This year was by far the worst hunting season I could remember. I believe the state has to do something to change the hunting regulations. This is a copy of the letter I sent to the DEC. I would like all feedback both good & bad about the letter. I want to get an idea what most hunters are willing to change in the regulations so I can go to these supposed public meetings & speak out. I am going to be posting this on many other websites to get as many feedbacks as I can. Please give me some input. Here it is:


To Whom It May Concern:

My name is Ken Otten & I own 220 acres of land in Otsego County. I also have control over another 215 acres that border me. In total there are 5 people that hunt on 435 acres. I am an avid hunter & would like to see a healthy deer herd with opportunities for everyone to enjoy. I am a big fan of the way Pennsylvania has restructured their hunting opportunities. I believe NYS can be a leader in this way also, but now is the time to start. But before I begin, I would like to commend you on your re-thinking of the hunting opportunities for the state of New York. I like some of the new ideas & would like to input some of my own. I know the DEC is getting a lot of input from all over the state between hunters, biologists, task forces, farmers & from anyone else that has an opinion. This writing is of my story & my suggestions. Some of my ideas may be good & some bad, but you can take from it what you will. I’ve been trying to implement a management system on my land to grow bigger bucks & have a healthier herd. I've shot some nice bucks over the years, but since doing some spare time taxidermy work, I have seen what the potential could be for the deer in my area. Three years ago I stopped shooting young bucks in favor of Does. Last year I initiated food plots on my property along with those shooting practices & this is what the result was. Three years ago, we had about 35 to 40 deer on the land. This was a combination of bucks & Does that we saw in the fields during the summer & winter months. After the food plots were in, we had the same number of deer but only 2 bucks. They were a year and a half 5-pointer and a year and a half 6-pionter. They were there in the summer & stayed during the hunting season. Unfortunately, they were both shot by neighboring farms during the gun season. A two and a half 8-pointer came in and bred the does. We passed on shooting him to let him get bigger & he was there and alive until well after the season was over. Last year, we took 7 Does off the property. When the summer came, we still counted about the same number of deer (between 30 to 35) in the food plots. Of these there were 5 yearling bucks. One 6-pointer, three 4-pointers, & a spike. Throughout bow season we saw these bucks on a regular basis. Then what we believe was the 8-pointer we left last year returned & was breeding the Does. We saw him on a daily basis for about 2 weeks just prior to the gun season, then he left. As the gun season came in, the yearlings were still there but the 6-pointer had broken off both antlers and was barely legal as a buck & one of the 4-pointers had broken off one side. The broken horn 6-pointer stayed for the 1st week and then within a 24 hr timeframe left our property & was shot about 2 miles away. The other yearlings were also shot by neighboring farms. This past week we saw the spike breeding the Does. So far as of this writing, we shot 3 Does. One was a year and half Doe with 2 fawns. My problem with this scenario is that the state has procedures in place to control the Does but nothing to control the buck population. Each year, the new crop of bucks are being harvested & there is no carry over to let them get to an older age. It’s not a healthy herd when the year and a half spikes are doing the breeding. Unfortunately, I cannot control this. But the State can. I don’t have data to go on, but here’s what I think:

1. I think there should be antler restrictions of 3 or preferably 4 points to a side during the gun & muzzleloader seasons and possibly the archery season. This will let the little ones get a little older & force meat hunters to shoot Does to put meat in the freezer. This will increase the antler size & quantity of bucks while decreasing the herd for damage control. With an influx of larger bucks, the State can get more revenue out of the out of state license sales. Out of state residents would be more likely to come here if they thought they could get a trophy buck like in Illinois.
2. I’m not in favor of an Earn a buck program for NYS residents because I believe it would reduce the herd too much. I think it would work if you used the Earn a buck program for out of state residents. They would benefit by being able to take 2 deer with the one license while letting NYS residents get first chance at the bucks. This would bring in more out of state hunters while reducing the herd. The way the state has it now with the DMP permits can better control the Doe population.
3. Lower the big game hunting age to 13. At this age they are more inclined to take up the sport without being sidetracked by other social behaviors. I don’t believe there should be a special season for them, but they should be allowed to shoot any 1 deer of their choice without any restrictions. This should be done every year, as long as they have a junior license. This will get them hooked at an earlier age & keep them interested as long as they shoot something.
4. I don’t believe there should be an early muzzleloader season, even if it’s antler less only. I believe the early season shooting will spook the deer prior to the regular gun season. Also, from what I’ve been hearing around, a lot of people are talking that if there is an early muzzleloader season & they see a nice buck, they will shoot it & never report it. I think having people going into the woods with a firearm in the early season, is asking for trouble. What I would suggest is to reduce the regular gun season to 2 weeks with 3 weekends. Then implement a muzzleloader only season on the following week with all the regular season regulations & benefits carried over. You don’t have to have the regular season that long. Most of the deer are shot within the first week anyway. This would give the muzzleloaders their own week plus they could still use their unused DMP permits from the regular season. Also on this week the secondary rut would be on and their chances would be good to tag out on a good buck. By decreasing the cost of a muzzleloader license to $10, I believe you would get more state income by the increased number of sales. Hunters wouldn’t mind spending the extra money to extend their season.
5. I like the idea of opening the gun season on a Saturday & the bow season 2 weeks earlier. The only thing is that the period of the bow season between Oct. 1 & the 15th should be for antler less deer only. In this way the herd can be reduced & the bucks wouldn’t have bred them already. This period, as well as the rest of the early bow season, could be used to qualify for the Earn a buck program. This would give out of state residents a chance to fulfill their requirements early on. It would also increase the number of bow hunting sales.

