I learned long ago that happiness with a 45-70 means shooting moderate cast lead loads! Anyone have any ideas about this rifle?
Richard

Yep..it will handle 28K with no problem. Are some that push it past this point with no troubles reported.

Depends on what you intend to use it for; even is your intent is hunting, BP ballistics seem to kill just fine.

You'll quit long before the gun will, I predict!!!!! Light gun + stout .45-70 loads = painful shoulder!!!!

Thanks all for the replies, I`m thinking about these loads primarily!

1. 30 gr. IMR4198, 405 gr. LFP, about 1350-1400 fps, I`ve shot this load in an H&R trapdoor carbine reproduction with great results, mild and low recoil, also very uniform and accurate!

2. 48-52 gr. IMR 3031, Speer 405 gr. JFP, 1600-1750 fps., definately a strong level 2 load, when one`s shoulder is up to it, can shoot very accurately and convinceingly!

3. 35 gr. IMR4198, 330gr. Lyman Gould Hollow Point express, about 1500-1600 fps, very accurate with moderate recoil, on the low level of 2.

4. 24 gr. 2400, Lyman 292 gr. LFP, maybe 1350 fps, a very cheap load to shoot, cast from wheel weights, best plinker, low recoil, bang,bang,bang!!

5. 42 gr. IMR4198, Sierra 300 gr. JHP, 1700-1800 fps, in a Marlin, this load shot 1 1/4", 5 shot, groups, fast and low recoil, very good shooter!

6. 38.5 gr. IMR3031, 405 gr. LFP, factory duplicate load, low pressure, not quite as accurate as load with 4198, but a differant look!

As you can see, there are only two real level 2 loads, mostly I`ll be shooting the lighter ones, it`s easier on the shoulder, ears, and pocket book!
Thanks again, Richard

I don't have personal experience with the NEF gun but one of the guys showed up at the range with one. He did reasonably well with it at 50 yards but at 100 yards he was really struggling to hit a 10" diameter target. He was shooting Remington 405 grain and Winchester 300 grain factory ammo.

From what I could see he wasn't flinching but he was really frustrated that he couldn't put anything in the center of the target.

Good luck.

linwin3000 :

The modern verions (H&A did make some 45-70's on their old "topper" frame) should handle the pressure of all those loads...your shoulder may disagree, as light weight rifles tend to come back at you a lot faster than heavey weight ones.

Better to not "catch" a flinch...it tends to cross over to all your other shooting once you develop one, even the light recoiling guns.

Had a Ruger #3 in 45-70...no doubt it is every bit as strong as a #1, but becasue of gun weight and solid butt plate, loads at upper levels were a bit past "abusive".

I do not think the reclio would be abusive from a shtanding position...but leaning over one at a low bench position will get your attention. Try a high bench for sighting in...may cost a few 1/10th in grouping, but you'll be happier at the end of the day.

Hi All,

I`m thinking about getting a NEF single shot synthetic in 45-70! I assume that these little rifles can handle level 2 pressures? Say, 28,000 cup! I`m not looking to shoot the **** out of this thing, just the odd occasional big load! I learned long ago that happiness with a 45-70 means shooting moderate cast lead loads! Anyone have any ideas about this rifle?
Richard
i have an nef with laminated wood stock.
my hunting load consists of 300 grn hp followed by 64 grns
of accurate 2495.
leaves the the barrel at 2100 fps with about 3200 ft. lbs of energy. also leaves my shoulder soft and tender lol.

Well ok, this morning I took the plunge! A local gun store had an H&R 1871 Buffalo Rifle that had been in stock for some time, he made me a deal I couldn`t refuse! Now, I`m the proud new owner of said riflE! It really is a nicely finished off rifle, there have been posts about the wood being hardwood or walnut, this one definately is black walnut with nice grain and nice checkering! Overall, a good looking rifle! Very good deal for the money! Now, I`ll load up a few pet loads and go shooting!!!! life is good!
Richard

