Hope this thread is in the correct area!

I wanted to start my son-in-law with a new hobbie, reloading. He has a Glock 40 S&W. After looking at some of the powder manufactors for data, I came across this warning.

"WARNING!!!"

"In recent years it has become very apparent that there exists a situation regarding some pistols chambered for the 40 S&W cartridge. Some of the pistols currently available to shooters may not provide complete support to the case when a cartridge is chambered.

The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI) has established a maximum average pressure for the 40 S&W of 35,000 psi. The loading data published by Accurate Arms was developed in our ballistic laboratory in accordance with SAAMI test methods and equipment and does not exceed this figure. This information is safe for use in firearms which provide complete support of the case. Failure to fully support the case with cartridges of such intensity may result in bulged cases, ruptured cases, separated case heads or other consequences which may result in damage to the firearm and/or injury or death to the shooter and/or bystanders. This can happen no matter whose propellant is used.

If you own a firearm chambered for the 40 S&W, we recommend you contact the manufacturer to determine if the case is fully supported, or have a competent gunsmith examine the firearm and determine the amount of support provided the case. If your firearm does not provide complete support for the case, DO NOT USE ******** **** ****** data or products to reload your 40 S&W ammunition.

This is the first time ******** **** ****** has felt it necessary to place such a restriction on the use of our products, but the continued safety and welfare of the shooting public compels us to do so."

Hey, what happened here? Surfing around the net it seems, at least to me, the combination of an unsupported cartridge case and a weak cartridge design are a receipe for disaster.

So the question today is: "Whats a poor man to do? Tell the kid to find another hobbie or buy a real pistol? Anyone have the straight scoop on reloading 40 S&W in a Glock?

Hoopie,

Well, I have done so and not blown anything up. But you're sort of on your own, to be honest.

Glock chambers are generous to say the least. Check out the brass when firing factory ammo; it will have a distinctly 'pregnant' look.

FYI Mike Venturino / Shooting Times had an article on reloading for the Glock (with cast bullets no less!) several years back. I'm sure Glock about had a coronary over that.

Best thing I can tell you - to stay out of trouble, use the minimum loads that will cycle the gun. And for the start, just use jacketed bullets. Lead build-up at the front of the chamber can be a problem with cast bullets, and having the gun slightly out of battery when it fires is never a good thing.

You can blow up any auto by hot-rodding it, this isn't totally confined to Glocks. But - it's a plastic frame, and a high-pressure cartridge. A bit more exciting than blowing off a case head in a .45 Auto with a steel frame and a cartridge that's about half as much pressure.

An aftermarket barrel may be worth looking into.

I've reloaded for them before, and will likley do so again. But I've been at it a while...... maybe not the best choice for a novice to start with.

...... maybe not the best choice for a novice to start with.

I couldn't agree more. If you do, I'd strongly suggest an aftermarket barrel with conventional rifling and, most important, a fully supported chamber.

I bought an aftermarket stainless bbl for my Glock 20 (10mm) in .40sw from http://efkfiredragon.com/ for about $140 ... I think they're a bit more now ... the bbl is lands-n-grooves. I know of one other guy who got a .40sw bbl, also from EFK Firedragon (stupid name, I know) for his G22 and he's been competing for at least 2yrs with absolutely no problems. Very good bbl's for the money ... compared to what you'd pay for a Bar-Sto.

... actually, upon further review, they're still $140.

Well, I have done so and not blown anything up. But you're sort of on your own, to be honest.

Glock chambers are generous to say the least. Check out the brass when firing factory ammo; it will have a distinctly 'pregnant' look.

FYI Mike Venturino / Shooting Times had an article on reloading for the Glock (with cast bullets no less!) several years back. I'm sure Glock about had a coronary over that.

Best thing I can tell you - to stay out of trouble, use the minimum loads that will cycle the gun. And for the start, just use jacketed bullets. Lead build-up at the front of the chamber can be a problem with cast bullets, and having the gun slightly out of battery when it fires is never a good thing.

