Good day everyone :)

I am thinking about building a 416 rifle. I am told that the Remington version is a powder hog and kicks like an ugly mule. I have also heard the the 416 Taylor is frugal on powder and has much less recoil because of the difference in powder used, all the while keeping the same performance as th Rigby or Remington 416's.
Also the Taylor will work in a standard length Mauser
Anyone out there that can give good adult guidance on these.
I have eliminated the Rigby because of the cost of brass and ammo. But need advice on the choice betwen the other two.

Thanks
Tekaan

All the data I've got here shows the Taylor peaks out at 2300 fps with 400 grain bullets while the Remington makes 2400 or a bit more with 6-8 grains more powder. Running those numbers though the recoil equations in Hatcher's Notebook gives 55 ft. lb. recoil for the Taylor and 62 ft. lb. for the Remington with a 9 lb. rifle. The Rigby is a different cat, as standard loads operate at much lower pressure that the smaller two, very handy if it's 120°F. On the other hand you can load it to .416 Weatherby levels. After all, the big Weatherby case is just a Rigby with a belt added.

Get a copy of Handloader #180, April 1996 for a fair bit of Taylor data.

Bye
Jack

Good day everyone :)

I am thinking about building a 416 rifle. I am told that the Remington version is a powder hog and kicks like an ugly mule. I have also heard the the 416 Taylor is frugal on powder and has much less recoil because of the difference in powder used, all the while keeping the same performance as th Rigby or Remington 416's.
Also the Taylor will work in a standard length Mauser
Anyone out there that can give good adult guidance on these.
I have eliminated the Rigby because of the cost of brass and ammo. But need advice on the choice betwen the other two.

Thanks
Tekaan
Dear Tekaan,
Several years ago I made up a 416 Taylor on a 03-a3 and McGowan xx barrel. He took it to Africa on a hunt and said it performed as well as a 416 Rigby on the Cape Buffs and such. He is very happy with it.
Aloha, Mark

Good day everyone :)

I am thinking about building a 416 rifle. I am told that the Remington version is a powder hog and kicks like an ugly mule. I have also heard the the 416 Taylor is frugal on powder and has much less recoil because of the difference in powder used, all the while keeping the same performance as th Rigby or Remington 416's.
Also the Taylor will work in a standard length Mauser
Anyone out there that can give good adult guidance on these.
I have eliminated the Rigby because of the cost of brass and ammo. But need advice on the choice betwen the other two.

Thanks
Tekaan
If you pick up a CZ or Ruger M77, or No.1 in 416 Rigby, you might actually save a few dollars over a custom, or at least customized 416 Taylor. The savings could be spent on brass, all other reloading components are going to be the same price (you'll use more powder, though). I'd go for the Rigby version, personally. Pressure for the same performance is much lower. Or at the same pressure the Rigby delivers much more performance than the Taylor or Remington version.

Tekaan......I have a friend how had a .416 Taylor built!
He sunk a lot of cash into this project that cost him over $3500 dollars at the time some almost 5 years ago.

His rifle has a 24 inch Kreiger barrel and custom McMillen stock, with a beautiful burl walnut stock as well to show off to friends. It has English express sights etc.

His Max load for that rifle before pressure signs was 2270fps.
He has taken 2 Cape Buffalo with the rifle and Lion as well, all with no hang ups or problems. However, he is looking for a
bigger caliber he says for his next hunt on Cape Buffalo.

The last hunt he was on, he had to shoot that bull buffalo 5 times and his PH shot it twice. The first shot was a slight bit off and he missed the shoulder, going to far back.

I believe the Taylor is the slowest of all the .416 calibers to date! I own a model 70 in a .416 Remington which has done well so far. It used 400 grain solids and got 2435fps out of them in this rifle as MAX.

Thank You 2Bits,
One question about the 416 Reminton you have is it a new pre-64 style action or the post 64? I have a little African hunting experience but only one Cape Buffalo. It was a one shot kill with my 375 at about 25 yds. I want the 416 for a future hunt that I hope to make for Buff, and elephant. Everything I have heard about them is that they are a vast improvment over the wonderful 375 HH. Your information is very helpful. How is the recoil?
Regards
Tekaan


Tekaan......I have a friend how had a .416 Taylor built!
He sunk a lot of cash into this project that cost him over $3500 dollars at the time some almost 5 years ago.

