I am getting ready to purchase a rifle that I would like to use for an all around big game gun. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on the .300 Remington short action ultra mag? Any other suggestions would be great.

Thanks!

Well, ballistics are identical to the .300 Winchester Magnum, so I don't see any advantage except for the short action. Ammo won't be easy to find for a while, even if it becomes popular, and the Remington bean counters are notorious for dropping anything that doesn't sell like hotcakes. OK if you want something different, but it's a me-too load.
http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballistics/ballistics.htm

Bye
Jack

The case of the 300 RSUM is slightly better sized to properly seat heavier bullet weights than the 300 WSM. The case shoulder of the Remington is "softer" than the 300 WSM which may give the RSUM a slight edge in feeding reliability. If what you want is a short action "general" hunting rifle it will do just fine. Be careful to get at least a 24" barrel in the 300 RSUM. Any shorter your ballestics are in the 30-06 range with more recoil and muzzle blast.

I recognize the popularity of short action cartridges, but IMHO the short 300s don't give you anything the 300 Win does not already have. As already noted, Remington has introduced a cartridge only to essentially orphan it several years later (my only major problem with Remington). If this is one rifle among a varied rifle battery, go with the 300 RSUM, but if it is your big game rifle, then IHMO go with with 300 Win. (assuming you can handle the recoil - if not then consider the 30-06, 308, or 270).

Paulinas......I took some 20 year old handloaded 300 Win mag ammo to the rifle range the other day with my Chrony and set up to shoot downrange. We ran some of the 300WSM ammo through also.

My 300 Win mag and 180 grain bullets are doing a solid 3140fps with 20fps deviation. The factory 300WSM were clipping off 2980fps with 180 grn bullets.

What is your experience level? If you're just getting into rifles and hunting, and don't have alot of rifle experience, I think that I would stay away from any medium/large bore magnum as a first rifle, mostly due to recoil considerations. Most people find the .30-06 to be the upper limit in recoil in a sporter weight rifle, unless they shoot alot. Of course if your used to recoil from other long guns, e.g. shotguns, black powder, then knock yourself out. The .300 RSAUM is ballistically the same as the .300 WinMag, so should be effective on anything in North America, possibly excepting big Alaskan Brown/Grizzly Bears. If you're new to rifles it might be wise to go with a standard caliber such as .30-06, .308 Win, .270 Win, .280 Rem, 7mm-08, .260 Rem, 6.5x55 Swede etc. Any of these are also effective on everything in North America except the aforementioned bears, and will work on them with proper shot placement.

What is your experience level? If you're just getting into rifles and hunting, and don't have alot of rifle experience, I think that I would stay away from any medium/large bore magnum as a first rifle, mostly due to recoil considerations. Most people find the .30-06 to be the upper limit in recoil in a sporter weight rifle, unless they shoot alot. Of course if your used to recoil from other long guns, e.g. shotguns, black powder, then knock yourself out. The .300 RSAUM is ballistically the same as the .300 WinMag, so should be effective on anything in North America, possibly excepting big Alaskan Brown/Grizzly Bears. If you're new to rifles it might be wise to go with a standard caliber such as .30-06, .308 Win, .270 Win, .280 Rem, 7mm-08, .260 Rem, 6.5x55 Swede etc. Any of these are also effective on everything in North America except the aforementioned bears, and will work on them with proper shot placement.

Try this link www.shortmags.org
The forum has many knowledgable folks you can throw a query too.

Another thought is a .300 Weatherby Mag. WalMart has syn stocked Vanguards for $379 and wood stocks for $479. Guarenteed to shoot factory loads in 1 1/2" or send it back. I called all the stores in my area last year looking for one. I found a beautiful wooden stocked .300 Whby for $379. Good luck.

George

What's the main difference between the .300 Weatherby Mag, .300 Win Mag and .300 Rem Mag??

