Gentlemen:

I think the production of a .22 LR round with a 40 grain flat point bullet at approximately 600 fps would sell very well.
The flat point for small game impact and low velocity for quiet operation out of a rifle would make a very useful round. The current 29 grain CB round nose by CCI is handy but lacks, for a better word, impact on larger small game such as rabbits.

What do you think?

Ralph

Maybe the Aguila 60gr. subsonics?

Maybe the Aguila 60gr. subsonics?

They run about 950-965 fps in the rifles I'v clocked them in. However (for me, these loads are for revolvers) can flat point them to nearly a full wad cutter and still have 43gr. of bullet. Does smack small game with some authority.

I do like the Aguila 60gr subsonic quiet and hard hitting. They put hurtin on crows at 70yrds with many more applications on game and varmints I'm sure. How do you go about flat pointing these to the wadcutter 43gr. you mentioned in above thread. I'm interested in that. Thanks

Gentlemen:

The rimfire round I was suggesting ( I have sent this suggestion to Winchester), is for a quiet load with more "authority" than the existing .22 CB rounds as marketed by CCI. Out of a 24 inch rifle barrel the load I am suggesting should make less noise than a handclap. The barrel itself, beyond the first few inches, would become an expansion chamber to muffle the powder blast at bullet exit.

As for the flat point, it should not be so large as to prevent feeding in repeating actions. Even a small flat point would enhance the stopping power on small game. I believe this load would be quite useful. The long rifle length case would allow feeding in repeating actions set up for this length. The case would also be long enough to prevent gas escape under the extractor/ejector on break action guns like the Rossi single shot. The "normal" bullet weight would not present stabilization problems either.

Ralph

kramsey:

Took a look at one of the tools sold for flat pointing .22LR ammo (and someone here will have to supply the name of those little file-dies...right now, it escapes me) and decided it was too easy to make some than to buy them... used sections of cut .22barrel, reamed and shortened. Idea is you put a round into the end of this little short (but well fitted) tube, and file off whatever sticks out the front of it....in the 60gr. example, I've set it to allow a good bit of lead to be removed, so I cut it before filing flat (try to not inhale or ingest the filings). I'm a little ahead the taper, with a flat of .20".

As you could guess, a bullet with that kind of shape is going to hold on to velocity just a little better than a ping-pong ball.

The easy way to get a .22LR to be quiet is to use a very long barrel...as in 30" or longer. YES, it does slow the round down by friction (.22LR's tend to get their highest bel. in barrels of 16-18", past that they start slowing down due to barrel friction).

Idea here is that the longer the barrel, the lower the pressure of the gas as it is released at the muzzle the quierter the blast...and the extra long barrel tends to make even HV loads sub-sonic which elimiates the "crack" of the bullet.

BTW: It's usually a "no-go" to put a 30" barrel on a standard semi-auto action without some serious action timing work...other wise, the case action tends to open while the bullet is still in the barrel and it gets REAL LOUD as the gas escapes out the ejection port.

I honestly don't know if there is a market for ammo of the type proposed or not...judging by the current market trends, if it isn't cheap-cheap "bulk box", accuracy tweaked match ammo, or some super fast "stingerish" type load, people seem to be staying away in droves.

I think the tool ribbonstone is talking about is the one Paco Kelly makes and sells Try http://www.leverguns.com/ this should get you in the ball park

Gun Runner

Ribbonstone:

I can understand your take on the market demand for low noise .22 rimfire ammo. Most shooters don't read forums like this or even shooting magazines.

In my experience very few hunters/shooters know anything about ammunition other than what they see on the Wal Mart shelf. When I mention quiet or near silent ammunition like CCI CB rounds, most have never heard of it - and won't unless it is on the display shelf at the 'Mart next to the bulk long rifle ammo.

Is it poor marketing?

Ralph

Gentlemen:

I think the production of a .22 LR round with a 40 grain flat point bullet at approximately 600 fps would sell very well.
The flat point for small game impact and low velocity for quiet operation out of a rifle would make a very useful round. The current 29 grain CB round nose by CCI is handy but lacks, for a better word, impact on larger small game such as rabbits.

What do you think?

