i have a 1938 carbine that will not hit the haybale at 25yds. anybody have one of these and can give me some pointers on how to get it shoot better?

arky65

I have a Moisin-Nagant model 91/30. With some corrosive surplus ammo, and iron sights(which I really can't see with) mine did about 6" group for ten shots at 100 yards. From a bench, with sand bags. Next, and only other time I shot it, standing at 50 meters. I was getting 4 out of ten shots on a 4" popper. My only suggestion to you is to clean it real well.
If it has had corrosive ammo through it, which it probably has, use hot soap and water first, with a brass brush. Scrub like crazy, wear out the brush, until the water going through the rifle comes out clear. It looked like mud for a while. I needed a garden hose for this. Then clean with a good copper solvent/powder residue cleaner until point of very diminishing returns (some always seems to be coming out). Then stop, dry and oil. After a few days, do the copper solvent/powder residue cleaner all over again. Repeat every few days until no fouling comes out or you're REALLY sick of it. Go shoot. Preferably with non-corrosive ammo. I take my action out of the stock to do the water part, not for the rest of it. But if you use corrosive ammo, you must do the water thing. Even if you only fire one round. So if you use corrosive you might as well shoot 100 rounds to make it worth the cleaning. Now you know why I haven't shot mine again yet.

BTW, you can always get a bigger haybale!

Sounds like you have a shoot Mosin nagant. you said it was the M38 Carbine. Many of those have been abused by the red army and there later owners. I have a M44 carbine, new out of the box from poland. Shoot great at 100 yards. Also remember that all of those European rifles are in meters not yards.

First, check the rifle. How is the barrel, particularly the last couple of inches at the bore? Any cleraning rod wear? How is the barrel crown? Any nicks, dents, or burrs? Action screws snugged up? Counterbore at the muzzle?
If everything seems ok, what ammunition are you using? Some of the former eastern bloc surplus is pretty grim. Try some new commercial imports, like S&B, PP, or even expensive Norma. Try slugging your bore. Nominal diameter should be .310, but some run large. If larger, (.311 to .313, try a larger diameter bullet if you are a reloader.
Luis' suggestion to clean is a good one. Use a good copper solvent, and well fitting brushes.
Unless the bore is absolutely hopeless, your MN should shoot.

thanks guys i have proabaly ruined the barrel as i shot some yugo surplus in it some months ago. took for ever to clean using solvent. i did not use soapy water. oiled it and put it away. have not looked at in some monts now. i was going to get i out on my next set of days off and try some handloads i just got some boxer brass for it.

arky65

i have a 1938 carbine that will not hit the haybale at 25yds. anybody have one of these and can give me some pointers on how to get it shoot better?

arky65

One thing to keep in mind is that Mosin Nagants are known to shoot high. I am not sure about the '38, but I have a 91/30. On most guns, you line up your sights and that is your point of impact. On my MN, you line up your sights, and the bullet will hit just below the top of the ring around the front sight. I have heard that this is a European thing?? :( Anyway, the only thing you can do is keep it in mind when you shoot it, or modify the front sight.
Instructions on how to do it are on the surplus rifle website.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/

Hope this helps

update on my mn mdl 38: last week while on days off i got a chance to handload some brass i got from reeds.
i decided to fire the handloads from the 25 yd bench at my camp. the hand loads strung 5 shots veritcle 3" below bullseye. this is quite in improvement from the first session with the surplus ammo that shot from one corner of a round bale of hay to the other and every where in between. i did not get a chance to take it to the 100yd range down the road a ways, as the camp is still under renovations and winter is coming quickly.

i need some help on proper cleaning after shooting corrosive powder. as mentioned above i fired some surplus ammo that must have been corrosive. i do not know any other reason for so much rust coming form the bore. i clean all my riflebores with shooters choice bore cleaner. after firing the surplus ammo some months ago i cleaned the gun as i usually do and put it away. to my surprise when i ran patch through the bore before firing the handloads i pushed alot of rust out of the bore. i cleaned on the bore for hours before firing the handloads. i never got the bore as clean as i would have liked. after the handload session i cleaned on the bore over a 3 day span and never got the bore shiny and clean. i even used boiling water and lye soap. this bore keeps producing a brown crud. anybody got any suggestions?

arky65

Sorry, don't know how to set up a link you can just type on. you'll have to type them out. Go to "www.surplusrifle.com". They have a regular maintenance section in the upper left hand of the screen. Go there. Scroll down to an article about cleaning corrosive ammo. Also, "www.Empirearms.com" has an article on how to do it. I liked the latter one better.

I really meant it when I told you earlier to wear out the brush or your arm. I really did use a garden hose. It came out muddy for a very long time, but eventually did stop. I think after that, the above are OK. The ammonia will get rid of the salts that cause the rust, but won't really attack the rust too much. You have to get rid of the rust that is there first. I actually considered naval jelly (phosphoric acid) but since I didn't have any handy, just kept scrubbing.

The bore in my gun is slightly pitted in the grooves, but the lands are sharp and bright. And the whole thing is free of rust now.

Good luck.

luisy, i wore out my arm and several brushes on this bore. shooters choice is heavy on the ammonia. everytime i got the patches to come out somewhat clean i would run a brush followed by more patches. these patches would come out with more brown crud. once i get this thing clean i will never shoot anything but handloads in it. i went to the links you supplied they are very informitive. i think i am on the right track using shooters choice. i will try windex when i get back up to the camp next week. got any suggestions on improving the trigger. i polished all the contact points with polishing compound. polishing cleaned up the trigger feel but it is still heavy. thanks again.

arky65

Cleaning after corrosive ammunition is easy, but just a bit different from cleaning non-corrosive. Dennis Kroh, at the Empire Arms mentioned above, recommends using a 50/50 mix of water and sudsy ammonia to clean. Wet a patch, and wipe the bore with it. Follow witha dry patch, and then another qater/ammonia patch. The ammonia helps to neutralize the potasium salts deposited in the bore by firing, and the water helps to remove it. I use three wet patches and three dry patches, and then clean with solvent as I would for non-corrosive ammunition. Never had any issues with rusty bores, and the humidity where I live is often 90%.
Other cleaning method is to flush the bore with hot water. Pull the bolt, then slip a funnel into the chamber mouth. Boil some water on the stove, or better yet, throw a pyrex measuring cup of water into the microwave. Pour the boiling water down the bore and it will flush all traces of salt away. then clean and oil as usual.

to polish the bore back up you might try firelapping the bore. [See the BTB bullet selection area]. this mifht bring the "shine" back, but remember, if'n you've been flushin rust out, any finish on the bore is gone.

About the trigger...My 38 has what I call a nutcracker trigger....feels like there's a walnut behind it and you're trying to crack it. Honestly, it's got to be 20 pounds.
From that same site, here is a way to make the trigger better, if you wish to spend the $$$$

http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/hubertriggermosin/index.asp