MikeJ- I have shot rifles and shotguns my entire life...so I don't think the recoil will be a problem.

spajr,

I say get it. I have a 300 SAUM and it's the RMEF special edition and I love everything about the gun. The Remington model 700 action in my opinion is smoother than the 300 WSM made by Winchester. Overal the gun just felt like it was made better. If you reload your own you don't need to worry about ammo popularity, plus you can find your rifles sweet spot like I did. for $20 you can order an aftermarket magazine that is longer than the stock magazine which lets you seat the 180 gr. bullet closer to the lands. This gave me awesome accuracy and more room for powder. I have heard of 3 people so far that said the SAUM model 700 like to run about .040 off the lands. The stock set-up will have you close to .125 off the lands. The SAUM and the WSM are so close as far as ballistics are concerned that I made my final decision on the actual gun and the proven model 700 action. The police and military have picked the 700 action for a reason. As far as recoil is concerned you will do just fine. When I first got mine I shot exactly 17 rounds in a t-shirt before it became a problem. If you are going to do extensive range work and accuracy testing then you can always ad a muzzle brake if necessary. I would recommend a VIAS brake installed by qualified individuals. It has to be perfect or the accuracy will pay. I really like the new SAUM .300 with the flutted barrels, however, when my barrel wears out I'm going to a 4 or 5R. Lots of upgrades are available if you desire, but the gun is great out of the box if you invest in a great scope.
Some may say it's to much gun...but they are missing the point. You can do anything with this gun if you reload. You can shoot light bullets all the way up to 200 grs. with great accuracy. I like one rifle that can do it all.
If you have any further questions feel free to ask.

www.shortmags.com is a great web sight for chat and tech support

Here is a link to the rifle I purchased in 2003...
http://www.shortmags.org/shortmags/ref_data/M700RMEF.pdf

Aaron

Paulinas......I took some 20 year old handloaded 300 Win mag ammo to the rifle range the other day with my Chrony and set up to shoot downrange. We ran some of the 300WSM ammo through also.

My 300 Win mag and 180 grain bullets are doing a solid 3140fps with 20fps deviation. The factory 300WSM were clipping off 2980fps with 180 grn bullets.


I don't know what your 300 Mag handloads had in hem but those velocities are faster than any published 300 Mag data I have seen for 180 gr bullets.( Assuming both had a 24 inch barrel)

I don't know what your 300 Mag handloads had in hem but those velocities are faster than any published 300 Mag data I have seen for 180 gr bullets.( Assuming both had a 24 inch barrel)

You must be buying the new reloading manuals sir!

I'll give you a load right out of the reloading manual called "Any Shot You Want" reloading manual using RL-22 powder and 180 grain bullets.

LOAD= RL22 @ 80 grains, velocity is 3166fps!

CUP = 46,700psi Average,

Rifle had a 24 inch barrel........My magnum rifles have 26 inch barrels, which will pick me up another 60 to 80fps. I have broken 3200fps with one of these rifle and NO signs of pressure, while using 2 separate Chrony's.

I been doing this for close to 40 years now and am well rehersed in what different manuals say, as I do have most that were printed, both passed and present.

To make a point, every rifle is going to be just a little different in final velocity, mostly because of barrels being longer or shorter, slower or faster. Manuals should be used as a guide line yes!

However, there are exceptions to every rule as far as velocity goes. Some barrels like I stated are as much as a 100fps faster than the one before it going down the assembly line in a facatory operation. Cheer's

spajr-
Didn't mean to imply anything, but I couldn't tell by your question your experience level.

The difference between the .300 Wby/.300 RUM and the .300 WinMag, .300 WSM and the .300 RSAUM is about 130-150 fps, given same length barrel and same weight bullet. Cost of ammo is higher, availability in certain locales will be less, but if you like it, go for it. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't a dimes worth of difference in any of the .300 Mags, with the exception of the .300-378 Wby, to make one better than the other. A game animal is not going to feel the difference or be any deader at the terminal end, and the differences in trajectory are minimal at best. It is all rather subjective, and dependent upon what you prefer. If you like a short action, go for a short magnum; the mythical difference in accuracy due to "shorter,fatter" powder column will not be apparent in almost any commercially manufactured sporter. If you prefer proven performance on game and ready availability of ammo, go for the .300 WinMag, it's been killing game effectively for almost 50 years. If you want to be "newest, neatest", go for either short mag or the .300 RUM. Rifle style is the same way, subjective. Get what you like, not what someone else says you should like.

MikeJ -

I wasn't offended at all-- it was a good and appropiate question. I'm sorry my answer came across as terse. Yesterday was a long day and I was not feeling overly verbose.

Thank you for your informative post. As far as the proven history, ammo availibility and similar perfomance, I think the .300 Win Mag makes the most sense.

Thanks again.

Stephen

MikeJ -

I wasn't offended at all-- it was a good and appropiate question. I'm sorry my answer came across as terse. Yesterday was a long day and I was not feeling overly verbose.

