I have been watching the activities around gun sales of the WSM and WSSM cartridges. I understand the shorter action means less weight and I see the ballistics numbers saying some are slightly better, some slightly worse, than their "conventional" counterpart, but I don't care for them. The neck/shoulder relationship seems too severe for good brass life. We have two guns shops here in town and a Walmart - all of them say the same thing, sales are just not catching on like the gun manufacturers anticipated.

Anyone have any opinions - Fad or Future?

I have been watching the activities around gun sales of the WSM and WSSM cartridges. I understand the shorter action means less weight and I see the ballistics numbers saying some are slightly better, some slightly worse, than their "conventional" counterpart, but I don't care for them. The neck/shoulder relationship seems too severe for good brass life. We have two guns shops here in town and a Walmart - all of them say the same thing, sales are just not catching on like the gun manufacturers anticipated.

Anyone have any opinions - Fad or Future?

Have to admit, there isn't anything to the WSM or WSSM that makes me want to sell off an exisiting rifle to buy one of the new rounds. IF I didn't have the rifles at hand, would consider the new rounds, but with reservation.

Short stubby sharp shouldered rounds are probably a tiny bit more accurate...probably way doen on the list, well after bedding, barrel quaility, chamber quality, loading uniformity, etc. but still a small factor. They new cases are probably at their best with light to medium weight bullets; which fovors the range shooter making holes in paper over the game shooter making holes in hides.

Don't know anyone that's had one long enough to do any serious case-life studies, but will say that the more excessive the case shape, the more dependent on absoulte top-notch cases, so that may well be in the hands of companies making the cases.

Noppe..don't own one and have no plans on owning one.

I watched six out of seven guys buy a short magnum at Grice gun shop last Sunday. I don't know if that means anything or not.

I have the following: a Browning A-Bolt II Stainless Stalker in .270 WSM; a Winchester M70 Featherweight in .300 WSM; and a Winchester M70 Coyote in .243 WSSM. I can't comment on whether they're catching on or not, but I sure like the ones I have!

The Stainless Stalker will pretty consistently shoot three shot groups of Winchester 150 grain Ballistic Silvertips (@ approx. 3250 fps) at 2" or better a 200 yards. The Featherweight will pretty consistently shoot three shot groups of Winchester 180 grain Ballistic Silvertips (@ approx. 3000 fps) at slightly over 2" at 200 yards. I haven't taken any game with either of these yet, but I would expect them to be pretty effective way out there.

I use the Coyote for a long range varmint rifle. I have done some work to it, but with Wincehester 55 grain Ballistic Silvertips (@ 4000+ fps) it will consistently shoot three shot groups at +/- 3/4" at 200 yards. These 55 grain bullets also have a higher ballistic coefficient than a 55 grain bullet for my .22-250. It makes for a very flat shooting varmint rifle, and it has a devastating effect on anything you hit with it.

I am just getting set-up to hand load for these, so I've only used factory ammo so far. There's getting to be a better selection of factory ammo for the WSM's, but so far the choices are somewhat limited for the WSSM's. Once I have a chance to work up loads that the rifles really like, I think I'll have some much better results to report.

from what i can gather, the only reason the shorts exist is to cut a little weight and length from the action, and slightly better case efficiency. not really worth trading in your standard magnums, but worth lookin' at if you are gonna buy one. i am getting one for a mountain rifle, but i'm really only looking for hot .30- '06 performance from a short action, not the ballistic twin to the .300 weatherby.
this brings another point, the short actions are at home with shorter barrels, and this gives up a little of the velocity, but that's ok with me. i'm goin' for light and small, with enough poop to drop an elk with a good hit out to 150 yds or so. i guess i dont need a short mag for that, but i already talked myself into it, so i'll let you guys know how it turns out for me.

monty

you have to admit they are an interesting idea. But like you guys i havent found them interesting wnough yet to go out and buy one.

Nah... just give me my 444.

I like my .300WSM, better than .30-06 ballistics in a short action with moderate recoil and excellent accuracy -- and mine is a lever!