His rifle has a 24 inch Kreiger barrel and custom McMillen stock, with a beautiful burl walnut stock as well to show off to friends. It has English express sights etc.

His Max load for that rifle before pressure signs was 2270fps.
He has taken 2 Cape Buffalo with the rifle and Lion as well, all with no hang ups or problems. However, he is looking for a
bigger caliber he says for his next hunt on Cape Buffalo.

The last hunt he was on, he had to shoot that bull buffalo 5 times and his PH shot it twice. The first shot was a slight bit off and he missed the shoulder, going to far back.

I believe the Taylor is the slowest of all the .416 calibers to date! I own a model 70 in a .416 Remington which has done well so far. It used 400 grain solids and got 2435fps out of them in this rifle as MAX.
:p

Hi Tekaan!


I would recommed the .416Rigby. It`s a classic round that
has the power to take anykind of bulletweight from
260-500grain!! I have been making the 500grain bullet hid
dead on along with my 400grainers a 100 meters, something
only the weatherby do!! The 416Rigby is much underloaded to it`s true potential, but loaded to the original ballistics your brass can be loaded as much as 15X+ due to the low pressure
it only develops!. I have heard that there is a small controversy about the extra belt(invented by Holland & Holland) on many magnum cartridges causing feeding and reloading problems, but that controversy will only something you will get to read about choosing the Rigby!!. My own rifle
is a costum built on the Reimer Johannesen m98 action with the straddle floorplate having 4+1 in capacity. I can highly
recommend the CZ 550 magnum in .416Rigby built with the
big mauser claw extraction and controlled feed. I started with
such a rifle and it doesn`t cost an arm or leg. If you choose the CZ, have your sights regulated so they fit( they don`t always get it right at the CZ plant)!!.In reloading the .416Rigby you have a catridge that will eat fast to slow burning riflepowders(IMR 3031- 7828).

My Ruger #1 in 416 Rigby cost me $625.00 used, including dies, 20 rounds of brass, and 20 rounds. Lovley wood and more than enough power. I don't want to discourage a new project, but this was cheaper.

Tekaan......My .416 Remington in a model 70 Winchester Safari rifle, in the Classic pre-64 version with big claw extractor, control round fed magazine and 3 postition safety. It doesn't get any better OK.

On recoil it is about the same as the .375H&H really! Once you sight your game, you will not really feel that recoil all that bad once you pull that trigger. I use Speer TBBC bullets and Swift A Frames bullets in this rifle and it shoots great! I get around 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards from the bench.

If recoil is something you are concerned about prior to your hunt, like practice sessions etc. You can purchase a PAST RECOIL PAD (magnum pad) for under $40 dollars US Money and it will make that .416 seem like a 300 win mag firing 180 grain bullets.

I gave my .375 H&H to my son, soon after my first big game hunt using the .416 magnum model 70. It really is a hammer of THOR on elk size and bigger animals. Shoulder shots put them down very fast! Like turning down a light switch OK. Animals like kudu, bluewildebeest, eland...using 350 grain bullets, do not go anywhere when struck in the shoulder by this caliber rifle and premium bullet. I also shot Impala with this .416 through the shoulders and they don't run away into the bush, like being hit with a 30-06 or 300 mag.

I do NOT advise any muzzle brakes!!! Nor getting the rifle barrel PORTED......waste of money and your ears and others ears are going to be at stake, when firing that weapon.

For what it is worth I just had a 416 Taylor built. I picked it up a few weeks ago and so far I am impressed. Pretty mild recoil, uses less powder, and fits the VZ-24 Mauser action just fine. I figure if I can't get it done with a 400gr bullet at 2300fps, 2400fps will not help.

I can't wait till I move make to AK.