Thank you for your informative post. As far as the proven history, ammo availibility and similar perfomance, I think the .300 Win Mag makes the most sense.

Thanks again.

Stephen.........YES, the 300 Win mag does make the most logical direction for one to take in purchasing one of the 300 (.308) caliber rifles. I have always been able to find ammo across the USA when traveling from state to state. Now out West it is one of the 4 most popular calibers!

.300 Winchester Magnum, hands down, ammo is available everywhere, and rifles chambered for that caliber will be around in 10 years, I can't say that for the SAUM.

My only issue with the SAUM is ammo. Doesn't seem like you see it too often and also seems that Remington has left it for dead, they're now chambering the 300 WSM. Hands down I'd go with the 300 Winchester Magnum. I didn't see of you reload. If you don't, I would definately not get the SAUM, if you do, I'd stock up on brass.

You would do well to buy a .308 Winchester. The recoil is manageable, and it's a 400 yard rifle.

I am getting ready to purchase a rifle that I would like to use for an all around big game gun. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on the .300 Remington short action ultra mag? Any other suggestions would be great.

Thanks!


Unless you've really got your heart set on one of these short magnum things, and can't sleep at night cause you don't own one, then I'd give it a miss.

Go for a 30/06 or 300Win Mag, they have both proved them selves over a long period. Ammo, cases and rifles are available for them every where, and they have class. And not only that the 300Win Mag will reach and probably surpass the velocities of the new short magnum.

Don't forget that all of the 300's and the 30/06 fire the same projectiles, and at roughly the same speeds. Therefore what ever game animal you hit with one won't know if the projectile that killed it came from a 100 year old cartridge like a 30/06, or one of these new whiz bang super short magnums. It will be just as dead.

I've shot Water Buffalo (Asian), in the Northern Territory of Australia with the 300 Win Mag and scrub bulls in North Queensland, and those beasties were so impressed they just died on the spot. Can't ask for much more than that. And I reackon if I had of used a 30/06 they would have reacted in the same manner.

I'd be worrying more about projectile choice, and getting my new rifle sighted in, and practicing with it as often as possible on ranges from 100 to 500 yards. That will probably help you more in securing big game at long range than buying the latest gimmick that the rifle manufactures have come up with.

Good luck with what ever you get.

300 win mag would be my choice if i was looking for a magnum 30 cal, if your not dead set on getting a "magnum" take a very very good look at 308 or 30-06-much less recoil, uses less powder, and a more varied ammo selection if you arent a handloader. The 30-06 just turned 100 years young, odds are you will be able to find ammo for it in whatever flavor you like in another 50 years, cant say that about any of the flavor of the month magnums (NOT including the 300 Win and Weatherby, they are here to stay)

Have fun shooting whatever rifle you decide to purchase, Azure

Lots of good information here about the magnums. One thing I don't quite understand is if your going to shoot a magnum and want that super flat ability that a true magnum gives you why would you settle for guns that barely outshoot the old 30-06.

I've been shooting magnums for near 45 years now, starting with the 308 Norma and going up from there. I've got friends with 300 Win mags, 300 Weatherby mags, 300 Ultra-mags and some of the new 300 short mags. The only one I haven't chrono'ed is the 30-378 Weatherby.

My personal favorite over the last 20 years has been the 8mm Remington mag, but back to your question the best on the market for velocity I've seen over my chrono is the 300 Remington Ultra-mag. The pix at the bottom of this post is a shot of the Chrono showes 3384 for a 180 grain factory load 15 feet from the end of a 26 inch bbl. That is a real velocity gain over the rest of the "magnums" on the market.

I suppose the 30-378 Weatherby would also meet or exceed these velocities, but at much more cost. I spent lots of time behind several different magnums and unless your shooting a 300 win mag all the others really won't compare. The Rem Ultra-mag is going to give you the flattest shooting rifle your money can buy.

If our going to subject yourself to the recoil generated by these magnum cartridges why on earth would you shoot anything but the flattest shooting of the bunch?

I've seen my friend kill both deer and elk at six hundred yards with his Ultra-mag and even at those distances it kills well.

This summer I spent a day sighting in and chronographing a friends brand new Winchester 300 Short magnum. We were shooting Federal factory 180 grain ammo and none of those loads from a 24 inch barrel topped 2900 fps. I was not impressed. Recoil was not different than almost any 300 magnum I've fired. At those velocities I can't see any real gain in performance over an 06.