Let's get together in about 40-50 years from now and have this discussion , and that will answer your question . Most anything new will sell briskly for a few years , but very few make it more than a decade before fizzling into obscurity for all but a few diehard proponents. I can only think of one offhand that has made it more than twenty(I'm sure there are a few more though) and that would be the 7mm-08 and still half the people you talk to never heard of it.


444fitch

I'm up here in 742/7400 "Hangmaster Country" and every once in a while I see them(WSM) "New" for sale at the local gunshops. I think they only special order the WSM/WSSM/R-SAUMs only when someone wants one. I haven't seen any used ones.
I like the ones I have but I just have 300 WSM. I saw one of the newer Kimber 8400s in 300WSM, I would've put that one on layaway if I wasn't moving out to the Seattle area. It was the first one I saw that had the black forearm tip cap. Sexy rifle but do I really need another 300 WSM? I'm talking my cousin out of buying a 25 WSSM. I am a huge fan of the 25-06 Rem and I reload monthly for my 25-06s.
Time will tell. I think the SAUMs are dieing out quickly and the 7mm WSM is not far to follow.

SPAD

I'm talking my cousin out of buying a 25 WSSM. I am a huge fan of the 25-06 Rem and I reload monthly for my 25-06s.
SPAD[/QUOTE]



I recently ordered a Ruger #1V in 25-06. I will be hand loading for it as well. What do you like to shoot in this caliber? I plan to use Hodgdon extreme powders with this cartridge just like I do with the 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, and 45-70.

My take on the WSMs, WSSMs and SAUMs is that they are repackaged magnums duplicating what is already out there to stimulate sales. Is a 300 WSM or SAUM doing anything that hasn't been done by the 300 Win Mag or Weatherby?

I don't necessarily buy into the weight saving advantage because I've lugged an M60 machine gun weighing around 23 lbs on 12+ mile roadmarches along with rucksack and other gear. A pound of difference isn't going to make or break you if you're on a hunting trip and got into shape for it like you should. If you didn't, then that pound isn't going to make the difference.

I have nothing against the short mags just I don't think they're doing anything that's not already been accomplished. I agree with 444fitch and see where these are in 40-50 years. My guess is we won't have to wait that long, probably more along the lines of 20 years and then see where they stand.

Flashhole -

Always had great success in my several #1's in 25-06 with the Alliant RL-22 powder and the heavier 115 and 117 grain bullets.

As to the popularity of the WSM's, WSSM's, SUM's, RUM's, etc and so forth - the idea is good and the cartridges are proving themselves to be quite accurate and efficient.

The pity is, my cupboard is stuffed full of the older standard and a few wildcat chamberings with no justification to run out and buy up several more, other than lust and the glowing rag writer's reports. Just can't see trading off the old standards that have served so well these past seasons to acquire the latest flash-bang.

If, as ribbonstone says, there was a hole in the present assembly, then one of the WSM's would surely find it's way into the locker. Somewhere between the .25 and the 7mm.

This post got me to thinking about what I've seen come in and out of South Texas deer camps since I've been a kid. I know guns are still being chambered in some of these and I know guys that are still shooting these but overall I think they all are biting the dust. Heck, I would like to own rifles in most of these. I think the new Remington and Winchester offerings will disappear quicker than these.

260 Rem
264 Win Mag
6.5mm Rem Mag
7-30 Waters
7mm-08 Rem
284 Win
280 Rem/7mm Exp Rem
7mm STW
307 Win
8mm Rem Mag
356 Win
358 Win
350 Rem Mag

I'm talking my cousin out of buying a 25 WSSM. I am a huge fan of the 25-06 Rem and I reload monthly for my 25-06s.
SPAD



I recently ordered a Ruger #1V in 25-06. I will be hand loading for it as well. What do you like to shoot in this caliber? I plan to use Hodgdon extreme powders with this cartridge just like I do with the 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, and 45-70.[/QUOTE]


Just like stated above, I have used RL22 to excellent results with 100gr ballistic tips. I recently switched to Ramshot Magnum and am currently working up some 115gr ballistic tips. I'm on a reloading break right now. I'm moving to Seattle this week. I will probably begin trying the 110gr Accubonds when they come out with either RL22 or Magnum. I used H4831 when I began loading for my #1V but went to something that would push those bullets a little faster, I have traded that rifle(#1V) and only have a REM 700 in 25-06 now. Took a nice doe with those 100gr BTs earlier this year. No exit, walked ten feet, gave up the ghost. Perfect results in my book.

