Lets try this again. Most of the reloading data list around 900 fps for Cowboy data, usually in handguns. My question is what is the estimation of the velocity in a 24 inch barrel? The rifle in question is a Steel Frame Uberti 1860 Henry in 45 Colt. Should the loads be held to around 900 fps? I think this action is called a Toggle Action. Will this action stand up to a regular diet of 255 gr. bullets at about 1100 fps? Any info would ge greatly appreciated.

Steve E............

Some of the answers in the other thread seem to be blurring velocity with pressure, although certainly they are somewhat related.

So, to rephrase the question, does anybody know what velocity 'typical' SAAMI-spec .45 Colt loads will yield in a 24" barrel?

Don't know, personally, but if I get a chance to chronograph some, I'll let you know. Hope someone else has tried it and can report actual numbers.

200fps or so gain in velocity is most likely all you'd get, I'd hazard a guess, so your 1100fps velocity is probably close. My Marlin picks up close to 400fps, but that's at considerably higher pressure, and much slower powders than you'd use.

It would not really surprise me to see no gain at all, depending on the load. The velocity data for .45 ACP carbines is hardly above that for 5" handguns, in many cases.

If you pick load data for one of the slower powders, say Blue Dot, that would probably give you max speed at normal pressures. The Blue Dot load data in the Speer manual is as fast as I've found at normal .45 Colt pressures.

You can ask Uberti what pressure their gun is rated for, but if it won't take SAAMI-spec. .45 Colt loads, they're going to have some real problems.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Mike, thats heading in the right direction. If I load a 45 Colt round that according to the books is giving x amount of pressure and running at about 900 fps in a handgun will it be about the same amount of pressure in the 24 inch rifle if it is going about 1050 or 110 fps? I know each gun is different but was just wondering if it would be in the same ballpark on the pressure.
Seems like that there aren't any people that can comment on the Uberti Henry's, maybe because they are a bit more expensive than most of the other repro's or that nobody likes them. I don't think I'll be shooting fast enough to heat the barrel up too much to hold and the magazine tab doesn't bother me as the local Indian population seems to be pretty docile at the time so I don't think I'll have any problems of getting a finger pinch from shooting fast fighting off the Injuns.
Steve E..........

OK...will answer again.

Have measured 36gr. of FFFg under a 253gr. (soft cast) lead bullet in a 20" .45LC at 1103FPS.

Evident that BP pressure can earn 1100fps; the question becomes what smokeless powder can earn about the same speed at about the same pressure.

Without pressure equipment, that's a hard one to call...velocity can be equal, but it doesn't follow that pressure has to be equal.

Slow powders aren't the best choices for lower pressure. Not only is getting a clean burn harder (or impossible) but there seems to be some wide velocity variations.

The fast end powders can get the velocity...but believe the pressure is a bit higher than black powder produces to earn the same speeds.

Which leaves you with the medium burning powders. Still can have case volume issues (more volume than is ideal for the small charges used)...but I've had very good luck with AA#5 in loads that produce about the 1100-1150 fps that BP loads produce.

Don't think you can just add "X" amount to pistol data and be 100% correct...the really fast powders will gain less, the slower ones a bit more...but to ball-park it, call it 200-350fps going from a 71/2" barrel to 20" (with the smaller number coming from use of fast poweders, the larger one from the use of slow).

Thanks Mike, thats heading in the right direction. If I load a 45 Colt round that according to the books is giving x amount of pressure and running at about 900 fps in a handgun will it be about the same amount of pressure in the 24 inch rifle if it is going about 1050 or 110 fps? I know each gun is different but was just wondering if it would be in the same ballpark on the pressure.
Seems like that there aren't any people that can comment on the Uberti Henry's, maybe because they are a bit more expensive than most of the other repro's or that nobody likes them. I don't think I'll be shooting fast enough to heat the barrel up too much to hold and the magazine tab doesn't bother me as the local Indian population seems to be pretty docile at the time so I don't think I'll have any problems of getting a finger pinch from shooting fast fighting off the Injuns.
Steve E..........

Pressure doesn't go up because the barrel is longer, although there will always be slight differences between different guns firing the same ammo.

I'll call Uberti USA tomorrow and see if they can tell me what pressure the Henry is rated for, if they even will. I plan on using it out to about 100 yds or so on the smallish Whitetails back home when I find a good load for it. Thanks for the info.

Steve E........

Steve E,

The SAMMI maximum average pressure for the .45 Colt is 14,000 CUP. The '73 Winchester which uses the same toggle link action was rated at 15,000 PSI with 40 grs. of blackpowder. In both the .45 Colt and .44-40, CUP and PSI are rated the same, but that is not true for other cartridges.

Hodgdon shows a load with a 250 gr. lrnfp (lead round nose flat point) of 7.8 grs. of Universal at 941 f.p.s. at 13,000 CUP using WLP primers. One of the loads I use for general all around use is 8.5 grs. of Universal under a 250 gr. cast bullet in my Marlin .45 Colt Cowboy . This load clocks right around 1,200 f.p.s. in its 24" barrel. By interpolation, if 8.5 grs. = 1,200 f.p.s., then 7.8 grs.= 1,101 f.p.s.

You will have no trouble reaching 1,100 f.p.s. safely in your Uberti Henry with 7.8-8.0 grs. of Hodgdon's Universal for 1,000's of rounds. You will find that at 1,100 f.p.s. your 250 gr. lead bullet is good whitetail medicine and will likely give complete penetration.

If I were to build a load with smokeless to go 1,200 f.p.s. with a 250 gr. bullet in a toggle link action, I would choose Blue Dot. In the .44-40 it will give 100 f.p.s. more velocity than the faster burning pistol powders.

Good luck.

John

Thanks John, that is the exact answer I was looking for. I just happen to have 2 jugs of Universal Clays on hand as well as a new box of the 250 gr. lrnfp. I also have some Win 231 and Accurate 5744. I already have an assortment loaded up with Universal. Like I said that is the exact answer I was looking for. Thanks again.

Steve E............

8 gr Unique should dupe the BP load pretty close. I think it taks a similar amout of Universal, or AA5.
Humpty

John

I made it to the range this weekend and Chronied the loads with Universal Clays and the 250 gr LRNFP, 6.5 gr averaged 750 fps, up to 8.0 gr. which averaged 1025 fps.
I tried some Accurate 5744, 16.5 gr. averaged 975 fps but left a lot of unburned powder which I expected.
8 grs of Univ Clays seems to be what I will use. Maybe the 24 inch barrel is past the optimal burn length for this round and powder combo.
It wouldn't feed the semi wadcutters at all, I guess I'll stick with the rnfp, they will pack a wallop on a deer anyway.
Steve E.........