I use a Marlin 1894C in .38/.357 for woods carry, racoon extermination on the farm, and target practice. I love the gun and am going to hunt deer for the first time this fall with it. The research I've done so far suggests that if I don't reload I should use Remington 180SJHP, Federal 180SJHP, or Federal 180 hard cast lead bullets for deer hunting. My personal limitation with iron sights is 75 to 100 yards. I can make 3-4" groups with 158SJSP and similar results with the 180s.

Anyone have a recommendation or personal experience with this gun and potential hunting target to share with me?

I use a Marlin 1894C in .38/.357 for woods carry, racoon extermination on the farm, and target practice. I love the gun and am going to hunt deer for the first time this fall with it. The research I've done so far suggests that if I don't reload I should use Remington 180SJHP, Federal 180SJHP, or Federal 180 hard cast lead bullets for deer hunting. My personal limitation with iron sights is 75 to 100 yards. I can make 3-4" groups with 158SJSP and similar results with the 180s.

Anyone have a recommendation or personal experience with this gun and potential hunting target to share with me?


I would check out federal's cast lead bullets. Aren't those the Cast Core name? if you reload Try some of the Beartooth bullets.

mattpair,
Thanks for the reply. You're right, the Federals are called cast core in 180gr 357. I've been using the Sellier & Bellot 158gr SJSP for the past year. They do a great job on the racoons and coyotes in the yard. The last few racoons dropped like they had a heart attack. The entry and exit wounds were so small it took a while to find them. The bullet exited and hit a big oak 15' behind the dead racoon and penetrated the tree about 1.5". I'm just not sure that 158gr is enough weight to drop a deer quickly even with a well placed shot.

I used to use 125gr SJHP 357s on the racoons. They had a 4" exit wound, but they still crawled or ran about 40 yards before dropping. I thought the expansion would do the trick, but it seems like the soft points drilling a hole wor better.

I think I'll try those cast core bullets at the range and see how accurate they are in my favorite lever gun. If not I'll go back to the Rems in 180SJHP.

Try the CastCore, they WILL kill a deer, I can assure you... I have a nearly identical handload that works fine from a revolver. Bust a shoulder for best results, the cast bullet shouldn't ruin much meat.

I think that there is a Nosler Partition load available also.

With .357 ammo in a rifle, you are pushing that to velocities the manufacturer may not have expected. They may also have some insight or customer reports into how it will perform in the field.

As you've seen, some bullets are very explosive from the rifle, and some hardly appear to expand at all, despite the increase in velocity.

If anyone else on the forum can give you positive field reports with other .357 ammo in rifles, that would be great. All I can tell you is what I've used, which is cast in a revolver. Been meaning to try some 158gr. XTPs in my Blackhawk.... so many loads, so few varmits! :D

How about these?

http://www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?cPath=65_1_10&products_id=252

160 gr. Truncated +P+ moving at 1400 fps in a pistol. Would these make a good Deer Hunting round in a 357 Lever Action Carbine. I think shooting them out of the carbine would increase the speed to around 1800 fps. The weight and the speed look ok. I just have questions about the bullet.

The price is also right.

Geoff

Hmmm, hard to say, with a non-expanding bullet, the meplat or flat part of the nose is critical. Wider is better (creates a bigger wound channel).

That one looks a bit small, in my opinion, but then again you gain some wounding with the extra velocity of the rifle.

For the first hunt, honestly, I think I'd stick with something that people here can give you first-hand reports on.

The Miwall round looks interesting. I've not tried any of their ammo or spoken with anyone who has. I'd love to hear more about them. For deer I think I'll stick to the Federal 180gr CastCores I have on order, but Miwall could change my mind with that kind of velocity.

I read the review and am glad someone else feels like I do about carrying only a .22 or .410 for squirrel hunting. Central and southern Missouri is a real friendly place for feral hogs. One friend almost lost a cleanly killed deer last year to a mountain lion. He searched all over and found it under a pile of leaves in a ravine. It had quite a few large fang marks on it. He jumped on his ATV and ran back to the truck. Left his bow in the cab and came back with his .44 mag on his side while he gathered up the deer. He's spotted the cat since then so he carries the .44 any time he is more than spitting distance from the back door.