You can blow up any auto by hot-rodding it, this isn't totally confined to Glocks. But - it's a plastic frame, and a high-pressure cartridge. A bit more exciting than blowing off a case head in a .45 Auto with a steel frame and a cartridge that's about half as much pressure.

An aftermarket barrel may be worth looking into.

I've reloaded for them before, and will likley do so again. But I've been at it a while...... maybe not the best choice for a novice to start with.

I'll use my inside bore mike and check out the chamber on the Glock. That should be interesting. This afternoon, just for grins and giggles, I miked the chamber on my S&W 10mm. Might be like adding apples and bananas and coming up with cherries, but at least it is something to go on.

One big item of note: On the S&W, the slide and barrel move together about 1/8 of an inch before starting to unlock. The Glock starts to unlock as soon as the slide starts rearward movement! The pressure might be still high enough to expand the brass being extracted. Could explain the 'pregnant' look. Yes the fired brass from his Glock is pregnant. About 3 months.

Reloading for a pistol should be within the grasp of a novice. Its just these hidden cherry pits get in the way.

Hoopie,

One big item of note: On the S&W, the slide and barrel move together about 1/8 of an inch before starting to unlock. The Glock starts to unlock as soon as the slide starts rearward movement! The pressure might be still high enough to expand the brass being extracted. Could explain the 'pregnant' look. Yes the fired brass from his Glock is pregnant. About 3 months.

The "pregnant look" is caused by a partially supported case head. The chamber in Glocks is actually cut-away at the bottom to supposedly aid feed reliability. The "belly" is that portion of the cartridge that was unsupported on ignition.

"Glock chambers are generous to say the least. Check out the brass when firing factory ammo; it will have a distinctly 'pregnant' look."

What is the chamber like on a sig? specifically P226 & P239?

"Glock chambers are generous to say the least. Check out the brass when firing factory ammo; it will have a distinctly 'pregnant' look."

What is the chamber like on a sig? specifically P226 & P239?

Were are on to something here, guess I'll have to start packing the inside bore mike in my back pocket. Then when I meet someone on the street ask them, "Hey buddy, you got a sig P226 or P239". I don't have one in the sock drawer to check.

Just joking, but anyway my son-in-law doesn't shoot that often, at least not yet. An after market barrel would not be worth the investment at this time. I do wish I had a few more 40's to compare, the data would be interesting.

The quest was to find out if his Glock would be safe to reload, at this point the answer is NO. Have to error on the safe side, we like our fingers and eyes just as they are.

Hoopie,

Heed the warnings! I celebrated the 4th of July this year by totalling a beautiful Kahr P40. I'd been firing mild handloads in it using 155 grain lead bullets. Then I switched to a magazine of 180 grain lead bullets that were loaded to nearly full charge. On the second shot the barrel split down the middle, bulging the slide and sending the mag out the bottom of the gun. Fortunately the greatest pain suffered was to my wallet. Now the gun had fired the hotter loaded cartridges many times in the past, but I theorize that the extended use of the 155 grainers had heavily fouled the Kahr's hexagonal bore. When the heavy slug went down the pipe it simply couldn't take it.

Xzec.

I've never had a problem reloading .40 s&w in my glock, but I don't use "range" brass and I stick to light loads. Never, ever, use lead bullets in a stock Glock barrel. Buy a KKM or another quality aftermarket with traditional rifling (and better case head support).
There is a lot of info on this subject over on glocktalk.com
I'm going to try to post some pictures of various caliber Glock barrels showing their case head support.
Mike

mdatlanta,

Thanks for for personal input as a .40 caliber Glock reloader and the jpg attachment. The old saying about one picture being worth a thousand words certainly applies.

Nice pics, Mike. Strange how the .40s seem to have so much more generous throat dimensions than the others.

Maniac - wow, that's impressive. Glad you weren't hurt. No possibility of there being a barrel obstruction from the last 155gr. bullet, I don't suppose? Sounds like that 180gr. bullet must have been pushing a LOT of lead in front of it. Got pictures?