This is how the season would work out in 2005:

Oct 1 – Oct 14 Early Archery (Antler less Deer only)
All Archery license holders can take 1 Deer (Antler less only)
Non-Resident hunters can use for the Earn a buck program

Oct 15 – Nov 18 Early Archery (Either Sex) – with or without Antler restrictions?
All Archery license holders can take 1 Deer (Either Sex) – with or without restrictions?
Non Resident hunters can use for the Earn a buck program on Antler less Deer
Youth & Disabled Archery license holders can take 1 Deer (Either Sex) without restrictions

Nov 19 – Dec 4 Regular Season (Antler Restrictions)
All resident Big Game license holders can take 1 buck with 3 or 4 points to a side
All resident Big Game license holders can take 1 Antler less deer with a DMP license
Non-Resident Big Game license holders can take 1 Antler less & 1 Buck with 3 or 4 points to a side (after the Earn a buck rules are fulfilled) – If the Antler less rule is fulfilled during Early Archery season, then only 1 Buck can be taken & no Doe
Youth & Disabled Big Game license holders can take 1 Deer (Either Sex) without restrictions

Dec 5 – Dec 11 Muzzleloader Season (Antler Restrictions)
All resident Muzzleloader license holders can take 1 buck with 3 or 4 points to a side
All resident Muzzleloader license holders can take 1 Antler less deer with a DMP license if it is not used during the Regular Season
All Non-Resident Muzzleloader license holders can take 1 buck with 3 or 4 points to a side
Youth & Disabled Muzzleloader license holders can take 1 Deer (Either Sex) without restrictions

Dec 12 – Dec 18 Muzzleloader Season (continued) and Late Archery Season
All leftover tags are valid (Same rules apply from earlier seasons)

I hope some of this can be used to have a healthier Deer herd & to give the hunter’s of this state the opportunities and satisfaction they deserve. From what I have always been told is that the Deer belong to the State of New York & it falls upon you only to make these decisions. The buck herd needs to increase and there needs to be an age structure within it. Future generations along with my 2 sons are counting on you. Please do the right thing.

You need Gary Alt. Please take him. Please.

I like many of your ideas.
lowering the age super!
antler restrictions is a great one but is going to be hard to convince people/hunters.

I am not so sure about not allowing muzzel loaders their early season. I don't see the "spooking" defence of having any real poof and I think that is more of hunters making excusses for not getting their deer.
I personaly dont use a muzzel loader.

I read resently in some magazine that came to my door , I think sent to many hunters in NY un-solisited. Some new mag that they are trying to get people to suscribe to talhing about how NY had droped the ball be not making laws for wearing blaze orange.

That is one law that I don't beleave is neccassary. I think it should be up to the hunter to wear it or not. I understand that It may save people's live in certon situations but I don't need to have the state tell me when it is nessacery, that should be left up to the hunter.

The bow season starting earlyer I like. I think you are right that is is a good thing to take the does before the rut. The rut is a stressful time a causes alot of stress on the herd. If we can take the does before then it would reduce unnessasary stress on the bucks and the herd in general.

I however do not like the fact that the hunting season wants to be opened on a saterday. I think the opening weekend already has to much hunting preasure and now it is going to be even more so now that the two largest hunting days, opening day, and opening weekend and now one. I think that is a very dumb idea. It seems to me it is gaining alot of popularity from the hunters because the majority of the suporters can't take off of work and they think that they arn't getting a fair shot at the season. But that isn't what is nessarrily good for the deer herd and the long term. That is what we should be making laws for. Not making laws because the majority of people want a perceived advantage. Which I really think is not really a big one or even really exsistant.

thats my take!

