Getting the itch to buy a Sharps rifle. Just wondering how the Shiloh Sharps compare to the Pedersoli sharps as far as quality of the rifle, functioning, accuracy, etc. Models I'm looking at are either the Quigley or the Long Range Target. I already have 3 Tradpdoor rifles M66 and M68 in 50-70 and a M73 in 45-70, so I was thinking of going with somthing different in the Sharps such as a 45-110 or 45-120. As far as recoil I feel nothing on my Trapdoors, and I'm a thick build, how much does the -110 or -120 recoil? For now only use will be Cowboy Shoot side matches, and just putching paper. Also what bullet do you recomend, was thinking of the standard 500 gr. Lyman bullet or the 535gr. Postell bullet. Thanks in advance.

I cannot speak to the differances between the 2. I would not worry about the recoil. I have not fired a Sharps but have tried out some big British singles in similar calibres and the recoil is managable. I fired a Martini sporter in 500/450 which would be similar to the 45-120 and it was OK, also a 500 Express which was a 50-140 basically. I had a .270 with an ill fitting stock for a while and it hurt more than either of those!

Thats like compareing a Cadi to a chevette.
If you can stand the wait the Shilo is the way to go, for pure fun the 45-110 is way better than the 120, and its more accurate

Shawn

Both the Pedersoli and Shiloh Sharps are very good rifles . I have and shoot quite often the Pedersoil Quigley 45-3.25 and is very accurate . The wood to metal fit looks like it came from the Shiloh factory and it came with standard wood that looks like extra fancy with great figure in it . My buddy has a Shiloh 50-140 and the 45-110 LRE , put them side by side with my Pedersoli and you can not tell them apart , quality is superb on both . Last years Size does matter at the Raton nationals was won by a pedersoli . By the way my buddy could not hit the ground at two hundred yards with his Shiloh's , he has almost no trigger time ,it's not the gun it's the person behind it , need trigger time and more trigger time . If I am correct a Pedersoli 45-120 came in second at the world creedmore match last year . My 45-3.25 likes the 535 postell out to 600 yards . I also use my 45-3.25 for hunting here in Alaska , I cast some big boys for that job , they are 720 gr WFN bullets , they are also accurate out to 200 yards , I have not tested them any further than that . Lead butt is right about the wait , I talked to kirk ( shiloh boss ) last week about having a Shiloh Schuetzen ( 38-55 ) built for me , he says he could and it would be about 12-15 months wait . He also said he has not built a Schuetzen for at least eight years , fun project . Side note , I would of bought a Pedersoli Schuetzen first except they make it only in a 45-70 .Long story short , both are very good and accurate , go for the gusto and get a 45-120 , you will love it .


RR

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I've been told that Pedersoli uses an Allen screw to hold the thumb piece to the locking piece. That is a very poor design. Most shooters replace the block and locking mechanism with an original to get around the problem. Is this that big of a deal?
Glad to here about the metal/wood fit, as I was told it wasn't that good. Guess I'll have to go look at them up at Cabelas again.

Shawn

Not sure about the screws .I have never had mine taken apart , been shooting it three years with no problems . Pedersoli builds rifles on the bulk side ( mass production ) where Shiloh custom builds them . The wood to metal fit will always be better than pedersoli most of the time .If you have the cash and can wait abit I would go with the Shiloh .Shootability from both are great . Side note # I do not think Shiloh makes a 45-3.25 any more .When you go to look at the sharps at cabelas make sure your not looking at the other sharps makers ( IAB, peretti ETC. )God luck and do trigger time .