Ralph


Try a HANNED tool....it allows you to put a meplat on the nose of lead .22 ammo.....makes a HUGE difference.....now...if you measure and cull by rim thickness and put the meplat on the head..you have ammo that is very accurate and hits really hard...

It would be interesting to see how a 40 grain flat point 22 LR would do at about 600fps. I wonder if it would be stable enough to shoot straight??

If you need a really quiet 22, think of adding a .22 spring piston air rifle to your collection. They are really quiet. Some of those are in the 600 fps range and I guarantee they are deadly on small game out to 20 or so yards. Head shots of course. At that distance without a scope, a decent air rifle should shoot a pattern you can cover with a quarter. Part of the fun is sneaking up close enough to have a sure shot.

I started out hunting on my own in my mid-30s (grew up in a no-guns family), going after rabbits with an 8 grain .177 flat head pellet out of a Beeman R-7 about 600 fps. Head shots only, and every single rabbit would jump up and do a back flip and be dead when it hit the ground. They were on average more effective for instant kills than 22 rimfire bullets. I think a 22 cal. airgun pellet would be even better. I'm thinking of the Gamo Hunter 220 air rifle that shoots a 15 grain flat point pellet @ 800 fps. I liked flat head pellets for head shots better than pointed pellets.

I haven't owned a spring piston air rifle or pistol for years and have been thinking about getting one of each again. My best firearms shooting was the years I was shooting spring piston pellet guns about 200 rounds per week inside my house after the kids went to sleep, into a homemade backstop packed with childrens' modeling clay. That trapped all the pellets. I know how many I shot because I flattened the empty pellet tin lids with a hammer and tossed them in a drawer. At the end of one year I had 20 flat tin lids. Multiply that by 500 pellets per tin and you discover I shot 10,000 pellets that year. Cheap flathead .177 pellets are about $5 per tin. So for about $100 without having to put any gas in the car, I got in 10,000 practice rounds. Anyone would get better doing that.

Take the cci cb long and put a flat point on it ! It moves at about 750fps ! For live game i prefur high velocity HP's ! I have shot HV 40grain .22rf at rabbits and they ran away after letting out a scream ! Shot squirrels with the same at 25yds 3 times and they were still running ! Velocity and HV works the best with RF ! I went to a 32/20 for small game it is more humaine ! JAGG

Hi Jagg,
> Take the cci cb long and put a flat point on it !
> I went to a 32/20 for small game it is more humaine!

I really enjoy small game hunting, and have done a fair bit with light cast loads in 30-40 or 30-06. Something like Lyman 3118 has a big, flat nose and drops them quickly and silently, even at very low velocities.

Second best has been a Rem Rolling Block in .32 RF Long: No BANG or even a CRACK!. Just a quiet 'snap' like a twig breaking, and even big fox squirrels drop with a 'thump' and never twitch, but the Navy ammo is impossibly inaccurate, and the old Winchester ammo is hard to find, and bloody expensive. I'm having a .32-20 built on a Cadet Martini, but I'm also considering a .32 CF long. Any thoughts?

Spent today trying out a whole mess of quiet .22 types, including Colibri, Super Colibri, CCI mini-caps, CCI CB caps, Rem subsonics and the like. Not a single one would group in less than 4 inches at 50 yards, and drop (from a 'normal') sight setting was 6 to 18 inches, though they are great fun at rock throwing distances. This in a rifle that shoots most .22's (even Stingers) like they were lasers. How anyone can use them for squirrel head shots any further than 15 or 20 yards is beyond me.

Molly

CCI did make a round called the SGB (small game bullet) it was a low velocity flat nose bullet. I tried one box on squirrels and loved them so much I ordered a case, I still have about a brick and a half. I guess they still make them I havent looked in a while because I havent needed any.

>CCI did make a round called the SGB (small game bullet) it was a low velocity flat nose bullet.

That's neat!! I was not aware of them, and appreciate your mentioning them. I found several good reviews on the internet, and they're still in production. I'll give them a try if I cna find some, but man, they're priced surprisingly high at ~ $4 / box. Wonder why? I see no obvious reason they'd be significantly more expensive than other .22's. Mebby I'll go ask CCI.

But thanks again.