SPAD

I think they are catching on with the newer demographic of people getting into hunting late in life. I see a lot of people with money in the gun stores that are just getting into hunting buying up the WSMs and WSSMs, mainly because they are pushed as the latest and greatest, which apeals to most. I hear guys behing the counter making statements like, "it only has "x" amount of drop at 400yds, it wouldn't be a thing to kill a deer that far out" Can you imagine? Someone with little to no experience trying to make a 400yd shot? A good friend of mine just bought a new .270WSM. I put a box of shell's through it, just didn't float my boat. If anything these new caliblers have pushed me more towards the traditional ones. .270, .308, 30-06, 45/70 and so on. I think these new ones will stick around, but I don't think they pose any sort of a threat to the tried and true performers. To each his own, but its not for me.

I have worked part-time selling firearms for the past three months or so. In that time, I distinctly remember selling one .300WSM, one .270WSM, and seeing two more .300WSMs turned in to have scopes mounted/boresighted. I do not recall selling any "traditional" magnums in that time.
I always tell people that ask that the WSMs are essentially the ballistic duplicate of the longer magnums except with very heavy-for-caliber bullets. The main difference is that the WSM rifles are a few ounces lighter.
I think the .300WSM and .270WSM are here to stay. The 7mmWSm and all of Remington's SAUMs are going away. Also, I have seen almost no interest in the WSSMs. In fact, Gander Mountain has had the .25WSSMs at 10% off for a few months now. The people there say that discount still hasn't sold a single one.

Also, I have seen almost no interest in the WSSMs. In fact, Gander Mountain has had the .25WSSMs at 10% off for a few months now. The people there say that discount still hasn't sold a single one.


I personally thing Winchester goofed and should have based their new .25 on the WSM case, not the WSSM. Would have been similar to the .257 Weatherby.

I recently ordered a Ruger #1V in 25-06. I will be hand loading for it as well. What do you like to shoot in this caliber? I plan to use Hodgdon extreme powders with this cartridge just like I do with the 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, and 45-70.


Just like stated above, I have used RL22 to excellent results with 100gr ballistic tips. I recently switched to Ramshot Magnum and am currently working up some 115gr ballistic tips. I'm on a reloading break right now. I'm moving to Seattle this week. I will probably begin trying the 110gr Accubonds when they come out with either RL22 or Magnum. I used H4831 when I began loading for my #1V but went to something that would push those bullets a little faster, I have traded that rifle(#1V) and only have a REM 700 in 25-06 now. Took a nice doe with those 100gr BTs earlier this year. No exit, walked ten feet, gave up the ghost. Perfect results in my book.

SPAD[/QUOTE]


I had a 25-06 here in Texas and used it a lot got Whitetail hunting I normally loaded a Nosler 115 Grain partition with slow powder like 4831. I got some H870 on sale at a local store but it tended to be too dirty for my tastes. In any case, the 25-06 is OK but not great. Typically it penetrated very well but knockdown remained less desireable. I shot one deer at about 150 -200 yards and broke its back. I put a 2nd bullet in the buck and later recovered the bullet. It penetrated from the rear backstrap to the just under the chest. The penetration was about 36-37". The recovered bullet looked like one from a Nosler Ad.

In any case I sold the 25-06 and will acqure a big bore such as a 444 or similar. With a good load maybe I'll be happier.

The bottom line is that most of the 257's are similar, flat shooting, reasonably accurate, but are still only little better than a 243/6mm in knockdown. That in my viewe is an issue.

By my count of what people are practicing with on the range for deer hunting here in Texas, here goes =
.30-06
.308
.270
.243
.22-250
7mm Rem Mag
.300 Win Mag

and minor numbers of
7mm-08
.260
7x57
.280

Have seen one shorty, and that was the .223WSM

LLS