RR

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Hello Sir, I am new to this forum but thought I would jump right in. I saw your post on the Sharps or the Pedersoli. Just got my Shiloh Sharps from Big Timber Montana. The work is perfect, wood to metal fit is perfect. I chose at 1st the Long Range Express but settled for the #3 sporter in .45/110 because of the options it was cheaper that way and got the same options.. It has a full octagon 34 inch barrel with full buckhorn rear and blade front. Currently I am using 525 grain cast bullets but have shot 405 grain cast made from wheelweights. The recoil is managable, the gun weighs is at 14 pounds. Was hoping to go deer hunting with it this year but just had neck surgery so that is out. Hope this helps you out.
:D

Shawn:
There are three manufacturers of Sharps rifles in the USA; C. Sharps, Shiloh, and Axtell. They are all small shops located in Montana. C. Sharps and Shiloh make the 1874 model and Axtell makes the 1877.

Even though these rifles are more expensive than the Italian imports, they are the best value in the long run. They are custom rifles, giving you a lot of options to select, just what you want and what fits you best. The 45-70 has a lot of advantages for someone just starting out in BP cartridge shooting.

I have an Axtell 1877 on order in 45-90. Check them out at www.riflesmith.com.

Who is making the Sharps rifles for Dakota, or are they making them in house? There's also a small custom shop somewhere in Mississippi that is turning out some really nice 1874's.

I have a Pedersoli 45-90 Billy Dixon model. I bought it new from Buffalo Arms in July of 2003. I have had the pleasure to handle and shoot a couple of C Sharps as well. My impression was that if selecting custom wood and features were my main point, the C Sharps would be the best way to go. However, we're talking about $3,500 and up. For $1,200 I got my Pedersoli. It shhots as well as or better than any of the more expensive custom Sharps I see at the range here in in LA any day of the week. The wood is very nice although certainly not fancy grade. Compared to new Winchester, Browning, Ruger or Remington stocks, the Pedersoli wood and checkering is superior. Finer, tighter grain, lots more figure and color and che checkering is definately hand cut and clean/sharp. The barrels are beautiful. Highly polished and lapped, Pedersoli barrels actually have tapered bores running .458 at the chamber mouth to .4565 at the muzzle. This old-time trick seems to enhance accuracy and is pretty time consumeing to create. I've never had a malfunction or breakage in more than 1,000 rounds so far. I replaced the standard sights with a set of Pedersoli Soule sights from Cabelas....they ran slightly less than $275 and are well worth it. Unless you plan on doing a lot of 1,000 yard shooting ge the mid-range Soule. The long range sight does not like to lay flat against the stock on the BD model and interferes with the cleaning rod. So, if you want a great shooter that looks good and functions flawlessly, get the Pedersoli. Stay away from the other imports...they are flawed machines indeed. If a custom collectable is your thing, go with one of the Montana firms. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Buying a rifle is like getting married, better to do it right the first time. Get the Shiloh and dont look back. My opinion anyway.

I also have the Pedersoli Sharps Rifle(Quigley model)in caliber 45-3.25(45-120)and find it to be very well made. The wood to metal fit is superb and the bluing fantastic. The color case hardened receiver, hammer and trigger guard really sets it off. I would like to get the tang sight later. I've only had it since xmas of 2003 and have not shot it that much. Been trying to get the Lyman Postell(535gr) bullet to shoot along with the Lyman 500gr RN and am still looking for what shoots the best. Combo that I have tried keyholes in target after 2 or 3 shots with 20:1 mix for bullets, among other things. Still have other things to try. I've not seen a C.Sharps or Shiloh Sharps to compare it to. Any other loading info you guys would be willing to share would be greatly appreciated. Thanks........Bob

Get a 45-70. It's cheaper to shoot & recoils a lot less. I don't care who you are or how big you are, those long 45's are hard to shoot a 40 round match with. The 45-70 fouls less and it's every bit as accurate. The creedmore matches were shot with 45-70 (45- 2.1) and 45-90's (45-2.4). You can always change your mind later if you want to go bigger, simply by having a gunsmith open up the chamber to the longer cartridge, but it is awfully hard to shorten one.