Molly

KBmoly ! If you are going to make a 32 long cf then use the Smith and Wesson long round ! But with a 32/20 you can easly load down to a 32 rf or and of the CF longs ! I use special low velocity pure lead alloy round ball loads for much of my squirrel hunting but switch to light cast bullets for longer shots ! It is suprising what can be done with a 32/20 once you get one to group with your loads ! JAGG

>KBmoly ! If you are going to make a 32 long cf then use the Smith and Wesson long round !

Oh, of course. Never even considered the .32 Long Colt. Well, that's not true either; I've got a Rem #4 rolling block in .32 RF that I picked up a spare breechblock for, and converted it to CF. I've also got a couple of boxes of the colt ammo, but my real achievment was reloading the .32 long colt for use in the rolling block. I had a pretty slick system of carrying a shirt pocket full of loaded cases, that were topped off with a beeswax wad instead of a bullet. I carried the other shirt pocket with some Lyman 3118 slugs sized to .312, cast of wheelweight metal. In use, I just dropped a slug in the chamber, and followed it with the loaded case. Slower than a .22 semi-auto (BG), but VERY effective.

But I have a passle of .32 S&W Long pistols that I load for, and the same caliber in a rifle is a real natural.

>But with a 32/20 you can easly load down to a 32 rf or and of the CF longs !

Yeah, but the same statement can be made of the 30-40, 30-06, etc. I've done it, and the guns are heavier, but it's still a blast. But the bigger cases are harder to keep the loads quiet, and the accuracy consistent. That's why I'm leaning toward the .32 S&W long. I only have two .32-20's: One is a S&W M&P revolver of minimal value on a squirrel hunt. The other should have been the answer to my dreams: A Cadet Martini in .32 S&W Long. But I left all my gunsmithing tools behind at one point or another in several job-related moves. The hack that did the work didn't even have the smarts to polish a drill bit for the chamber: He tried to cut it with a boring bar. Naturally, it grabbed and took a chunk out of the side of the chamber that couldn't even be cleaned up with a .32-20 reamer I still had. I'll be replacing the barrel, but the caliber is still up for grabs. I'm leaning toward the .32 long, with the idea that the .32-20 reamer is not going to go away if I need it.

>I use special low velocity pure lead alloy round ball loads for much of my squirrel hunting but switch to light cast bullets for longer shots ! It is suprising what can be done with a 32/20 once you get one to group with your loads !

Interesting. One of the things I want to try is a patched round ball in the .32 S&W Long (or the .32-20): Say, something like 2 grains of bullseye with a #1 Buckshot (.30") wrapped in a linen patch, as if .32 case were a muzzleloader barrel. Is this anything like what you're doing?

kbmoly

Gentlemen:

I think the production of a .22 LR round with a 40 grain flat point bullet at approximately 600 fps would sell very well.
The flat point for small game impact and low velocity for quiet operation out of a rifle would make a very useful round. The current 29 grain CB round nose by CCI is handy but lacks, for a better word, impact on larger small game such as rabbits.

What do you think?

Ralph


try the Hanned tool..it works great

KMoly ! I have used the patched round ball in the 32/20 on squirrels and it didn't work out at well a pure lead RB ! Try 231 for a powder charge it burns cleaner then bullseye and is more accurate ! Squirrels are tough to kill that is why in a reduced load i have to use pure lead ! To give you an idea of this , i was using W.W.alloy in both RB and bullets and 2 to 5 hits in the chest and back between the shoulders a 25 to 30 yds didn't bring the squirrel down ! the balls and the bullets would go under the skin and go around the rib cage and out ! Even a hit in the chest a under 30 feet with a lyman 75gr pointed bullet cast of W.W. skid around the ribs and went out the back ! Pure lead grabs and smacks the critter dead ! JAGG

Hi JAGG,

>I have used the patched round ball in the 32/20 on squirrels and it didn't work out at well a pure lead RB !

I don't understand. The buckshot I was planning to use IS pure lead. Am I missing something?

Try 231 for a powder charge it burns cleaner then bullseye and is more accurate !

Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try.

