After I got the trigger done on my 788 and went back to shooting my M70 featherweight in .243, i noticed that the trigger felt kinda heavy, so when i noticed a crack in the forend of the Laminate stock, i figured it was time for a trip to the gunsmith. I decided on having the stock fixed, getting the crappy factory bedding redone and have the trigger lightened a little. Got to the shop and out of curiosity had him weigh the trigger before he adjusted it. Well he put the scale on it and couldn;t get the trigger to break with the 80oz scale, so he had to use his finger, but he estimated it at about 10 lbs. All this liability crap is a real pain, i can understand not wanting to get sued, but 10 lbs, CRAZINESS!!!!
Just felt like venting, thanks for listining

jb,
I had a Golden Eagle 7000 in 300 Win Mag once upon a time that you couldn't get the trigger to break if you held the gun up by the trigger alone. The rifle and scope (Swarovski all steel 30mm tube) weighed just over 11.5 pounds.

Today's triggers are terrible. With the business that Jewell, Timney, Canjar, Moyer, Kepplinger, et al., are doing, you'd think that the manufacturers would stand up to fight these type of insurance-proofing measures.

Ruger still has the two screws in their trigger on the M77 and No.1's. Used to be you could adjust overtravel and weight of pull with these two screws. Not anymore, well, not with the No.1's. The screws don't do anything but turn. Absolutely nothing.

Even Smith & Wesson, who is known for the best handgun triggers around from the factory are going to the heavy pulls. My latest 317 Airlite has a double action pull of about 10 lbs. Single action is about 1/2 that. Much too heavy.

After I got the trigger done on my 788 and went back to shooting my M70 featherweight in .243, i noticed that the trigger felt kinda heavy, so when i noticed a crack in the forend of the Laminate stock, i figured it was time for a trip to the gunsmith. I decided on having the stock fixed, getting the crappy factory bedding redone and have the trigger lightened a little. Got to the shop and out of curiosity had him weigh the trigger before he adjusted it. Well he put the scale on it and couldn;t get the trigger to break with the 80oz scale, so he had to use his finger, but he estimated it at about 10 lbs. All this liability crap is a real pain, i can understand not wanting to get sued, but 10 lbs, CRAZINESS!!!!
Just felt like venting, thanks for listining

At least the Model 70 is easily adjusted. My Classic SM trigger was the same way, only it was about 8 pounds before.

My 1895 Marlin was so heavy, sometimes I had to look to see if it was cocked.I pulled it apart yesterday and replaced the mainspring. That alone cut the trigger pull in half at least!!!Now I need to go farther and slick up everything in the trigger group.
BTW the spring I used was the stock mainspring from my 44SRH. It didn't always bust the caps at first. I shimmed it with just one flat washer, and it hasn't failed yet.
I am not advocating this procedure, just an old homesteader's answer.

Buy a Savage with Accutrigger and forget about the Lawyer proof trigger days.

I know savage has good triggers, i am glad someone figured out how to beat the lawyers.

I went up to NYPD last year. They hve had a heaver trigger put on their issue Glocks!!! Can you imagine trying to hit anything with a DAO pistol with a 12 lbs trigger? I asked and their SRT told me that they have to throw the first round....how dumb was the trigger decision?

Buy a European rifle with a set trigger and forget the US lawyers, or continue to support the after market folks, who do make good triggers!
Larry

I am not wild about set triggers, i will just continue to support my local gunsmith and have him set the trigger the way i like.

There's something I just can't figure out about Savage's decision to go with the Accu-Trigger. A regular Savage, Winchester, Remington, Ruger trigger can be made to be as light and crisp as the Accu-Trigger. Why did Savage overengineer it adding the tab? The actual design has been implemented by folks like Canjar for set triggers in the past, and Glock has a similar 'safety trigger', so I see where they get the concept, but why? Why not just offer their rifles with a regular trigger tuned as the Accu-Trigger is?