Getting the itch to buy a Sharps rifle. Just wondering how the Shiloh Sharps compare to the Pedersoli sharps as far as quality of the rifle, functioning, accuracy, etc. Models I'm looking at are either the Quigley or the Long Range Target. I already have 3 Tradpdoor rifles M66 and M68 in 50-70 and a M73 in 45-70, so I was thinking of going with somthing different in the Sharps such as a 45-110 or 45-120. As far as recoil I feel nothing on my Trapdoors, and I'm a thick build, how much does the -110 or -120 recoil? For now only use will be Cowboy Shoot side matches, and just putching paper. Also what bullet do you recomend, was thinking of the standard 500 gr. Lyman bullet or the 535gr. Postell bullet. Thanks in advance.

Shawn and vmt_htr:

The 45 caliber cases longer than 2.4 inches (45-90) have a much steeper learning curve in finding an accurate load. They also are seen with much less frequency at matches due to the heavier recoil. However that doesn't mean that you can't get a lot of use and fun out of them.

The cases longer than 2.1 inches (45-70) are not very suitable for smokeless loads. Especially when you get to the long 3.25 inch case (45-120), you will need to use black powder in order to get good results. I would suggest Swiss or GOEX in FF or Goex Cartridge.

Check out www.BPCR.net and go to technical information for a good article on loading these cartridges.

I had a Shiloh 45-110 a few years ago and it fouled quite quickly. Traded it to a buddy and he had the same experience, couldn't get it to shoot accurately (and he is an experienced BPCR shooter). Brass is costly, uses more powder, recoil is fairly heavy. For my money, I would take the middle ground and go with the 45-90. Beautiful guns tho. I have a Pedersoli 40-65 (a great gun) and a Shiloh 44-90 which I love. Emery

With regard to your caliber choice, it is my understanding that the 45/110 is much better than the 45/120. There are many experienced long range (1000 yd) shooters who believe that the 110 is the absolute best long range cartridge there is. I don't have enough long range experience to form a strong opinion, but, with that said, if I was going to build a long range rifle I would probably get a 14 pound 45/90.

With regard to fouling problems with the 110, I think these can be solved.

As far as recoil with the 110, you are going to have quite a bit of recoil with any good long range load (525-550 gr buillets at about 1300 fps). For general plinking, or short range target shooting, you can minimize recoil by using Fg powder (which may be the best powder for the 45/110 anyway), lighter bullets in the 450 gr range, and by making sure your rifle is not too light!! 12 pounds at a minimum, and the closer you can get to the NRA limit of 15 pounds, the better (That 15 pounds is the limit for long range. The silhouette limit is 12 pounds 2 oz (I think).

I have been having trouble casting 500gr. bullets for my Pedersoli .45/70.
I use 1 to 20 alloy of tin to lead my castings range from 500 to 507 in grain weight which while not bad for general plinking and hunting are way off for BPCR competition matches where the variance should be no more than .5 gr. between projectile weight. I use an RCBS .45-500-BPS P/N mould and the majority of my castings come out of the mould .0001 too large in circumference to fit easily into the brass case and the majority will not chamber in the rifle. Any suggestions?

I've seen only a couple of Shiloh's out here at long range matches, they're beautiful looking guns but unless you examined them really close you probably wouldn't notice the difference between one of them and the equivalent Pedersoli in fit and finish. (Although the 'made in italy' stamped on the barrel is a dead giveaway on the latter)
The annual long range comp I attend out here is dominated by Pedersoli's or custom rifles built on original martini, comblain, rolling block or Miroku actions (copy of the highwall). I have never seen anybody do any good with a Shiloh - this probably has more to do with the particular owners than anything else. Same for the really big calibres, by weekends end we will have fired over 100 rounds and I've never seen anyone using a cartridge bigger than 50-90 do any good, or even hit many targets. I borrowed a mate's 'Boss" rifle in 45-120 the other day for a single action blackpowder match and managed to place third, but it was only a ten shot match. Even in that hevay rifle the recoil would have started to wear me down pretty quickly after that. But buy the gun for what you want to use it for - those big cannons are a hoot to shoot for a while. For fun or single action comps, I think the bigger cartridges are fine. Getting back to the shiloh vs pedersoli, there are so many people on here extolling the virtues of the Montana made sharps, I reckon they must know what they're talking about. But the Pedersoli is still a quality product, and like I said they win a lot of comps out here. Just my 2c.
-Kilburnie