> i was using W.W.alloy in both RB and bullets and 2 to 5 hits in the chest and back between the shoulders a 25 to 30 yds didn't bring the squirrel down ! the balls and the bullets would go under the skin and go around the rib cage and out ! Even a hit in the chest a under 30 feet with a lyman 75gr pointed bullet cast of W.W. skid around the ribs and went out the back !

Holy mackerel! Five hits in the chest, and the squirrel was still moving? Are your squirrels armor plated or something? The squirrels around here can be brought down with a single judiciously placed airgun pellet. Dunno the velocity at impact, but starting out at ~500 or 600 FPS, it can't be too impressive at impact. The pellet only weighs about 7.5 grains, and has a flat nose. Your RB would have a lot better ballistic coefficient, and should deliver a lot more energy if it starts at a similar velocity.

I take a back seat to nobody in my admiration of the tough little buggers. I was once skinning one with a dull knife, and decided that the tin shears from my shop would be a better way to go. I couldn't believe it, but that squirrel's skin actually turned the snips, and wouldn't cut! But I've still never encountered anything like your results. What kind of powder charge are you using? Any idea of the penetration in soft pine? My best guess is that you were using a VERY light load indeed.

Regards,
kbmoly

Velocities were from 900 to 1000fps ! Most buckshot i have has antimony in it ! I had to cut the squirrels open to find out what was happening ! The RB loads were developed so as not to carry to far past the trees with danger to people as a 22rf will do ! Be glad Squirrels and Marmots don't grow to be the size of bears or we would need a Bazooka to bag them ! Ps Martini with 32/20 works fine as is !JAGG

Well Jagg,

900+ FPS should sure do the job. How you managed to shoot one five times without killing it is beyond me. I've never experienced anything like it. Or even close to it.

Your logic about the greatly shortened danger range of the RB is dead on, and is much the same logic I was going with. I think it makes good sense.

BTW, I believe all modern buckshot is swaged, so the alloy doesn't really have much effect on the hardness as it would if they were cast. For example, the way antimony hardens cast lead is mostly by forming little fibers called dendrites. These lock together (on a molecular scale) and give the impression of greater hardness ot the soft lead that is trapped within. It's sorta like a sponge making water seem harder and less liquid. The water doesn't really change, and neither does the hardness of the lead - though intermetallic alloys like tin and antimony work slightly differently.

Point is, when the lead is swaged, the dendrites are broken up and don't have a gross structure any more - sort of like water with a few flakes of ground up sponge. So - within reasonable limits - SMALL quantities of antimony won't make the buckshot significantly harder than pure lead. Tin's a little different story, but that's not a factor here.

Sure sounds like you and I would have a good time sitting around a campfire though ....

Regards,
kbmoly

KBM ! Try to rechamber for the 7.62X39 ak round that should save your barrel by cleaning up the chamber ! Or cut the chamber and and set the barrel back ! I know of a number or guys who have had their new barrels ruined by backyard gunsmiths ! I have been looking at the prices of new barrels also and i don't like them ! Don't they know that there is no inflation ! Glad i bought barrels way back when we had inflation , they were cheaper then ! Good luck !JAGG

>Try to rechamber for the 7.62X39 ak round that should save your barrel by cleaning up the chamber !

Yeah, I'm kinda leaning that way myself. But I'll have to find one of Bob Snapp's rimless extractors. I think a friend has one that he's not using ...

kbmoly

I've got Snapp's addy if you want to contact him directly. Send me a PM.

Super nice guy and a master gunmaker.

I've got Snapp's addy if you want to contact him directly. Send me a PM.

Super nice guy and a master gunmaker.

Thanks! Be happy to if I knew what a PM was. Or how to do it.

kbmoly
(obsolete old curmugedon)

My apologies.

A PM is a Personal Message. At the bottom of this post you should see a few little boxes, one will have "profile", another will have "pm", another will have "email", etc...

Just click on the "pm" box to send a message directly to me, instead of through the board.

But I will just post Bob's info here. I don't think he would object.

Robert J. Snapp
6911 E. Washington
Clare, MI 48617
(989) 386-9226

alyeska338

This is doubly embarrasing; first, because I didn't have the mother wit to look around and had to be led like a child, but also because I have corresponded with Bob snap in the recent past, and had misplaced his information. Thanks for straightening me out.

