Ok, here is the problem. When loading .45 Colt ammo for my M92 .45 Colt rifle the COL varies by as much as .019 between some of the cartridges, with most being between .004 and .007. I have trimmed all the brass to the same length and made sure to be consistent with the seating stroke. I am not seating and crimping in the same stroke. The only thing that I can think of is that the bullets are not consistent. They are Hornady 250 gr XTP's HP’s. I have measured their over all length and have noticed .002 inch difference, but measuring the length from the top of the crimping grove to the top of the bullet can give big differences, some times as much as .021 indicating that the crimping groove is not consistent on the bullets. I wouldn't think that Hornady XTP's would be this inconsistent, as I have always heard good things about them. Has anyone else noticed this, and does this sound like the cause of my COL problems? Also, is this anything to be concerned about in my lever action rifle? I have fired some of the rounds through this rifle and it seams to shoot accurately.

Ok, here is the problem. When loading .45 Colt ammo for my M92 .45 Colt rifle the COL varies by as much as .019 between some of the cartridges, with most being between .004 and .007. I have trimmed all the brass to the same length and made sure to be consistent with the seating stroke. I am not seating and crimping in the same stroke. The only thing that I can think of is that the bullets are not consistent. They are Hornady 250 gr XTP's HP’s. I have measured their over all length and have noticed .002 inch difference, but measuring the length from the top of the crimping grove to the top of the bullet can give big differences, some times as much as .021 indicating that the crimping groove is not consistent on the bullets. I wouldn't think that Hornady XTP's would be this inconsistent, as I have always heard good things about them. Has anyone else noticed this, and does this sound like the cause of my COL problems? Also, is this anything to be concerned about in my lever action rifle? I have fired some of the rounds through this rifle and it seams to shoot accurately.

That is a good bit of variation, but so long as (1) you aren't at the ragged edge of permissible pressure and (2) the OAL of the longest still allows feeding through the action you shouldn't have a safety or reliablity issue.

Can't belive that that kind of variation will do a bit of good for accuracy. Not normal of hornady, and if you contact them, they may offer an exchange....won't hurt to ask.

Seating bullet doesn't "know" anything but the length of the finished round...so yes, the disctace from the crimp to the bullet's nose is the only thing the die senses.

In my limited experience I have seen this with Hornady bullets. They are the best for the money I have used though and Carrol, there tech guy is very helpful. I wrote him last year about a box of 165 gr. Interlock SP 30 cal I bought last year that was a noticable different shape from the previous box. I did not get a response but the bullets shot fine. All other inquiries I have made were answered quickly. They even sent me data pages on loads I asked for, copied right out of the current addition.

I don't understand the OAL thing though. That should be consistant with your seating die. It can't vary. My concern was the seating to the lands and the difference there. The conture of the bullet above the ogive would matter there , right. That was my concern.

Ok, here is the problem. When loading .45 Colt ammo for my M92 .45 Colt rifle the COL varies by as much as .019 between some of the cartridges, with most being between .004 and .007. I have trimmed all the brass to the same length and made sure to be consistent with the seating stroke. I am not seating and crimping in the same stroke. The only thing that I can think of is that the bullets are not consistent. They are Hornady 250 gr XTP's HP’s. I have measured their over all length and have noticed .002 inch difference, but measuring the length from the top of the crimping grove to the top of the bullet can give big differences, some times as much as .021 indicating that the crimping groove is not consistent on the bullets. I wouldn't think that Hornady XTP's would be this inconsistent, as I have always heard good things about them. Has anyone else noticed this, and does this sound like the cause of my COL problems? Also, is this anything to be concerned about in my lever action rifle? I have fired some of the rounds through this rifle and it seams to shoot accurately.
Brian,
I have the same problem with my Lyman #311041 bullet.I can't find any difference in the bullets.It has to be some tiny difference in the shape of the nose,between the two cavities of the same mold.
Try to find some variation of nose shape with your bullets.
Frank

Kragman71:
Good thought...and while we're at it, take the die apart and clean the bullet seating stem. May not help, it it sertainly won't hurt.