Anyway a person can always find a reason to buy the new gee-whiz cartridge, but if I was in the market for a new 30 caliber magnum there are only two I would even consider, the 300 Win mag and the new 300 Rem Ultra-mag. Anything else, well it's your money. You can drive around in a Yugo crowing about the gas mileage or shift that new corvette into sixth gear when you hit a hundred and fourty mph.

faucettb...you always have good info, but I'm going to disagree on the 300 WSM. Folks go to all sorts of trouble to wring an extra 100 fps out of a 30-06...but the 300 WSM does that and more.

I get almost 3100 fps w/ my 180 gr loads, but use my 300 WSM primarily for 200 grain loads at 2800 fps. That's a good 200 fps bump from the 30-06...and I get 1/2 moa accuracy. To me the recoil isn't any greater than my 30-06.

SO...merry Xmas!

faucettb...you always have good info, but I'm going to disagree on the 300 WSM. Folks go to all sorts of trouble to wring an extra 100 fps out of a 30-06...but the 300 WSM does that and more.

I get almost 3100 fps w/ my 180 gr loads, but use my 300 WSM primarily for 200 grain loads at 2800 fps. That's a good 200 fps bump from the 30-06...and I get 1/2 moa accuracy. To me the recoil isn't any greater than my 30-06.

SO...merry Xmas!

Lever my experience with it was with one factory load and a total of four hours on the range. I've no doubt that better loads could be worked out. I'ts just that I've owned several 300 Winchester mags and just didn't see the comparison that day. This was one of the camo stocked Win rifles and was pretty light so you can see where my recoil comparisons came from.

Actually my point was if your going to buy a magnum in 30 caliber why settle for 3000 or 3100 fps when for basically the same money you can shoot the same loads at almost 3400 fps.

I'm not doubting the usability of the Win 300 WSM it's just that the young fella's question began with what is the flattest shooting rifle.

I've been a "magnum" shooter most of my life and spent a lot of years plunking bullets downrange at game with first a 308 Norma mag, a 300 Win mag and finally since 1978 an 8mm Remington Mag.

Could I have killed as much game as well with standard cartridges? In all probability yes, in fact the longest game shot I ever made was with a 22 inch barreled 30-06 Ruger 77 in Alaska at a Dahl sheep at 650 yards.

I really do think that there is a place for all the new cartridges, in fact a new CZ varmit in 204 Ruger is now the replacement for my beautiful 1979 Ruger that went to my Granddaughter today for Christmas.

I just think that if your looking for horsepower in a rifle why buy a 350 V8 when you can put a 454 under the hood. Facing magnum recoil anyway shoot the fastest, after all it's just a little more powder. With good recoil pad technology and the proper muzzle brake that monster recoil can be brought down to 270 and 308 levels and still retain super flat trejectories.

No offense ment to the other new magnum cartridges on the market.

Lever my experience with it was with one factory load and a total of four hours on the range. I've no doubt that better loads could be worked out. I'ts just that I've owned several 300 Winchester mags and just didn't see the comparison that day. This was one of the camo stocked Win rifles and was pretty light so you can see where my recoil comparisons came from.

Actually my point was if your going to buy a magnum in 30 caliber why settle for 3000 or 3100 fps when for basically the same money you can shoot the same loads at almost 3400 fps.

I'm not doubting the usability of the Win 300 WSM it's just that the young fella's question began with what is the flattest shooting rifle.

I've been a "magnum" shooter most of my life and spent a lot of years plunking bullets downrange at game with first a 308 Norma mag, a 300 Win mag and finally since 1978 an 8mm Remington Mag.

Could I have killed as much game as well with standard cartridges? In all probability yes, in fact the longest game shot I ever made was with a 22 inch barreled 30-06 Ruger 77 in Alaska at a Dahl sheep at 650 yards.

I really do think that there is a place for all the new cartridges, in fact a new CZ varmit in 204 Ruger is now the replacement for my beautiful 1979 Ruger that went to my Granddaughter today for Christmas.

I just think that if your looking for horsepower in a rifle why buy a 350 V8 when you can put a 454 under the hood. Facing magnum recoil anyway shoot the fastest, after all it's just a little more powder. With good recoil pad technology and the proper muzzle brake that monster recoil can be brought down to 270 and 308 levels and still retain super flat trejectories.