Reconsider the Rigby. I have both the No. 1 and the 77 in .416 Rigby and they are both fantastic rifles. Even the CZZ .416 is a nice piece of equipement. 400 gr. Barnes Solids at 2400 fps are pretty gentle to shoot, not bad at all. Stoke it up with 325 gr. X bullets at almost 3000 fps and it will take your breath away on both ends.

Thank You all, I have a CZ rifle in 375 and it is great. The 550 and the 416 Rigby are on the list for the very reasons mentioned, I ll look for one soon. Maybe I'll platy with the Talor as well. Can't have to many shooters. Best Regards, Tekaan

I have a Ruger #1 in 375 H&H and a Ruger 77 in 416 Rigby and I spent 4 years trying to decide between Rigby, Rem, or Taylor.

I Finally decided on Rigby because when all is said and done, it works. Recoil is stout but not harsh. It is a magnum length action and the Remington isn't, but that was less of a consideration when I found that I would need a custom stock on the Rem and the Ruger fit me.

So, which one fits you? Which do you shoot well? Reloading is cheaper for the 416 Rem as brass is cheaper to begin with.(40% of the cost of a box of Rigby ammo, Norma brass runs $192 per 100 new).

I know I wouldn't have chosen different now.
5 rounds, 410 grain woodleigh, 100 yards off the bench, .87" group with a Leupold 4x scope. I don't know when I have giggled more at the range. Must have looked like a lunatic. (:D)

BTW, the 375H&H and the 416 Rigby are PERFECT for Alaska!
The varmint rifles from HECK! LOL

No one mentioned the 416 Dakota. Is there problems I don't know about? I have a SS Winchester M70 getting built in 416 Dakota to match my 375x8mm Rem.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the Dakota line of cartridges, except cost of brass. Not a lot of difference in performance from cartridges that use less expensive brass, though Dakota did introduce their's a little ahead of the newer beltless Ultra Mags.

Who else makes a beltless 416 other than Rigby and Dakota?

Lazzeroni makes one and there are several wildcats based on the 404 Jeffery and RUM cases. I'm sure there are reamers for a 416 WSM also.

I don't see any improvements over the old 416 Rigby. Ruger, CZ, and a few others are making factory rifles for the Rigby version, and brass for the Rigby is more plentiful than any of the variants. It's still the standard by which all 416's and most dangerous game cartridges are judged.

When I decided on the Dakota I wasn't interested in a Rigby so it was out and the only other 416's were the taylor and Rem. I had (still do) a 416 Rem but wanted to dump the belt and I thought about building a 425 Express but it was belted too. I would think that Lazeroni brass would be as much as the Dakota brass. Brass price isn't too much of a problem either way in this rifle, I don't think I'll have as much need for it as I did when deer hunting in SE Alaska (I used a 375H&H or a 338Win for deer when hunting the mainland). If I pick up 50 or 100 cases they should outlast me.

In another post, you said you weren't afraid of wildcatting. Have you considered a full length 404 Jeffery necked to 416? Or maybe just go with the 404 Jeffery (.423")?

If you already have a 416 Rem, I don't think you can really improve on that other than go with a full length Rigby case or do something on the 404 Jeffery and load to like pressures. Maybe take a 375 RUM case and expand it to accept .416" bullets? I don't think we'll see Remington introduce that one because of the 416 Remington. Could take the 500 Jeffery or 505 Gibbs and neck it down, I guess.

I'm pretty much locked in to the Dakota round. I have the 416 Dakota reamer and the barrel work should be done soon. The stocks that came with the rifles were lacking so I will have to address that as well as the tigger guard/mag/floor plate. When I get done I will have a matched pair of Win M70 SS rifles in 375x8mm Rem and 416 Dakota and nothing to hunt with them. They are a bit to heavy for elk and eastern Oregon deer and ground squirrels & coyotes don't take as big of bite as as brown bear. They don't come running when they hear the dinner bell either.

I bought the Winchester model 70 Sarfari rifle in the .416 Remington because the originator of the caliber an African PH named Hoffman had been using it for years with great success. So did a couple of other PH's back then.

It's ammo was at the time cost me $45 dollars compared to the Rigby's $110 dollars a box.......give me a break please~!