Thanks again for the input.
BFPGW

Don't sweat the velocity differences; you can play with the numbers, but probably an inch or two in trajectory to 125-150 yards, at best. Comparing the numbers in the Hornady manual, the 160gr. truncated cone vs. their 180gr., even if you give the 160gr. bullet a 200fps velocity advantage, it's less than in inch drop difference at 150 yards. The 180gr. WFN on the Federaly CastCore might not be quite as streamlined as the Hornady 180gr. jacketed, but I'd guess maybe an additional inch drop at that range.

Anyway - good luck with your deer hunting!

I love the Federal 180 gr CastCore and so does my Marlin! I've had great success using them on deer, although at closer ranges than you mention. I've noticed quite a difference in the ballistic curve of the CastCores compared with the S&B 158's -- spend some time at the target range because you may want to re-zero.

You're right about re-zeroing. I've already compiled a book on which sight settings to use on 158S&B/357 for backyard all purpose, 125Win/38 for short yardage rabbits, etc. This gets more like work the more you learn, doesn't it? Just add one more with the Federal 180CC/357.

I can't wait to get to the range Saturday. My shipment of Federals comes in Wednesday. I'll let you know how they fare after sighting in. Then all that's left is to run across something with a white tail.

BFPGW

I am using the marlin 44mag,&trying to develop an acc-low vel load for it for sil shooting,noluck so far

I use a Marlin 1894C in .38/.357 for woods carry, racoon extermination on the farm, and target practice. I love the gun and am going to hunt deer for the first time this fall with it. The research I've done so far suggests that if I don't reload I should use Remington 180SJHP, Federal 180SJHP, or Federal 180 hard cast lead bullets for deer hunting. My personal limitation with iron sights is 75 to 100 yards. I can make 3-4" groups with 158SJSP and similar results with the 180s.

Anyone have a recommendation or personal experience with this gun and potential hunting target to share with me?

What...you aren't going to go to the nearest Wally_World, buy the cheapest possible .357mag. ammo, not sight it in, but take it straight from the store to the deer fields? IF you don't do that, how do you expect to add to the stroes of .357mag. failure on game?

IF you're not careful, you may discover that the .357 does a fine job on deer when you select and test the right loads.... if you did that, took it hunting, and was sadisfied, the multitude of the folks that do what I outlined above would never believe you.

What...you aren't going to go to the nearest Wally_World, buy the cheapest possible .357mag. ammo, not sight it in, but take it straight from the store to the deer fields? IF you don't do that, how do you expect to add to the stroes of .357mag. failure on game?

IF you're not careful, you may discover that the .357 does a fine job on deer when you select and test the right loads.... if you did that, took it hunting, and was sadisfied, the multitude of the folks that do what I outlined above would never believe you.

The funny part of all this is, if a 357 Mag. revolver can take deer out to 50 yards. The 357 rifle with 180 gr. loads ballistics are dead even at 150 yards with the 50 yard ballistics of the revolver. Its funny how people say you can not cleanly take deer with a 357 rifle over 100 yards.

You may want to check out the new 180 grain hard-cast load from Buffalo Bore. They seem to have access to a new powder that’s pushing bullets faster than anyone else- without raising pressure.

Darrel

Thanks again for more useful information and encouragement. I too am skeptical of those who make claims that .357 can't do deer. There's a lot more people who do sloppy work and blame anything but them for their failures. The Federals came in last Wednesday. They're ugly, no shiny copper jackets but I don't care how they look as long as they do the job.

Now that I have the Federal Cast Cores what do I do with the Remington 180 grain SJHP I bought several months ago? They're expensive for target ammo at $23.50/50. Are these reasonable to use for deer too or should I save them for racoons, coyotes, and meth dealers in the woods?

Ribbonstone,
Wally World is for those who don't know they don't know. The cost of an error is less, but you still have to learn a little to understand the difference. Shocking isn't it?

Gotta go to the range now. Urban deer season in my MO county starts October 8 and their is a nice mature doe visiting my back yard daily for the past two years. Hate to see her go, but I'll enjoy her visits to the dinner table more than her strolls through the yard.