No offense ment to the other new magnum cartridges on the market.

no offense taken...since I'm likely due for shoulder surgery next year, I may be moving down to the 243's anyway.

While I tried to duplicate factory velocities with my 300RUM, I found it impossible with any of the powders I tried with 180 grain bullets. I tried H1000, Retumbo, H50BMG, IMR4831, H4831SC, R25 and finally IMR7828. I never broke the 3300 fps barrier with any kind of accuacy. My final load ended up being 89.5 grains of IMR7828 and a 180 Scirroco II's at a velocity of 3270 fps and a group of less than 1/2 m.o.a.

Anyway kind of getting off track here. The 300SAUM is going to die a slow death IMO. There are already to many 30 cals. out there that fill in the gaps between the 30-06 and the 30 378.

Of the 3, 300 mags, I'd go with the 300RUM. Brass is plentyfull, it's as easy on the shoulder as the 300Winmag and it's made by Sako and I beleave Kimber if you don't like Remingtons.

RJ

I don't have a 300 magnum of any caliber and rely on my .30-06 and my .30-30 for most of my hunting. I hunt mostly in WV and those are two of the best calibers for our hunting in my opinion. With that said, I do have a friend that uses a Model 70 .300 RUM and saw what it does to whitetail are relatively close ranges. I don't know if I would say it is "too much gun" but I will say I don't think it is the best option if you are shooting at 300 yards or less. The .30-06 is fine for those ranges. It also depends on what you are hunting. I can see where you guys that hunt mostly in the west with wide open, long range shots would really like this gun. There is no question about the performance. If I had a reason to buy one it would certainly be the .300 RUM or even the .338 RUM. We talked about this on another thread when I was considering it and it was great discussion. I just think it is hard to beat the performance of those two calibers if your hunting application calls for that type of rifle.

I own both 300 Win Mag and 7mm Rem Mag guns. Of the two I favor the 7mm. It makes more sense to me than does the 300. If I had it to do over again I would look for something bigger than a 30 caliber in a magnum package. I have come to think even a 338-06 makes more sense than an 300 magnum in any flavor. This might draw some critisisim but I don't see any advantage over the 7mm....more recoil with the same knock-down power. Bigger bore choices are available and well worth the look see.

....it's as easy on the shoulder as the 300Winmag and it's made by Sako and I beleave Kimber if you don't like Remingtons.


RJ, you must have a lot of padding on your shoulder, I thought the RUM was more like a 338 WM...maybe I'm just sensitive.. :D

Anyway if you're looking for all out horsepower, unless you want to spent the big $$ for a 30-378 or go one better with the 7.82 Warbird, the 300 RUM is the best deal you can get on that performance, I've no doubts on that. But does it kick!

I've often mused about rechambering my 8mm Rem mag to an 8mm/300RUM. Kinda the best of both worlds. Probably would just settle for the 338 RUM for another big bore magnum.

One thing RifleFan said I can concur with is the 30 caliber or even the 7mm at closer ranges can sure make a mess our of a deer, thing is even a 270 or an 06 with light bullets does the same thing. I've had better results with bigger bores, one of the reasons the 8mm and 338 work well at closer ranges.

Recoil Junky I helped my buddy work up his handloads and he's getting the same results you are. 3300 is about his top out. He's going to try some Retumbo next. That is one of the powders that will give 3150 with the 8mm Rem mag. My best load with H 4831 in my 8 give me 3080 fps. I havn't tried Retumbo either. I guess it's because I've a couple of pounds of 4831 sitting around and it'll take a while to shoot that stuff up. I use it in the 280 Remington so it will be gone some day.

I'll agree that the 300 or 338 RUM's are the most bang for your buck on the market now for the biggest and baddest. As far as kick all these big boys kick. When Remington brought out the 8mm mag they advertised it had no more recoil than the 300 Win mag.

I've got to say I can't tell any difference between it and my friends 300 RUM and not much difference between it and several 300 Win mags I've shot. I do enjoy shooting the big boomers and don't seem to be overly recoil sensitive though.

As I get older I've found the need for these big boomers lessening and finally passed on both my Ruger 44 mag Blackhawks to some younger more eager fellas to chase deer and bear around with handguns.

Bottom line is if your looking for a true magnum performance I'd suggest the 300 RUM or better yet the 338 RUM.