Bob Snap was one of a number of enthusiasts who was contributing ideas and suggestions to an effort to put the Martini (Francotte Cadet and a mid-size version) into commercial production, and I had the privilege and pleasure of discussing any number of possibilities with him.

Unfortunately, the fellow who was going to actually manufacture the actions has had some serious business reversals, and it looks like the project will not come to fruition.

Regards,
kbmoly

I remember reading some years back i think by a gunsmith about taking a 22rimfire bolt action and being able to convert it to shoot 32s&w longs so long as pistol loads only were used ! As the pressure levels may even have been lower then the rimfires ! JAGG

I am surprised that the Remington Sub-Sonic is not pushed here. The boys down here swear by them. They seem to work well in autos that have the bolts lightened up a little also. The bullet is hollowpoint and soft. Even at the slower velocity, they mushroom. They seem to be a very ballanced round.....James

I remember reading some years back i think by a gunsmith about taking a 22rimfire bolt action and being able to convert it to shoot 32s&w longs so long as pistol loads only were used ! As the pressure levels may even have been lower then the rimfires ! JAGG

You know, that's an interesting thought. It really doesn't take much by way of lockup or chamber thickness to 'hold' a .32 long faactory round, so I'm sure it could be done safely. In fact, Herters used to sell a typical .22 bolt rifle that only had the handle for lockup, and it was also available in .222 Remington. Exactly the same action, with allowance for CF vs RF. Pinning an old milsurp .303 barrel into a typical .22 action would be a snap. But it sure would be a pain to weld up and redrill the bolt for a new CF firing pin. Hmmm. I suppose I could just turn the .303 barrel off center to compensate, and handle it that way. Cutting out the bolt face would be a snap, but the extractor might take a bit of work, depending on which rifle I chose for the project. ... Interesting thought. The only serious problem might be getting it to feed well from whatever clip you select. For that matter, there aren't too many autoloader clips for the full length .32 Long. It could be a fair bit of work to solve that problem. Sounds like a great project gun. I might have to take a shot at it when my life becomes a bit more settled.

Thanks for the thought.

Regards,
kbmoly

I second James Gates' vote for the Remington Subsonics, as would some crows and gophers. They're quite accurate too.

Bye
Jack

I was thinking more in line with an old savage single shot ! The kind where you pull the cocking knob back to fire ! The firing pin shaft is centered and you would only have to center drill a hole in the bolt and relocate the pin head to center fire ! Other wise try a rifle made for the 22 hornet ! I have not seen these remington sub sonic rimfires !b Are they like the CCI long CB rounds ? Trying the aguila 60gr sub sonic . but not at longer range as i was told that they don't stabilize to well ! But they might tumble on a rat at close range ,anyone used these yet ? JAGG

I was thinking more in line with an old savage single shot ! The kind where you pull the cocking knob back to fire ! The firing pin shaft is centered and you would only have to center drill a hole in the bolt and relocate the pin head to center fire ! Other wise try a rifle made for the 22 hornet ! JAGG

Hmmm. That would make it a lot easier, but I don't know which model you are referring to. Got a model number or name?

As for altering a .22 Hornet, that's too nice a cartridge to load with a cast bullet for squirrels. 'cides, I'd rather build the .32 Long rifle with the money than buy a CF and then have to rework it, unless i found something with an appropriately small action and a corroded bore that could be picked up for the cost of the action.

Regards,
Molly

3grains of unique and a 44gr cast bullet does nice on squirrels in a 22 hornet all the way to 100yds ! Savage makes a 340 in 22 hornet as well as 30/30 . You could pick one up cheap ! But the old pull back on the nurreled knob to cock single shot rimfires would be a lot lighter to carry in the hills and cheaper . Savage ,sears and at one time most makers had them made ! JAGG

3grains of unique and a 44gr cast bullet does nice on squirrels in a 22 hornet all the way to 100yds ! Savage makes a 340 in 22 hornet as well as 30/30 . You could pick one up cheap ! But the old pull back on the nurreled knob to cock single shot rimfires would be a lot lighter to carry in the hills and cheaper . Savage ,sears and at one time most makers had them made ! JAGG

Jagg,

I'm under the imprerssion that Savage discontinued the M.340 some 5 or 10 years back. Values for the hornet version have skyrocketed lately around here, even if I wanted to tear one down to make a .32 out of it. I do have one in 30-30 out in the shop, but looking it over, I think it would be a nightmare to convert, even though it is already CF. Altering the bolt face and extractor to function properly would be a real job, even if there was an easy way to make it feed.

