View Full Version : Cartridge Energy Comparison
BackAcre
10-16-2004, 03:45 AM
I think this is interesting. Let me know if you want to add a particular load, it's just based on bullet weight and muzzle velocity.
>>> Editing <<<
Sorry, I have a table comparing a number of cartridges, but it doesn't format and is hard to read. I'll see if I can figure it out.
BackAcre
10-16-2004, 12:30 PM
Try this again:
Marshall Stanton
10-16-2004, 01:44 PM
BackAcre,
You might find our resources at the Ballistician's Corner (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/index.htm) interesting, as there are a number of ballistics related calculators for your information and enjoyment.
Among them:
Foot-Pounds Energy Calculator (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/energy.htm) Taylor Knock Out Power (KO) (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/taylor.htm) Thornily Relative Stopping Power (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/thornily.htm) Relative Penetration Calculator (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/penetration.htm) Permanent Wound Channel (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/wound.htm) External Ballistics Calculator (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/balistics/index.htm) Ballistic Coefficient (BC) Calculator (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/BC/index.html) Sectional Density Calculator (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/density.htm) Recoil Calculator (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/recoil.htm)These and more are available on this website. If you care to add more cartridges to your listing, then perhaps these resources will provide the information you need to make the listing more complete.
Enjoy! :)
God Bless,
BackAcre
10-17-2004, 03:03 AM
Marshall,
Thanks! Lots of good information!
alyeska338
10-18-2004, 05:50 PM
Here's a neat little chart also. No, it's not an believe all, end all, but is interesting...
Someday, at least one other person besides me will comprehend the flaws of energy figures related to the subject of lethality.
When the bullet passes out the other side of an animal, it takes it's enegy with it. Remaining energy is expended into the air or a mountainside.
TR
BackAcre
10-21-2004, 06:00 AM
T.R.
I certainly wasn't suggesting a relationship between energy and lethality. We can't use centerfire rifles on deer here, so I was just interested in where a 12 gauge slug falls in a comparison with "normal" deer cartridges. Then I decided to add a few others to see the whole range from .22 to .50, then I threw in my varmint loads.
I understand the need for the right tool for the job, and since my main addiction is varmint rifles I've seen the difference in lethality due to bullet design.
I prefer to eat deer, not track them, so I wait for broadside (or nearly so) shots under 100 yds. I've never recovered a slug, they always go clear through and make a real mess of whatever they go through.
eagleeye
10-21-2004, 08:58 PM
I recently read an amazing discussion of terminal ballistics. Hoever my hot link to the web-site seems to no longer be valid to share it. I will continue to hunt for this link and share it with you once I find it again.
I'll give yo my executive summary of what I learned:
But here is the basics I got out of it: Physics is physics. One of the laws is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. What this means in terms of "energy" is that the amount of felt recoil (ie energy) you feel in your shoulder is no more than what the animal on the other end of the bullet will "feel" when impacted with the bullet if the bullet was able to impart 100% of its energy to the animal. In fact the true energy delivered to the animal is most likely much LESS due to friction, air resistance etc not to mention that most bullets exit the animal before imparting 100% of the energy.
The true "killing power" if there is such a thing is determined by the area of wound channel created by the bullet. This is a funtion of bullet diameter after expansion and its penetration. What this article stated through research is that to quickly kill a deer you need a 1/2 inch diameter hole 9 to 12 inches in depth (penetration). Any less depth or smaller hole will likley kill the animal but it will take more time. Or it will take a smaller diameter hole to a much longer penetration depth to achieve the same quick onset of death. Also if you have a huge expansion and little penetration it also may take more time or not kill the animal at all.
This is why all this talk about bullet construction. A person really has to know the expected hunt conditions and pick a bullet/caliber and velocity combination that will result in the bullet performance desired AT THE EXPECTED POINT OF IMPACT. That is you want the bullet type, expansion, penetration to occur at the anticipated velocity of impact at the animal.
Paper statisics are virtually meaningless and I think it is nothing more than a marketing ploy. I suppose you could compare different cartidges when trying to narrow the field of choice when selecting a new gun but beyond that they are virtually meaningless in terms of actual determining the "ability to kill". This is why everyone knows you do not hunt Elk with a 22 caliber spit out of the muzzel at even hypersonic warp speed, even though theoretically it could on paper produce the same amount of ft-lbs of energy as a 30-06.
The single most important factor in a guns killing ability is bullet placement. And this has everything to do with judgement and skill. Skill to make the shot, and the judgement to know when and when not to take the shot in the first place.
I'm not saying I have either skill or judgement but just sharing what I've been learning.
Jack Monteith
10-21-2004, 09:13 PM
Is this the site you're thinking of? Takes a whole evening to get through it.
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html
Bye
Jack
eagleeye
10-21-2004, 09:17 PM
Is this the site you're thinking of? Takes a whole evening to get through it.
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html
Bye
Jack
Yes it is.
Thanks for the link.
I thought I saved it as a book mark. Clicked on it and it went to some mindspring site listing scary movie reviews. Go figure. Must be some anti-gun communist left wing conspiracy!
It took me two or three nights to read through it and I'll probably read it again in the near future. Some of it had to sink in over time so I'll be ready to absorb some more.
Jack Monteith
10-21-2004, 09:26 PM
Actually you were at the right place, but the link to Harold's terminal ballistics is at the bottom of the page.
http://www.mindspring.com/~ulfhere/ballistics/wounding.html
Bye
Jack
BackAcre
10-22-2004, 03:22 AM
I've read that, too. Interesting stuff - as you say it takes awhile to read and absorb.
I thought the cross sections of wound channels were interesting, it looks like a lot of hours were invested in researching and creating all this information.
The main interest of the authour is medium to large animals, as a varmint shooter I don't worry about wound channels, it all comes down to bullet performance. Some are nearly explosive, some appear to pass through with relatively little effect. The key is finding the right load to deliver the velocity to make the bullet work at a given distance. Same problem as larger game, but I'm looking for a wound channel that is 2 inches long.
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