My .416 loaded up with 400 grainers shoots through my Chrony at 2410fps. Now that .416 Rigby will do close to 2500fps but I dare say no hunter is going to go that route and hang on to his rifle. The Rigby case is larger for the purpose of lowering the pressure levels. To hunt in Africa's heat can imposed a sticky case or two, I have never had this problem and neither has there ever been any reports of any .416 Remington sticking a case in the heat of Africa.

My model 70 fits me far better than the Ruger I shoulderd when trying the rifles for size. I didn't like the small lever on the 3 point safety of the Ruger. Also the stock on the Winchester model 70 generates less felt recoil than the Ruger stock. Now that is for those that don't really know the facts on those wood stocks. The CZ humpback stock is even worse to control. The buying of new brass is 1/3 the cost of Rigby or Dakota brass. I rest my case Gents!

Here is a picture of a friends new CZ in .416 Rigby.
He is thinking of cast bullets for fun. Anyone have a pet mold style they like? Ant experiance with the RCBS? How about the NEI #229 375 grain gc?

The nice thing about the Rigby I am finding is that it is very forgiving of heavy loads. You can push a 400 grain bullet very near 2400 and not get the snot beat out of you. Running 92 grains of IMR4350 behind 400 grain Nosler Partitions I was getting 2390 to 2412 fps total spread for 10 rounds with the majority being 2392 to 2407 from the Ruger 77. At 100 yards they printed a 1.30 inch group of 5. Pressure sign is still normal but the air temp was 35 degrees that day. 90 grains of IMR4350 nearly duplicated Fed Premium factory loads at 2336 to 2358 fps for factory, 2334 to 2373 for handloads and shot even tighter with the same 400 gr. NP. ***NOTE*** These are MY loads in MY rifle, I can not and will not claim that they may or may not work in any other rifle.

The fact that the Rigby is loaded to the lower pressure and still has the horsepower it does compared to the newer 416s is something to consider. There is still some flexibility there because you aren't loaded to max pressure from the word go. Granted, you don't need it with a 400 grain partition or solid plunked in the right spot.

Besides, for Dangerous Game I do not want a push feed. Check out African-Hunter.com for the PH testing results rifle comparisons. I knew there was a good reason for the Mauser type action.

Gentlemen,
I would like to thank you all for your input on the 416 rifles available. I purchased a CZ 550 American 416 Rigby as a result of your combined efforts and the input of a long time Rigby shooter that I am aquainted with in Africa. My 375 CZ is a good gun and so far this one is. I've got to play with it a bit more and get the low power scope mounted. Iron sights are dead on and it is a lot of fun to shoot as is.
In six weeks I'll be in Africa giving it a try on an elephant if I am fortunate enough to find a good one. Until then its off to the range I go. I'll post a report on accuracy once the little bugger is sighted in and the barrel is seasoned a bit.
Better start buying powder in 5 lb buckets, a lot of practice is needed to get real confortable with the feel before hunting. Any body ever shoot long, heavy cast bullets out of one of these?

Once again, Thanks to all
Tekaan

I've been toying with the 416 idea for awhile. Thinking remington or taylor mainly because of brass costs. Im thinking there wouldn't be a problem with taking 375 H&H brass and doing the trim, FL, then fire form to get remington brass. Taylor is a bit easier. Fire form a 338win or FL a 458win. The only cheap way I can think of to get rigby brass is to machine off the rim on a large weatherby case and thats not very cheap. Im also thinking that the couple hundred fps doesn't make much of a difference with a 400 grain chunk of lead. I also don't see africa in my future so the biggest thing Im looking at is big nasty bears in alder........... on second thought maybe the bigger case is a better idea.

edit: actually I just looked at the specs for 375H&H and 416rem, it looks like it would be a strait fire forming proposition. About $40 bucks for 100 @ midway. Could be done FLing 45 basic too I guess.

http://s88369986.onlinehome.us/freedomsight/more.php?id=1635_0_1_0_M
http://www.thegunsource.com/shopping_viewproduct.aspx?idproduct=56184
Here is another 416, not sure it is readily available yet.
Barrett 99-416 Single Shot 416