BFPGW

If you are going to use lead bullets why not buy some Beartooth from the people who bring you this fourm. We ought to support them as much as possible to keep this fourm available. We have lost the Marlin forum and a few others last year. If I were going to use a lead one I would probably use the Beartooth 160 or 180 gr goinhg around 1800 with the 160 and 1600- 1700 for the 180. My bet is that with either one you would get complete penatration on a broad side shot and they would break a sholder if needed and get to the vitals. Some of the Micrio-groove barrles are a little picky about lead bullets that haven't got a long bearing surface on the riflings. If you can't get a lead bullet to work. Try some Hornady, Speer. Nosler, or Remington 158 - 180 gr jacketed soft point. They shoot great in my 357 Marlin and I have killed 200+ pound Mule deer with them.

Good luck with whatever you do, and good hunting.

The 180's will work well for deer sized game, and I've seen some .357 rifles that won't shoot anything lighter than that very well. Some guns just like them, other's put all of them in the 10 ring, no problems. I like the idea of having a semi-jacketed HP for the fact that you'll have the energy to penetrate plus the tip will do some expanding and enlarge the wound channel for quicker kills. Coons and deer are different critters, so I don't think bullet performance is going to stay the same from one to the other.
Thanks again for more useful information and encouragement. I too am skeptical of those who make claims that .357 can't do deer. There's a lot more people who do sloppy work and blame anything but them for their failures. The Federals came in last Wednesday. They're ugly, no shiny copper jackets but I don't care how they look as long as they do the job.

Now that I have the Federal Cast Cores what do I do with the Remington 180 grain SJHP I bought several months ago? They're expensive for target ammo at $23.50/50. Are these reasonable to use for deer too or should I save them for racoons, coyotes, and meth dealers in the woods?

Ribbonstone,
Wally World is for those who don't know they don't know. The cost of an error is less, but you still have to learn a little to understand the difference. Shocking isn't it?

Gotta go to the range now. Urban deer season in my MO county starts October 8 and their is a nice mature doe visiting my back yard daily for the past two years. Hate to see her go, but I'll enjoy her visits to the dinner table more than her strolls through the yard.

BFPGW

When I see how weak the old .44 Henry Rimfire, .44-40 WCF, and .38-40 WCF were and are, but managed to kill a boatload of American game for quite a few years, I don't think you'll be undergunned at all, especially with a good bullet and good shot placement. As was stated in these forums previously, It's amazing that rounds such as the .30-30, .35 Rem, and .357 Mag are barely adequate for deer out of a rifle, but overwhelmingly powerful out of a Contender or long barreled revolver. Go figure.

Just back from the gravel pit. I set targets at 10, 20, 33, and 50 yards. Using the Federal 180 CC I found the bullet flight essentially flat between 20 - 50 yards; with my zero on 33 yards, a little "Tennessee elevation" at 20 yards allowed me to keep the same zero. I hunt at archery distances, but if I wanted to take a shot a 50 yards I'd just move from a head shot to the heart/lung area.

Out of curiosity, I brought some S&B 158s along for comparison. At 50 yards they were consistently in the 7 to 8 o'clock area, off the black. My barrel was warm then so I didn't try to re-zero. Any general findings other shooters may have found concerning warm barrel shots?

I see that CorBon offers .357 in 180 gr soft point and a 200 gr (!) hard cast bullet in their line of hunting ammo. Anyone have any experience with them? I've never bought any CorBon ammo but they have a pretty good reputation for hot loads in the personal defense line -- might be worth trying.

I can't hunt with my 1894CP in Indiana but will be using my Ruger GP100 6" for deer this season. I'm a fan of Buffalo Bore ammo. Might want to take a look at them.

Both my revolver and rifle really like the 180gr Hardcast Gas Check Buffalo Bore round. With the Gas Check no problem with leading. Clean burning, low flash.

Checked with my Chrony.

BB 180gr HCGC
Revolver 6" barrel 1400fps 783fpe (My deer load)
Rifle 16.25" barrel 1800fps 1295fpe

There other loads

125gr Gold Dot
Revolver 1700fps 802fpe
Rifle 2275fps 1436fpe

158gr Gold Dot
Revolver 1500fps 789fpe
Rifle 2100fps 1547fpe (My varmint load)

170gr Gold Dot
Haven't tested yet