Neither the CDL or the Sendero in 300RUM kick all that bad, IMO. I'd rank it with the 35 Whelen. IMO, my 7mag kicks with more "punch" than the 300. I have fired 3 different 338's and didn't think they were as bad as my 7 mag. And yes I'm pretty tough :D At 6'3" and 250lbs, there might be some natural padding there too :o

As faucettb stated, most any modern cartridge should not be fired at game at too close a range or with the wrong bullet if you are concerned with meat damage. Now, the .338RUM DOES pack a punch. :eek:

The reason I went with the 300RUM over the 7mm Rem mag (mine is in 700 Classic) is the terrain I now hunt in. Open expanses of prarrie and sagebrush flats with little or no cover. If you remember my pictures of Hunting Buddies , thats the country I mostly hunt now. The 7 mag is good I feel out to 400-450 yards, MAYBE 500 but I'd rather not take the chance. The 300RUM with a 180 grain bullet at 3270 fps only drops 24 inches from line of sight at 500 yards where the 7mag with a 150 drops in the neighborhood of 34". My "excuse" for missing is mostly my fault. I should have shot the 300 again after it went for a ride in my hardcase in the back of the truck during Hunting Buddies, but I didn't so I was a little hard on myself fot that.

Yes the 30-06 is a great big game rifle. So is the (thought I'd never say this) .270. My 30-06 has probably killed more game than my 7mag, 300RUM and 35 Whelen ever will but they all have their place.

The key to any hunting rifle is trigger time. The more time you can spend shooting that rifle with accuacy at multiple ranges will give you the confidence you need when the time comes to make a difficult shot. More often than not, I find myself passing on shots rather than risk wounding and possibly losing the animal. This may have come with age, but a lot of it has come with experience. Think of packing an elk out a place called the "Tree Fort". If that name by itself doesn't conjure up nightmares for you I can tell it was pure H377! I decided NEVER again would I be put in that situation. That little jaunt was caused by youthful exuberance, inexperience, not enough gun and greed. None of which came from me. It was almost the end of a 30 year friendship to boot. Now I can think about the experience and laugh, but it took a long time to get there. :eek:

I still have a lot of trigger time with the 300 before I know what to expect from it and this spring I intend to get back at it so by next fall I will be in elk meat again!!! I may even choose not to take it, but chances are slim, as I usually take 3 or 4 rifles along. :rolleyes:

Whatever you shoot, shoot it safely and with the confidence that only practice can bring.

RJ

One of my hunting buddies shoots both the 300 RUM and now a 7mm STW with a ported 26 inch bbl. He likes both really well and though this is the first year he's harvested both elk and deer with the 7mm STW he is impressed with the way both shoot.

Last year he shot an elk at just over 600 yards with the 300 RUM. One shot right thru the front shoulders and down goes Mr. elk.

The 7mm STW has a muzzle brake on it and both he and I was amazed at the difference in Recoil. With his hunting loads of 175 grainers pushed as fast as he could get them without pressure signs it was much like shooting my 280 Remington Mountian rifle.

Right now he has his 300 Rum getting a new premium barrel and the same brake as on the 7mm STW. He's having the action blue printed and possibly a composite stock put in. This is a blue gun where his 7mm is stainless so it's going to end up with an armaloy finish for weather resistance. I'm eagerly awaiting seeing what it will do when he gets it back.

You sure hit the nail on the head about practice. I can't tell you how many folks I see prior to hunting season sighting in their rifles from the hood of the pickup propped over a rolled up coat.

This is usually the only shooting done prior to going hunting and they have no idea how or where the gun shoots from field positions.

I've always held that one of the best big game hunting tools available is a good 22 long rifle in the same action as your big game gun. Shoot a brick of shells a month from field positions every month. Start with the big game rifle about two months prior to hunting season and put a couple of boxes of ammo thru it from those same field positions. Shoot at least to 300 yards and if your in the type of country that allows for long shots at least see where that gun is shooting out to 5 or 600 yards.

There's nothing on earth that improves your shooting like shooting. Take someone with you, kids work well they love to shoot and teaching them helps your shooting just by remembering the basics of markmanship. Course now your up to two bricks a month.

Faucettb.....If this thread is about shooting Long Distance, I can say, that I have no trouble in hitting deer size targets at 700 yards with my 7mm magnum model 70 Winchester.

I shoot it prone and don't need a muzzle brake, that will kick all that debris back into my face.....worse with shale rock etc.
I have seen hunters use the 7mm mag, to do like wise on live game at 700 and 800 yards. It is all about dialing in that scope and making the hit.