Greetings Fellas. I've been reading the various comments about the Pedersoli vs. Shiloh Sharps commentary. I purchased a Cimarron (Pedersoli) "Big-Fifty" Long Range Sharps in 50-90/.50-110 cal. (depending on bullet weight and powder charge) about 10 months ago. I can personally attest to the custom-grade fit and finish of this beautiful rifle. The match-grade 34 inch barrel is lapped and polished to absolute perfection. The beauty of the wood and hand-cut checkering on this rifle is also second to none.

I can also attest to the fact that if you laid it on a table, atop and below a Shiloh and a C. Sharps, you would not be able to ascertain the difference, if you didn't know beforehand which was which. The top-end "Big-Fifty" comes with built-in custom features without the extra thousands of dollars. It just so happens that the dimensions of this rifle fits me to a "T". That may or may not be the same for most shooters but it's not too terribly expensive to have a little extra wood removed from the butt-stock if a shorter length of pull is required.

Now admittedly, I just started casting 650 gr. paper-patched Creedmore smooth-sided bullets for my .50-90 about two months ago. I'm using ultra-refined wheel weight lead for my bullets because I harvest about 100lbs. of it free every month from 4 local tire/truck shops. I'm using a Buffalo Arms Company single cavity bullet mould which consistently casts .492 dia bullets that practically fall out of the mould with hardly a jolt being necessary. I did apply a good coating of Brownell's Oxyphosphate cold-bluing solution to the bullet cavity of the mould to facilitate this.

Anyway, I'm getting way ahead of myself and slightly off-subject but let me reiterate: "If you are agonizing over a Pedersoli, Axtell, C. Sharps or a Shiloh, have no fear whatsoever in choosing the top-end Pedersolis!" The top-end Pedersoli will save you thousands of hard-earned dollars, while at the same time giving you comparable quality in fit and finish; also, without the 15 month plus waiting period! If however, you are purchasing with the intent of future resale value, then yes, the Shiloh, C. Sharps or Axtell product will definately resell for far more because they start-out much higher. You also have the option of "cherry-picking" and designing your rifle to your exact specifications from the ground-up with the three custom makers. To reiterate, I lucked-out with the dimensions on my Cimarron/Pedersoli Sharps "Big-Fifty"...but with a price of $2,300.00, that wasn't exactly peanuts either!

Allow me to reiterate that many long-range competitions are now being won with the Pedersoli Sharps Rifles. This probably has alot to do with the fact that Pedersoli uses progressive rifling and laps and polishes their bores to perfection....my "Big-Fifty" certainly was. Also consider the fact that progressive rifling requires special machining technology that doesn't come cheap but Pedersoli did make the extra investment for good reason(s). The aforementioned domestic custom makers didn't do this and the results are becoming obvious on the firing-lines across the world, beautiful custom features not withstanding in some cases. Although, any serious long-range competitor knows which custom barrels work best for their chosen application when going the "custom-route".

Be sure to do your homework beforehand if you "go custom", otherwise, you may be disappointed on the line after having dropped $3000.00 plus dollars and agonized through a 15 month plus waiting period. NOT SO with a TOP-END Pedersoli Sharps. Yes, Pedersoli also offers extra custom features you can order that places the cost within the price range of the other three custom, domestic makers...if this is what you desire....just so that you know....AND you will not have to wait 15 plus months for delivery either. Additionally, Pedersoli uses state-of-the-art CNC Milling Technology that gives you space-age tolerances in this venerable design AND they've redesigned/beefed-up some areas of this rifle that were slightly lacking in the old/original design. They proof their guns with smokeless loads that are 30% above the stated 25,000 CUP rating mentioned in their manuals. If that ain't good engineering and excellent performance, then I give up!