I just purchased a H&R 1871 BC, as above, and I have a question over the rifling? In 2 differant reviews of this rifle, the reviewers state that it comes with deep cut rifling so as to be suitable for cast lead bullet shooting. Ok, I bought this rifle expecting just that, I was surprised when I found that the rifle actually has very, very shallow rifling!? Something akin to Marlins infamous "Micro Groove" rifling. In Speers supplement loading data on their Idaho Territory 405 gr. swaged LFP bullet, they talk about ' The lower velocity loads giving better performance in modern rifles with shallow groove and/ or narrow land rifling"! An obvious referral towards either this rifle or Marlin`s micro groove rifling! At another forum there is a post by a fellow who has the same problem, his plugged bore size was .456-.457, a tight bore. I have not plugged mine yet, but I suspect it will be the same. this seems to be all adding to having to size custom cast bullets to slightly above bore size and shooting at very moderate pressures and velocity!? My shoulder will like that, but it certainly takes away some of the versatility of this great cartridge!
Does anyone have any ideas on this? I mean, I don`t need to shoot fast, but I`m disappointed!?
Richard

I have a buffalo classic myself. Mine has the names Wesson and Harrington on the side. As far as the rifling in my barrel, there are 2 sets. One is very very shallow and the other is deep. Mine will give me 1.5 inch groups of 5 rounds at 100 yards with a tang sight. The rounds I was using were 300 gr SJHP from GA Arms if I remember correctly. It was listed as having a muzzle velocity of 1800 fps. I suspect it was a hair faster with the longer barrel.

A co-worker of mine has one of the H&R Buffalo Classic models (in 45-70 and it's quite accurate. Spooted for him a while ago and he was easily placing onto 6" targets repeadedly at 200 yrds. This was w/o optics.

Hey Snarf,

Does your BC have the shallow button groove rifling or the deep cut type? Did you slug your throat? And or barrel? Any favorite loads that the rifle likes? See Ya,
richard

Richard, my Buff ( and I think all of them) has the shallow rifling. Could be because H&R is owned by Marlin? Mine likes the Remington factory 405 just fine, and is accurate with 3031 or xmp5744. Haven't tried 2400 yet. I'm using 405 gr 20-1 lead bullets, or lyman #2 alloy with a hollow base bullet. No leading with either one.

Kurt

Richard,

My BF seems to have 2 sets of grooves for the rifling. One is shallow and one is deep. I dont have any other rifles to compare it to. As far as doing anythying extra to my throat or barrell I have not. I bought this BF used. What was done before I got it is pretty much unknown. I did think it was odd that I had to sets of grooves down my barrel. Actually I have seen a rugar #3 lately. I didnt have both guns right next to each other to compare but one set of grooves in my BF was similar to the grooves in the ruger and the other was very very shallow.

Snarf

Snarf,

How weird! You must have a very unusual 1871BC ! I slugged the bore on mine and found RH twist, 8 shallow grooves, with all the grooves measuring .005-.007 deeper than the lands! Measured with a calibrated blade mic. It has been suggested elsewhere that manufacturers use shallow groove button rifling because of lower cost and a high degree of machining accuracy. Meaning less cost to produce the rifle! I would prefeer the deep cut rifling!
Here is a question for you guys, it would seem that fire lapping would progressively wear some of the rifling out of these rifles! They don`t seem to have much to give up, how about it, would fire lapping abnormally wear these shallow groove rifles??
Richard

The lapping should wear the tops of the lands at the same rate as the bottoms of the grooves if done correctly.

I guess if one thought about it at all, wear in the lands and grooves would be the same! Duh!! Oh well, I am getting smarter as I get older, really!!!

It's a good point, though, because if you have undersized bullets, or the cylinder throats on a revolver are smaller than groove diameter of the barrel, then you WILL have problems lapping. If those conditions exist, then yes, the process will wear the tops of the lands down faster and that's a problem.

For factory ammo, the Rem. 405 gr. can't be beat. My BC really loves Hornady 350 gr RNSP bullets over 58.0 gr. of Varget for about 1900 FPS. I just shot some tonight, and had 1.2" groups and under at 100 yards. My BC is a bit unusual. I cut the stock straight, and added a Hi-Viz recoil pad. I switched the iron sights for a Leupold 2.5-8X40 scope. I also cut the barrel down to 27" length. I think this combo makes for a more friendly hunting rifle, without giving away much in the way of velocity.
Don