If I were not using a scope compensator, I would simply limit my shooting much farther in but the answer is NOT bigger magnums for shoooting far. The answer to the equation of scoring or harvesting game at long range, is about being able to be as accurate as one can be and that simply means holding perfectly still (not letting recoil cause you to move via a flinch) when squeezing and holding that rifle in your hands.

Great discussion guys. To take shots at those types of ranges, and I mean over 500 yards, takes practice and lots of it. I don't really need a lot of punch over 400 yards because I think that is just about the limit of my ability. I practice all year and shoot frequently. I know that under 400 I am good. Over 400 would be guessing and a shot I am not really comfortable with so I don't even consider them. Although the 06 is fine for black bear the 300 and 338 RUM would be my next choice by far. I wouldn't bother with the RSAUM or the WSM. If I ever save up enough to go out west it will be with the 300 or 338 RUM. Bryce Towsley (sp?) had a great article on this subject in the October (I think) 2003 American Hunter.

Faucettb.....If this thread is about shooting Long Distance, I can say, that I have no trouble in hitting deer size targets at 700 yards with my 7mm magnum model 70 Winchester.

I shoot it prone and don't need a muzzle brake, that will kick all that debris back into my face.....worse with shale rock etc.
I have seen hunters use the 7mm mag, to do like wise on live game at 700 and 800 yards. It is all about dialing in that scope and making the hit.

If I were not using a scope compensator, I would simply limit my shooting much farther in but the answer is NOT bigger magnums for shoooting far. The answer to the equation of scoring or harvesting game at long range, is about being able to be as accurate as one can be and that simply means holding perfectly still (not letting recoil cause you to move via a flinch) when squeezing and holding that rifle in your hands.

Cozy I'll just have to agree with you a hundred percent. It's really the shooter being able to shoot and practicing at the ranges he plans on shooting at. I did some thousand yard shooting at one time and even longer once in my career. One of the rifles used was the 7mm Rem mag and it is very capable. Even a cartridge like the 308 is capable of very acceptable accuracy at seven and eight hundred yards in the hands of a marksman.

Like everything else lots of folks think horsepower is the answer to everything even if they are totally unable to handle it. I've always felt that the shooter is 75% of the equation. Good equipment does help though.

I'll give you another option. My favorite 30 caliber cartridge is the 300 H&H Magnum. Easy to load for, mine is very accurate in a pre-64 Model 70 Winchester, slightly exceeds the Winchester Magnum velocities when using the heavier bullets and handloaded and is very shootable. The long sloping case feeds like water on ice. Besides, Nosler will be making brass for it in 2007, and all reports thus far, it should be match quality. A lot of us that shoot the old "Super 30" are very excited about this new developement.

Any of the 30 caliber cartridges are good game killers, many of them are great. You won't go wrong picking any of them, from the 308 Winchester to the 300 RUM. Get one, load for it, practice with, practice some more, really learn it and you'll will be very happy with its service.

Nobody has said anything about the 30-378 WBY, it puts the .300 Ultra Lag to shame.

For everybody that says the .300 Magnums are barely edging out the 30-06, look at the ballistics, the .300 Magnums are far superior at retaining energy and velocity at longer ranges.

I own both 300 Win Mag and 7mm Rem Mag guns. Of the two I favor the 7mm. It makes more sense to me than does the 300. If I had it to do over again I would look for something bigger than a 30 caliber in a magnum package. I have come to think even a 338-06 makes more sense than an 300 magnum in any flavor. This might draw some critisisim but I don't see any advantage over the 7mm....more recoil with the same knock-down power. Bigger bore choices are available and well worth the look see.
The .300 Win Mag has 3500 ft lbs with factory ammo, while the most powerful 7mm mag load has 3250, the .300 Win Mag can shoot heavier bullets, the .300 Win Mag is an all around better cartridge for hunting llarger game. I'd take even the 30-06 over the 7mmRem mag any day.

For everybody that says the .300 Magnums are barely edging out the 30-06, look at the ballistics, the .300 Magnums are far superior at retaining energy and velocity at longer ranges.

Chantecler I was comparing the 300 Winchester Short Magnum to the 30-06. When I sighted in a friends new 300 Win short mag I was using 180 grain Federal factory loads and I didn't break 2900 fps. Thats not a lot of gain on the 30-06.