I've also got one of those "pull back the knurled knob' .22's. The firing pin in it is NOT centrally located.

But now that you have me thinking about it, it would be simplicity itself to pick up an old junk break-barrel .410 and either sleeve the barrel, or just cut the old barrel off and weld a .32 barrel on. The extractor would be easy to build up. I'm going to have to stew about that for a little while.

Molly

Just for starterstake the 30/30 and buy an adapter for ot to shoot the 32s&w round or modify and adapter ! I have one that takes the 30 carbine ! ust to see if you would like the 32s&w to start with ! 410 idea is good also !JAGG

Just for starters take the 30/30 and buy an adapter for it to shoot the 32s&w round or modify an adapter ! I have one that takes the 30 carbine ! Just to see if you would like the 32s&w to start with ! 410 idea is good also !JAGG

Oh, Geeze! Talk about being too close to the forest to see the trees! That's a GREAT idea! I KNOW I'll like the .32 S&W because I dearly love my little Rem #4 in .32 RF, but decent ammo is tough to find. That Navy Arms stuff is pure garbage: I get foot diameter groups at 50 yards, while two or three generation old Winchester ammo will touch a quarter as long as I do my share. I've thought about rechambering it, but it's in too nice a condition to ruin for future generations.

I shouldda thought of it, but I didn't. Thanks for the idea.

Molly

K M ! I think i remember that some years back some out fit was making Center fire breech blocks for the model 4 roller ! Or was converting old ones that they had in stock for sale that they had converted ! You might want to look into this as you will still have your RF block and not loose any collector value on the rifle ! SGN's or one of the other adds !JAGG

K M ! I think i remember that some years back some out fit was making Center fire breech blocks for the model 4 roller ! Or was converting old ones that they had in stock for sale that they had converted ! You might want to look into this as you will still have your RF block and not loose any collector value on the rifle ! SGN's or one of the other adds !JAGG

Jagg,

I didn't know someone was making CF breechblocks for the #4, or I wouldn't have made my own. Trouble is, it's of limited usefulness: The .32 long RF chamber will only accept .32 Colt (not S&W) rounds, which are not exactly renowned for their accuracy. And quite properly so, if my own experience is any guide.

That left me with two options:
1) I could rebarrel, using something like a 7.65 barrel turned to match, and chambered for the .32 S&W Long (May still do that, but I have a tendency to experiment, and the #4 doesn't have that great a safety margin ..) ... or ...
2) I could reload the .32 Colt shorts and use a cast bullet with them, dropped into the chamber ahead of the case. The case, of course, had a wax wad to hold the powder in place.
(The .32 Long Colt case didn't leave room for the cast bullet.) This actually worked pretty well, but it was a pain in the BLEEP, with one shirt pocket full of loaded cases, the other shirt pocket full of sized (unlubed) bullets, and a trouser pocket for the fired cases.

I do have one of those Uberti #2 action Rolling Block pistols that I've toyed with the notion of making into a .32 S&W long rifle, but it probably isn't going to happen.

If you come across that advertisement for the CF breechblocks, drop me a note. I may still be interested ...

Thanks,
Molly

I'm not familiar with some of the .32 mods you guys are talking about, but another consideration for a slow, heavy .22 bullet is that several barrel manufacturers make barrels for the Ruger 10/22 specifically for the 60gr Aguila rounds. It has a 1:9 twist to stabilize the bullet. I don't shoot them enough to justify the money, but that's another option. I also don't know whether the barrels are offered for other rifles, but it might be worth checking out...

Just my $.02

I'm not familiar with some of the .32 mods you guys are talking about, but another consideration for a slow, heavy .22 bullet is that several barrel manufacturers make barrels for the Ruger 10/22 specifically for the 60gr Aguila rounds. It has a 1:9 twist to stabilize the bullet. I don't shoot them enough to justify the money, but that's another option. I also don't know whether the barrels are offered for other rifles, but it might be worth checking out...
Just my $.02

You make an interesting point, but that would be defeating the purpose. You see, the problem is one of improving the 'huntability' of the round. The .22 LR does not lack lethal potential, but it gains it at the expense of higher velocity, considerable noise and torn-up squirrels.

