Fellow Marlin fans,

I have on order some Beartooth 265 grainers. In the meantime, I took my (used) newly purchased 44 lever to the range to smoke some 180gr JHP's.

The Marlin in question now wears a scout mounted (XS sight systems) Leopold 2.5x with Burris quick detach rings. It has a 20 inch barrel.

Everything seems solid. I shot it with and without the scope (thanks to QD rings) and in both cases, I was turning out about 8 moa groups. My groups were about 4 inches at 50 yards, and I guess my bolt actions might have spoiled me some.

Is this typical of 180 grainers? Can I expect better groups out of the cast 265's?

The 180's are about .430 dia. I understand the larger .432 dia cast's are supposed to do better with the Marlins.

Any advice will be well received.

Smallest .44 jacketed I would use in a rifle would be 200gnrs. Had good luck with them in a winchester 94 using max loads of WW296

Smallest .44 jacketed I would use in a rifle would be 200gnrs. Had good luck with them in a winchester 94 using max loads of WW296

Haven't owned any rifle, bolt or oherwise, that would shoot every load with every bullet weight well....have their likes and dislikes, and it's evident yours doesn't much care for that loading combination. May have to evaluate the "why" of 180gr. bullets...aren't a lot of things that call for a 180gr. 44 bullet as an answer.
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Bullet construction is probably more imporatnat than just plain weight, but the 180's are designed for rapid expansion and energy release...may make acceptable personal defence rounds, but proably not the best choice for hunting; rifle velocity seems to just expand them faster, at the cose of penetration.

HAve loaded 180's to the max (and prabably a bit beyond that...but eventaully I leaned some restaint at the loading bench) in a .444 and took them out after some racoons that were driving a fried's crazy. Way excessive.

180 is pretty light in a .44 mag. What powder are you using?

Be sure to clean out all of the jacket fouling with some copper solvents before you use the Beartooth bullets.

My .44 was most accurate when using heavier bullets. The 200 grain cowboy loads were noticably worse, even at such low velocities. Perhaps it's the twist rate or the need for more surface for the rifling to get a good bite, but I think you are going in the right direction by going with the 265's.

If the bullet is holding together I do not understand the large groups. Since you got the same thing scoped and unscoped you have to assume it is the round. The only other thing is the front rest. These guns are very particular about forearm pressure and where you place it.

Thanks for all the reply's.

Some of the 180's were loaded in front of 2400. Most of them were pushed by Blue Dot. I had loaded these up for use in my Ruger SBH, which I've had for some time. Its accuracy is better than what I'm capable of (not all that good with a pistol, but I like shooting them).

I was loading them in my pistol because the recoil is so much lighter than with the heaver, yet more conventional 240's.

Since I've chosen to pursue the heavier cast bullets, I wanted to get rid of a bunch of those 180's to make reloading room. That, and I needed an excuse to go to the range anyhow.

I was just a little disappointed with the results. Sounds like I can still hope for better performance with the heavier loads, so thats encouraging.

I was using a rest from Midway for the front end, and was supporting it in the middle of the forearm, trying to mimic the field application.

Looking forward to loading (and unloading) those 265's once they arrive.

Is Blue Dot a decent powder to use? I've seen lots of 296 recommendations, but no word on Blue Dot. I happen to have a couple cans of Blue Dot remaining in my stock, so I'd prefer to stick with it, so long as the rifle and Ruger support the idea.....

thanks again guys. Yall have been alot of help. Glad I chose a friendly sport.

Keep your powder dry.

Well,

I received the .432 dia 265 gr WFN's from Beartooth last week. I loaded up about a hundred over 15.5 grains of Blue dot, and my 50 yard groups of 5 were around 2-3 inches. Still not what I'd call stellar, but much better than the 180 grain JHP's I'd tried out a few weeks prior.

All in all, I like these lead bullets. I sure hope I get the chance to do some game testing this season with them....

Good luck to all of you, and keep your powder dry.

shane

JSWBGA,

How has your 44 worked out? Did you get those 265s to shoot any better? If you have already posted about your results in another thread let me know becuse my memory got jogged in a search for scout mount stuff that I still have not done. How is your scout setup working out for the 1894?

JSWBGA,

How has your 44 worked out? Did you get those 265s to shoot any better? If you have already posted about your results in another thread let me know becuse my memory got jogged in a search for scout mount stuff that I still have not done. How is your scout setup working out for the 1894?

Chief,

The 44 has worked well. I love the way levers feel and carry, which was my reason to go back to them. Here I went out and spent all that time and money, then the afternoon of opening day, my cousin (who doesnt hunt) decides he'd like to try hunting after all. I, being mr nice guy, loan him my 44, and tell him to aim right on out to 75yards, and not to shoot past 75yards. I happenned to have an 1892 model 357 (which I've had for years now) with 158gr JHP', so I hunted with that. I end up shooting a cull buck with it that evening, and my fears of poor performance on the .357 turned out to be unfounded. He dropped like I hit him with an anvil (neck shot at 25 yards). Meanwhile, in a field only a few hundred yards away, my non-hunting cousin drops a coyote with the .44. From what he reported, a 265 grain Beartooth is ample horsepower on a Tx coyote as well. ;)

I love the scout setup, though in hindsight, I wouldnt buy the additional Williams peep and hi-viz front sight next time. Just extra money on something I dont anticipate using. The scope sets real well on that XS sight systems bar with the QD Leopold rings. I just dont see much need to detach them. If I had it all to do over again, I'd have also purchased a variable pistol scope, instead of the fixed 2.5x Leopold. They (pistol scopes on scout applications) dont work well on the higher mag range, but neither does my fixed power 2.5x.... ;) I'd like to have a higher magnification available to aid in inspecting critters before shooting. THe 2.5x is pretty minimal.