However I shot both the fine 308 Norma mag and it's factory sister the 300 Winchester mag and I could get well over 3100 fps with both, true magnum cartridges and I've never been able to get much more out of a full length 300 Weatherby over my chrono.

So I absolutly agree with you.

Chantecler I was comparing the 300 Winchester Short Magnum to the 30-06. When I sighted in a friends new 300 Win short mag I was using 180 grain Federal factory loads and I didn't break 2900 fps. Thats not a lot of gain on the 30-06.

However I shot both the fine 308 Norma mag and it's factory sister the 300 Winchester mag and I could get well over 3100 fps with both, true magnum cartridges and I've never been able to get much more out of a full length 300 Weatherby over my chrono.

So I absolutly agree with you.
faucett, regarding your chrono incident with the .300 WSM, I have been very disappointed with the factory ammo of the .300 WSM, I honestly don't believe the factories load it quite as hot as they claim, I think the .300 Win Mag is ultimately far superior, in every way. The .300 Win Mag has consitantly performed as claimed in all of the chrony tests i have done at the range.

faucett, regarding your chrono incident with the .300 WSM, I have been very disappointed with the factory ammo of the .300 WSM, I honestly don't believe the factories load it quite as hot as they claim, I think the .300 Win Mag is ultimately far superior, in every way. The .300 Win Mag has consitantly performed as claimed in all of the chrony tests i have done at the range.

My experience is the same. Back in 1979 I went to the Remington 8mm mag. Shoot a 220 grain Sierra at 3080 fps. Great flat shooter, good energy carried to the game and not near as destrictive on meat as a 270.

My experience is the same. Back in 1979 I went to the Remington 8mm mag. Shoot a 220 grain Sierra at 3080 fps. Great flat shooter, good energy carried to the game and not near as destrictive on meat as a 270.
I just wish the 8mm mag would have been more popular, it doesn't seem any less viable as a big game cartridge than the .30 cal magnums.

I just wish the 8mm mag would have been more popular, it doesn't seem any less viable as a big game cartridge than the .30 cal magnums.

8mm cartridges never were popular here. When Remington used a full length 375 case for the big 8 thay took a chance. It is a great game cartridge and during the five years I spent in Alaska accounted for four big coastal browns. None took more than one shot.

it's killed a pile of moose, elk and deer and though it's more gun than needed down here in Idaho the game never seemed to notice.

8mm cartridges never were popular here. When Remington used a full length 375 case for the big 8 thay took a chance. It is a great game cartridge and during the five years I spent in Alaska accounted for four big coastal browns. None took more than one shot.

it's killed a pile of moose, elk and deer and though it's more gun than needed down here in Idaho the game never seemed to notice.
I have seriously looked into the .325 WSM, but, after seeing how overrated the others were, I reconsidered it, the short mags just cannot match their long action brethren, and the factory ammo listings for the short mags is very unachieveable.

I have seriously looked into the .325 WSM, but, after seeing how overrated the others were, I reconsidered it, the short mags just cannot match their long action brethren, and the factory ammo listings for the short mags is very unachieveable.

I'm at the point where I can't really hunt anymore, but If I was considering a new magnum it would be one of the following.

8mm Rem mag, great cartridge especially if used with the two 220 grain bullets designed for it the 220's by Sierra and Hornedy. For Bear in Alaska the 250 grain Woodly shines.

The 8mm Ultra-mag wildcat, all the good of the standard with another 200 fps on tap.

The 338 ultra-mag. Some great .338 bullets available and flat shooting as my 8mm mag.

There's just something about bullets above 32 caliber that kill well and don't tear up meat like the smaller bores at high velocity.

I'm at the point where I can't really hunt anymore, but If I was considering a new magnum it would be one of the following.

8mm Rem mag, great cartridge especially if used with the two 220 grain bullets designed for it the 220's by Sierra and Hornedy. For Bear in Alaska the 250 grain Woodly shines.

The 8mm Ultra-mag wildcat, all the good of the standard with another 200 fps on tap.

The 338 ultra-mag. Some great .338 bullets available and flat shooting as my 8mm mag.

There's just something about bullets above 32 caliber that kill well and don't tear up meat like the smaller bores at high velocity.
I have just recently become a huge fan of the medium bores, I believe the medium bores kill better than any 30 cal or smaller cartridge, I do not, however, like the .35 cal family very much, lack of bullets and factory ammo. I have been impressed with the 8mm Mag, though, I wish it would have been more prevalent.