Seems to be more of a gimmick to me than an improvement over existing triggers. I applaud them for offering a rifle with a decent trigger pull out of the box, but am confused why they gadgeted it up.

Marketing, my boy, marketing! :D

There's something I just can't figure out about Savage's decision to go with the Accu-Trigger. A regular Savage, Winchester, Remington, Ruger trigger can be made to be as light and crisp as the Accu-Trigger. Why did Savage overengineer it adding the tab? The actual design has been implemented by folks like Canjar for set triggers in the past, and Glock has a similar 'safety trigger', so I see where they get the concept, but why? Why not just offer their rifles with a regular trigger tuned as the Accu-Trigger is?

Seems to be more of a gimmick to me than an improvement over existing triggers. I applaud them for offering a rifle with a decent trigger pull out of the box, but am confused why they gadgeted it up.

The reason why is very simple - if a regular trigger is light enough and a gun is dropped then it may go off . The accutrigger tab basicly enables the trigger. With the tab in place you can get the trigger down to 1.5 pounds and slam the gun into the ground butt first and it will not go off. Set a regular trigger at 2 pounds and slam the gun into the ground you better be prepared for a big bang.

The accutrigger works just like the trigger on a M1. There is a certain amount of take-up which is depressing the tab and then the trigger engages and goes bang. After the takeup is covered, the trigger feels just like any other light weight premium trigger. If you shoot a M1 Garand you will feel right at home with it.

az,
I understand the concept, very similar to Canjar's set trigger. A 2.5 or 3 pound trigger in a Winchester, Ruger, Remington, is not going off with the "3-foot" drop test, unless they have a trigger shoe on them or the trigger job is done poorly. Who would have a loaded rifle in position to drop squarely on the butt on concrete from a height of 3 feet or more, anyway?

I'm not even sure where or when this test became valid.

Again, I understand the concept, even understand the test, but still question why? Are we really practicing those kind of bad gun handling techniques? I see it as another ploy of the manufacturers to protect us from ourselves. From being stupid. It's as bad as the 8 pound triggers, only you can't get rid of the extra parts.

alyeska338

A 3 foot drop butt first on concrete is pretty tame compared to some of the tumbles I have taken or seen taken in the thickets! When people are wet, cold and tired coordination takes a nose dive!

If you are like me, you have likely taken a fall or two yourself. Perhaps you have even seen a M70 or MkV that fired when the safety was set to fire, as I have. It had nothing to do with the trigger settings. As a result, I normally don't keep a round in the chamber or I de-cock the firing pin if I feel I need the round there.

I've adjusted both my sako and remington triggers down to near minimum (1000 g and 1500 g respectively) and i cant get them to fire by smacking the gun with my hand hard enough that it hurts, having my gun get hit any harder than that seems like something i would never allow to happen. I am interested in these set triggers though, what exactly are they and how does it work?

People occasionally drop rifles when climbing into tower blinds; the ground down here can be about as hard as pavement. Naturally, the rifle falls straight down with the barrel pointing right up at the hunter :eek:

A gunwriter, I believe it was Layne Simpson, reported doing this with an unloaded rifle (fortunately for him). Said that it jarred the gun hard enough that the gun dry-fired when it hit.... not a good feeling......

Anybody with any sense would not climb up a ladder with a loaded gun, but there are a lot people without much sense.

I have had one gun go off when the safety was pushed to fire. Bit of a surprise to say the least. I didn't do the trigger adjustment that lead to that incident, but results were the same. Fortunately, was being dilligent about muzzle control at the time.

Yes, I have taken tumbles while working or hunting when I had firearms with me. My rifles have the dings and scars to prove it. These all have occured when traversing greasy-slick, or unstable scree and rock, slopes approaching 75% or more. Not one time was there a cartridge in the chamber. In situation where you can't control the direction of the muzzle or where mishap is likely, you should never chamber a round.