It sure carries well, and hits at the distances I need it to.

shane

Chief,

The 44 has worked well. I love the way levers feel and carry, which was my reason to go back to them. Here I went out and spent all that time and money, then the afternoon of opening day, my cousin (who doesnt hunt) decides he'd like to try hunting after all. I, being mr nice guy, loan him my 44, and tell him to aim right on out to 75yards, and not to shoot past 75yards. I happenned to have an 1892 model 357 (which I've had for years now) with 158gr JHP', so I hunted with that. I end up shooting a cull buck with it that evening, and my fears of poor performance on the .357 turned out to be unfounded. He dropped like I hit him with an anvil (neck shot at 25 yards). Meanwhile, in a field only a few hundred yards away, my non-hunting cousin drops a coyote with the .44. From what he reported, a 265 grain Beartooth is ample horsepower on a Tx coyote as well. ;)

I love the scout setup, though in hindsight, I wouldnt buy the additional Williams peep and hi-viz front sight next time. Just extra money on something I dont anticipate using. The scope sets real well on that XS sight systems bar with the QD Leopold rings. I just dont see much need to detach them. If I had it all to do over again, I'd have also purchased a variable pistol scope, instead of the fixed 2.5x Leopold. They (pistol scopes on scout applications) dont work well on the higher mag range, but neither does my fixed power 2.5x.... ;) I'd like to have a higher magnification available to aid in inspecting critters before shooting. THe 2.5x is pretty minimal.

It sure carries well, and hits at the distances I need it to.

shane

The .357 was used to take most of the large game in North America by handgunners for years, and not to malign the .44 mag., folks seem to think that it can't hold it's own out in the field anymore. Considering that bullet technology has come light years in the past decade, added to it's velocity boost from a rifle barrel, it's a round worthy of support by hunters who understand that they are hunting with a pistol cartridge. Just because Elmer Keith killed an already wounded deer at several hundred yards with a hopped up .44 special doesn't mean we should all try it!

What is the twist rate of your pistol as opposed to your rifle? Marlin has the same 1-38 twist for their .44 mag. rifles as always, yet the .45 is a 1 in 20; I think this should be changed or different twist rates offered as options. My .44 rifle would not shoot bullets lighter than 240 grains well enough for anything but close up cowboy action shooting, and there were only certain brands that would group well when pushed to higher velocities, so I think the 265 grainers will have the combination of weight and length (to engage the rifling) that will be needed to load up a tight grouping hunting load.

I find that the Leopold Vari-X II 1X4 scope to work best for me, although it's not a scope type set-up. Now Leopold makes the VX I to the same specs as the earlier VXII, which makes the current VXII & III even better. I've owned several different brands of scopes over the years, and although they haven't been the high end optics, Leopold has my business from now on.

I thought the XS/express sights were going to work for me, but after mounting them on two different rifles I found I just could not use them to hit the ground with! The standard Marlin sights aren't any better for me, but the old buck horn type is my favorite. The Marlin Cowboy 1884's come standard with them, but I've equiped my 1974 pre-cross bolt .44 mag with such and if it only had an octagonal barrel I'd be even more pleased with it.

Okay, I've rambled a little off topic, but I'd still like to know the results of finding and using the "perfect" .44 mag. load and the rifles used to launch them. Ya'll take care and happy hunting, and for those of us in Texas, try to stay dry and pry for those who have been hit hard by the bad weather.
SFT

I really dont know why they would be shooting that in-accurate unless your gun just simply "prefers" a different bullet weight....I've shot groups under 4" with my revolver using a leupold fixed 2power scope at 100yds with this exact weight from different manufacturers....

Like the guys have said, the 180gr bullet is likely to not shoot real well out of the 1894. The other issue I see is the Blue Dot. I love the stuff and have shot some great groups with it but it is probably not the ultimate accuracy power for a 44 mag out of an 1894. There are exceptions but with >240gr bullets you'll probably do better with 2400 or AA9 and with 240gr or greater bullets, go for H-110/296.

Being that it's a used gun, I would suggest starting off with and intense barrel cleaning. Make sure you get all the way past any lead or copper and all the way down to bare metal to the bottom of the grooves. Think JB bore cleaning paste. It may not make it shoot better but it elimanates another variable. For the 180gr jacketed bullet, I would suggest working up loads with 2400 or AA9 and keep checking for what load the gun likes. Follow the reloading tables for your powder to stay out of trouble. Chances are your most accurate load will not be a low pressure one.

For the 265gr BTB (great choice by the way), I'd suggest H-110/296 as the powder with the greatest chance of giving you an accurate load. Again, it will probably not be the low pressure load that gives you the accuracy. Stay away from the red hot loads as they are just trouble.

One of the guys on this forum, "New 2 Levers" went through this same process with the 265gr BTB last summer. He posted a thread like you just did and turned it into a very well written diary of his process to turn his 1894 44 mag into a tack driving hog hunters dream. The process was not about what he did to the rifle but rather an insightful look at reloading for results. If you search for his posts, you should turn it up. Others have done similar write ups too.

Just found it.... http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=43608

Also, I think Chief RID did a similiar work.

Good luck in the project. You have a great rifle, great bullet (265gr) and there are lots of smart guys willing to help on this forum.