I've never had a problem reloading .40 s&w in my glock, but I don't use "range" brass and I stick to light loads. Never, ever, use lead bullets in a stock Glock barrel. Buy a KKM or another quality aftermarket with traditional rifling (and better case head support).
There is a lot of info on this subject over on glocktalk.com
I'm going to try to post some pictures of various caliber Glock barrels showing their case head support.
Mike

Good information, I like not to believe anything I hear, and only half of what I see. Glocktalk was one of the first places I found as a source on the Glock 40 S&W. Which is why my question is posted here at shootersforum.

Two items trouble me with reloading this round: The swelling of the case, either from a loose chamber or an unsupported chamber, and set back. Resizing the case will weaken it, making the next firing a leap in faith. If the brass is weak and the grip on the bullet doesn't hold all bets are off. The short case and chambers on some of the pistols tell me to use new brass only!! Then pray.

Hoopie

Nice pics, Mike. Strange how the .40s seem to have so much more generous throat dimensions than the others.

Maniac - wow, that's impressive. Glad you weren't hurt. No possibility of there being a barrel obstruction from the last 155gr. bullet, I don't suppose? Sounds like that 180gr. bullet must have been pushing a LOT of lead in front of it. Got pictures?


There couldn't have been a barrel obstruction because the bullets were unjacketed lead (Laser Cast 155 gr. RNSWC propelled by 5.5 gr. Universal), and at each shot recoil and report were normal, and a hole appeared in the target in normal fashion. The load that caused the kaboom was a 180 gr. LTC propelled by 5.2 gr. Universal. OALs were normal. I could not have accidently loaded a double charge, since a correct charge of powder more than half filled the case. From past experience, I know that lead bullets have leaded the barrel, but I never dreamed it would lead to a blow up. It is possible that the lead prevented the cartridge from seating all the way in the chamber, and the gun fired without being locked. But the damage sort of indicates the barrel was locked to the slide at the time.



Xzec

First of all I have heard this issue is not only a Glock thing.
I can't remember what other guns have this type of thing.

I reload 9MM for my Glocks with no problems what so ever but the 9MM chamber does not see the issue of the 40. I know a lot of practical pistol shooters that reload for their 40's both Glock and others with no problems no matter what gun the brass was shot from before.

As with all reloading you just need to watch your loading practices and casses to ensure safe reloads. Many of them runn all the brass through a full sizer first no matter what gun it came from. If this was a Glock only thing why would they go the extra steps.

Seems strange but the only blown up guns I have seen were not Glocks and I did see one shooter have a near blow up on a Glock 40 but it was because of a cracked case. No harm was done to shooter or gun. (he shot moslty all nickle cases)

There couldn't have been a barrel obstruction because the bullets were unjacketed lead (Laser Cast 155 gr. RNSWC propelled by 5.5 gr. Universal), and at each shot recoil and report were normal, and a hole appeared in the target in normal fashion. The load that caused the kaboom was a 180 gr. LTC propelled by 5.2 gr. Universal. OALs were normal. I could not have accidently loaded a double charge, since a correct charge of powder more than half filled the case. From past experience, I know that lead bullets have leaded the barrel, but I never dreamed it would lead to a blow up. It is possible that the lead prevented the cartridge from seating all the way in the chamber, and the gun fired without being locked. But the damage sort of indicates the barrel was locked to the slide at the time.



Xzec
I recently sold my Glock 22C, 40 S&W...I never had any problems with it, but many a time I have heard of kabooms with those handloading the cartridges. Glock DOES say IN THE MANUAL, I believe, that shooting lead out of the stock barrel can lead to lead-ing problems and a possible kaboom. I guess, if you don't read the manual, it happens.

Greetings, I've been working on warmer loadings for the Glock 23 with the factory barrel and got a lot of useful info over at Glock Talk forums.
Powders I've settled on are V-V 3n37, Longshot and 800X