Last but not least, the subject of recoil. I personally "field-dress out" at 5'11" and 245 lbs. With a 650 gr Creedmore paper-patched bullet through this 13 lb. rifle, I can shoot it all day without flinching because the recoil shove, I feel, is no worse than a sporter weight .45-70. AND YES, the rifle still outshoots me but I'm having an absolute ball working-up the perfect load for this 34 inch barrelled "Big-Fifty". The only thing that even slightly vexes me, if you can call it that, is the fact that the engraving on my Long-Range Soul-Creedmore sight could have been just a wee bit deeper, making the tick marks and numbers slightly more visable than they are. Other than that, I wouldn't part with my Pedersoli "Big-Fifty" until my cold dead fingers are pried from it's beautifully carved stock! Admittedly, I initially thought I was "settling" for a Pedersoli but I have since learned that I was JOYFULLY MISTAKEN in this initial misconception... There you have it for what it's worth......Sasquatch...Out.

DerSasquatch

Boy howdy this thread goes back to 2004 and it still is going !!!!!!
Must be good stuff to read .

Yep there is nothing wrong with the Pedersoli what so ever .
Got to love those big ole thunder poles with the Holy Black ........

RR

Greetings Ranger Rick. Yeah, I was doing a little extra research on black powder cartridge ballistics when I happened onto this site and this particular thread. I kinda lost track of the dates atop the individual threads.

Homer, Alaska eh?...Wow...talk about being in the midst of "Sportsman's Paradise". From the looks of things here in the lower "48", your neck-of-the woods may just be the only area that resembles Ol' America in the next 10 years or so.....hmmm...I may just have to come up there one day and request "Political Assylum".

Yeah, I still plan on getting an AMERICAN-made Sharps in the near future. I consider it my Patriotic Duty. Unfortunately, at the time I returned from Iraq, I couldn't find a Shiloh or a C.Sharps in .50-90 with a heavy 34" match-grade barrel....that I could readily lay my hands on. This top-end Pedersoli has been a real pleasant surprise and has bought me invaluable training time that I would have otherwise lost...waiting.....and waiting. Now at least, I can tolerate whatever the waiting period may be.

My next one will be another .50-90 made by C. Sharps. I like the fact that they also use state-of-the-art CNC Milling Technology and mill their components from solid billets of ordnance-grade steel, not from investment castings like Shiloh. But I do have to say again: "I'm glad I happened onto the top-end Pedersoli because it sure hasn't been a disappointment, let me tell you". If this is called "settling for a product" then I'll gladly settle for this kinda quality any day of the week.

...Keep up the Good Tradition way up there in the Northern Hemisphere Ranger Rick. If you have any "Pearls of Wisdom" regarding these old coal burners that I may have over-looked, please feel free to pass them on. I'm never too proud to admit that I don't know it all. I value experienced input.....ESPECIALLY with things that go BOOM in the early dawn! God Bless....Sasquatch...Out.

Shawn

I would of bought a Pedersoli Schuetzen first except they make it only in a 45-70 .Long story short , both are very good and accurate , go for the gusto and get a 45-120 , you will love it .


RR
Not completely true....I bought a Pedersoli Schuetzen in 45-90 a few years ago from the original owner. I did try to check it out with Dick Trenk (the US Pedersoli rep) and he said he couldn't find the catalog number (stamped on the barrel) listed in his info. So, was it a one-off job, did someone put on the wrong barrel (then why the catalog number?), etc.? By the way, this rifle shoots very well, haven't experimented too much with different weight bullets, just 405 gr. cast so far with barrel sights. Have just put on a Soule tang sight and will be trying that out soon. And yes, this post keeps on going ....and going.... Emery