MikeG's example is probably the most likely situation of accidental discharge caused by a safety failing, that or someone taking a fall with their finger inside the triggerguard. Either failure though is due violating safe gunhandling practices. If you can't control the muzzle or trigger of the firearm, make sure there isn't a round chambered. I've taken falls that have broken ankles, ribs, and collarbones while toting firearms, but none have caused an accidental discharge.

Another likely cause is shade tree gun mechanics that alter geometry of the sear engagement making the trigger unsafe. That still isn't the fault of the trigger or safety mechanism. If you don't fully understand the guts of your gun, stay out of there! Leave it to someone that does.

It comes down proper and safe gun-handling and understanding the trigger when adjusting. If you are climbing into a treestand, scrambling across a moving screeslope, traversing across a rain-slickened fern covered slope, or resting your firearm on something that where aren't controlling the firearm anymore, take the round out of the chamber. Even the Glock or the Accu-Trigger is susceptible to firing around if uncontrolled circumstances dictate, no matter how safe the manufacturer makes them.

Again, I commend Savage for offering a decent trigger pull out of the box, but put the Accu-Trigger with Remington's J-lock, S&W's key-locks, Winchester's tang safeties, and Marlin's cross-bolt safety.

I have had one gun go off when the safety was pushed to fire. Bit of a surprise to say the least. I didn't do the trigger adjustment that lead to that incident, but results were the same. Fortunately, was being dilligent about muzzle control at the time.

Remington? :D

Nope, tang-safety Ruger with adjustable trigger. I think my father-in-law was the guilty party on that one.

Maybe it was intended for your mother in law :D

Got the Winchester back from the gunsmith last wednesday, Loaded up some fresh ammo (with a proven load [i did vary my seating depth]) and i was able to shrink my group from about 1 1/4 to less than 3/4 inch. JB is a happy shooter

Good for you, JB!

A few weeks ago I had a smith tune the triggers on three Rem. 700s so they would all be the same. I asked for 3 lbs. These are all hunting rifles.

The smith tested all three when I took them in: '06 mfg. in 1960s had been worked on before and broke too light at about 2.25#; the 35 Whelen made in in '80s broke at 4#; and the .223 made in the last year or so maxed out the scale which I believe went up to 8#.

Admittedly the 1960s gun had been slicked up already but the progression of heavier and heavier pulls over the years is pretty evident from this sample.

Now I have them like I want and shooting one is just like shooting any except for the recoil.

I would much rather buy a rifle off the shelf with a 2.5-3lb pull, which I consider ideal, but it's a simple fact that that time is long gone. In addition to making superbly accurate, terrribly ugly, rifles...Savage needs to be commended for dealing with the scumbag trial lawyers (J. Edwards comes to mind) for making something we can all use without having to spend extra money at the gunsmith.

I'll agree with Alyeska that trigger work is best left to gunsmiths unless you have a full understanding of what it takes to do it safely. Your life, that of a loved one, or a complete stranger, is obviously worth an exponentially greater amount that the $35-70 a smith will charge you to adjust your trigger to suit you.. if you shoot a Savage, Remington, or Winchester. Same applies to replacing a trigger on other rifles, or earlier models of other popular rifles.

There is no doubt that a reasonable trigger pull is a great benefit, but I'd rather put a little extra money into a trigger than have our arms makers dissapear as a result of a moron and scumbag trial lawyer getting together and destroying them. Does anyone remember H&R being sued for some moron using his firearm, with a loaded chamber, for a snow brush to clear his tree stand of snow...while it was LOADED and he was hanging on to the BARREL? Never overestimate your fellow man, and never underestimate what a lawyer can do to destroy an honest business as a result of the actions of a moron.

I've edited this to make my position clear. I'm not saying anyone here needs to view this the way I do, or that my position is the only one. I make my statements in light of the fact that things are the way they are. The way things are aren't the way that many folks, myself included, think they should be, but the fact is that things are as they are. Not looking for an argument, just presenting things as they seem to be.