Shoot a squirrel with a .22, and you have a pretty loud bang that puts everything in earshot in hiding for 20 minutes, and a lot of damaged meat. And while the wound is almost always lethal, as often as not you also get a lot of flopping around as the squirrel bleeds out. They're TOUGH little buggers!!

Shoot a squirrel with a .32, and you have a noise like a rotten twig snappping. It doesn't alarm anything more than 10 or 20 feet away. All you hear is 'snap' from the shot and 'thud' from the squirrel hitting the leaves. And not moving. And not torn up either.

The .32 does suffer by comparison with the .22 in one respect only: Trajectory. But if you keep your shots inside 60 yards (and when did you last shoot one further than that?), the trajectory is fine for hunting purposes.

Regards,
kbmoly

Well, I've learned something today. I tried the Aguila and noted that it was very quiet from a 25" barrel (60 gr. @ 800 fps, can you say .32 ACP?). I also noted that it knocked steel plates off posts with more authority than 40 gr HV rounds, suggesting that they retain more energy downrange. No surprise there either. BUT they keyholed in every gun I tried them in, including Savage and Marlin rifles and a Ruger auto pistol.

I had no idea I could buy a 1:9 barrel for a .22 LR. With that, and one of those rigs you use to file the points flat, some serious quiet shooting can happen.

Not that I knock the .32s. My .32-20 and I get along just fine. But, like pretty much everyone else, the .22 LR was my first love.

Well, I've learned something today. I tried the Aguila and ... they keyholed in every gun I tried them in, including Savage and Marlin rifles and a Ruger auto pistol.

Yeah, that's what I keep hearing. I don't know if the 1-9" twist will solve it, but even if it does, I just can't see a gun for one single type of round. What do you do if it goes out of production, or they change it somehow?

molly

CCI did make a round called the SGB (small game bullet) it was a low velocity flat nose bullet. I tried one box on squirrels and loved them so much I ordered a case, I still have about a brick and a half. I guess they still make them I havent looked in a while because I havent needed any.


click:
CCI has the middle ground covered. Our excellent Small Game Bullet (SGB) (http://www.cci-ammunition.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=6&s2=15&pg=3)


click:
SMALL GAME BULLET (SGB) 22 LONG RIFLE (http://www.cci-ammunition.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=3&pg=18&prod_id=7)

Pellet rifle solves some legal issues around the neighborhood as well as being effective. good thought!

click:
CCI has the middle ground covered. Our excellent Small Game Bullet (SGB) (http://www.cci-ammunition.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=6&s2=15&pg=3)


click:
SMALL GAME BULLET (SGB) 22 LONG RIFLE (http://www.cci-ammunition.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=3&pg=18&prod_id=7)

Thank you so much! JP
Just what the Doc ordered!

I have been taking a few squirrels with CCI shorts. I have to be careful with bullet placement.

I have also taken squirrels with my Beeman pellet rifle. It is deadly, but I am saving for a 25 caliber that has a little more...."smack". Chuckwagon

CCI did make a round called the SGB (small game bullet) it was a low velocity flat nose bullet. I tried one box on squirrels and loved them so much I ordered a case, I still have about a brick and a half. I guess they still make them I havent looked in a while because I havent needed any.
yeah i jsut found some of these too. they aare designed to break into three perfect poarts upon impact. they also are tack drivers, i have a good pic of their group at rimfirecentral un der a marlin string called mod 60 pics and stuff. but i've ony found them once, and a guy at collectors firearms here in housotn , who is their ammo buyer, said that cci stopped making them, so buy them up whem you see them.

i thiink aguila makes two rounds, one is called colibri and the other is super colibri, they fire off of the primer and are powderless. one is about 600 fps , the other is about 400 fps. the 400 fps , whil eshooting them ou t of a snubby revolver, at 10 yards, on targets stapled to that cheapy press boarde stuff, were actually bouncing back to me!