Kragman71:
Good thought...and while we're at it, take the die apart and clean the bullet seating stem. May not help, it it sertainly won't hurt.
Ribbbonstone,
How right you are. That's a recurring problem for me,because I use a lot of cast bullets,and sometimes too much lube.
That was the first thing that I checked.
Frank

Thanks for the response everyone. Sorry I haven't responded sooner but I have been out of town. Like I said in my first post, measuring from the top of the crimping groove to the top of the bullet with an electronic caliper shows quite a bit of variation. Tomorrow I will measure a larger quantity to provide some exact measurements of the variations. I have also noticed that the Starline brass I ordered is coming up .003-004 shorter than the trim length listed by Hornady and about .013-.014 below the maximum case length. This sure doesn't help with my COL problem and reducing "Free Bore" in an attempt to produce the most accurate load I can for my rifle. Although this probably isn't as big of a problem since I'm shooting a lever action rifle.

Thanks for the response everyone. Sorry I haven't responded sooner but I have been out of town. Like I said in my first post, measuring from the top of the crimping groove to the top of the bullet with an electronic caliper shows quite a bit of variation. Tomorrow I will measure a larger quantity to provide some exact measurements of the variations. I have also noticed that the Starline brass I ordered is coming up .003-004 shorter than the trim length listed by Hornady and about .013-.014 below the maximum case length. This sure doesn't help with my COL problem and reducing "Free Bore" in an attempt to produce the most accurate load I can for my rifle. Although this probably isn't as big of a problem since I'm shooting a lever action rifle.

Starline has been the most consistant brass I have bought. No deburring flash holes and after sizing very consistant length. I load 44 mag and spl and 38 S&W. I do not sort by weight on these handgun cases, rifle cases for that matter either, but I bet they beat others hands down there too. Your finding is surprising and I will check my next batch for length more carefully. I don't remember the trimming after sizing consistancy on the new brass.

Hi Fellas,
Brian,
Any possibility that you're using a powder that fills the case and is creating a compressed charge condition? I actually use powders in my 45-70 that give 100% loading density to keep bullets stable in the case under recoil and rely less on a heavy crimp, but if you over do it, inconsistent seating depth is the result.
Hope this helps. :)
Bryan

I guess I'm just having a run of bad luck with Hornady and Starline :-) My Starline brass is ranging from 1.2765 to 1.2840 in .357 mag, which forces me to trim them all to the shortest length of 1.276 so that my cases will be consistent. That is .004 shorter than the listed trim length and .014 shorted than the maximum case length. As far as the compressed loads go I am way away from that. My .45 Colt loads are only using 8.3 grains of Power Pistol behind a Hornady 250 grain XTP. The Starline brass was a little better in .45 Colt with the shortest brass running about 1.2745 which is only about .001 shorter than the listed trim length and .011 shorter than the listed .45 Colt maximum case length. Does anyone think that this will be a problem? Like I said, I am shooting this ammo in a lever action rifle with open sights so absolute accuracy is not critical, but my concern is can brass and or COL be to short? I guess if you think about it, you can shoot 38 Special ammo out of a 357-mag rifle, or 44 Special ammo out of a 44-mag rifle and the difference between those rounds is even greater than the difference that I am getting in my reloads. It is just frustrating that I am seeing this kind of inconsistencies in my components. With reloads I would like to be able to produce ammo that is more consistent and accurate than factory ammo!

Am not htinking a couple thousanths shorter than listed trim to lengths is much of a problem. Having a consistent length of brass helps for consistent crimping and possible benefits associated with.

When first starting handloading, was disturbed that final OAL were varing so much on rifle and pistol loads. Made a positive stop on the bench that the lever of the press hits at slightly above lowest part of down stroke. This helped considerable for keeping OAL closer by taking away the variabilty of the levers attachments flexing.

Would also check your seating plug to determine if final bullet seating depth is done by contact with mouth of bullet, or by contact with the ogee.

In order to try to narrow it down, I started adjusting the seating die and therefore the seating depth of each individual bullet, trying to make sure that each bullet was seated to the exact same position in the crimping groove. Having checked all my brass to insure that they are all the same length, and having seated all the bullets to the exact same point in the crimping groove, my bullets over-all length still varies by as much as .014. The only thing that could explain this would be variations in the XTP's bullet length and or position of it’s crimping groove. Does this sound right to you guys?