"I think you are right that is is a good thing to take the does before the rut. The rut is a stressful time a causes alot of stress on the herd. If we can take the does before then it would reduce unnessasary stress on the bucks and the herd in general."
If you take some of the does from a given area before the rut, the bucks will move farther and more, to find available does- result: more stress on the bucks. In some areas where the winter kill is an issue, that means less bucks make it thru the winter.
I like the younger age limit.
I have no problem with the early ML season. I just don't see enough hunters out then to cause a problem. If early ML seasons spook the herd, then early archery must do that also.....
I think the real problem with the NY deer herd, in general, is that we have had 3 straight record setting years of high deer harvest, followed by a bad winter, where many deer died. So, we hunters got used to deer everywhere, and suddenly it's a tough year to kill a deer.
I think it's just part of the normal cycle.
Frankly, if you want to adress a problem, how about hunter access? How much land in your area is posted and allows no hunting? I know of hunters in NY state who have become discouraged by the loss of areas to hunt, and have given up deer hunting. I really think that's a bigger problem than regs.
Good discussion ! Let's hear some more ideas.

Although I now live in VA. I am from Delaware County and also hunt in Otsego County. Over the past 30 years the deer hunting in that area has been in a steady decline. I think in no small part do to the fact of the small farms going under. At the turn of the century Delaware CO. was 30% wooded now it is over 95% wooded. Less edge areas equal less deer. I would also like to see a quality deer management plan implemented by DEC. Lowering the hunting age to 12 or 13 would also be great (here in VA the kids have to have a license at 12 before that they can hunt with there parents w/o ). Two years ago this state moved opening day to a Saturday it does give more people an opportunity to hunt the opening day which translates to a high take. I have no problem with ML opening early but in your county if they do that they should allow rifles during the general season. Or at least make in primitive ML's (round ball & iron sights).

Good Hunting

Thanks to all who offered their opinions on this matter. For those of you who read this thread & didn’t offer any opinion, you should be ashamed. Those who don’t say anything before things change are the first ones to complain when they do. After getting feedback from this & many other sites, this is what has come up. There has been a positive feed back on antler restrictions & for lowering the youth age to hunt. Not many have liked the idea of an early muzzleloader season or for shortening the regular gun season. What I would suggest then is to incorporate both seasons into one where you can use your muzzleloader tag during the regular season. NYS does not have that in effect now. Some other interesting opinions & feed back have come up. The first one has to do with poaching. It seems that the state is rampart with it. A lot of hunters from all over the state are complaining about it, but none are doing any thing about it. They said that the DEC should do something about this. There is an easy solution for this: REPORT IT! If that doesn’t work, then call the state police & report that there is a trespasser with a firearm on your property. I find that this works better than calling the DEC & if the people get caught and word gets around, I don’t think you will have any more problems. At some point, people have to start taking action to protect what they want. The second thing is that some people say that if they buy a license it is their right to shoot whatever they want. The thing that they have to remember is that hunting, like driving, is a privilege and not a right. The idea of hunting is a management tool to control the deer population. The state owns the herd & it is up to the hunters to keep it a healthy one. Third, most are saying that the herd is too small & that too many does have been shot. I spoke to a biologist & he said that to maintain a healthy deer population there should be about 11 deer per square mile. On agricultural areas, he said about 16 deer per square mile would be sufficient. NYS has a land area of 47,379 square miles. Of this there are many city & urban areas where deer would not exist. If you do the math for 11 deer / sq. mile, the herd count for the state would be 521,169. For 16 / sq. mile it would be 758,064. Even if the state is correct with a deer population over 900,000, it is overpopulated. I think a lot of people are missing the point. The idea is to have a healthy herd for now & for future generations and not for everyone to shoot anything just to say that they got something. Let’s get rid of that “If it’s brown, it’s down” attitude. If it’s meat your after, do everyone a favor & shoot a doe. Thanks.

The meetings are starting for anyone who is interested. I believe all hunters should go to these meetings to let their voice be heard.



DEC public meeting to discuss changes to 2005 deer seasons

The nearest Department of Environmental Conservation Region 7 public meeting on the subject of the proposed new Southern Zone deer hunting regulations will be held 7-9 p.m. Feb. 8 at Chenango Valley High School.

The only other Region 7 meeting scheduled so far will be 7-9 p.m. Feb. 10 at the state fairgrounds in Baldwinsville.

The state will accept public comment on the proposals through March.

The NYS DEC is going to start the public hearings on the deer hunting proposals statewide on Feb. 8. The DEC region 4 meetings are as follows:

Feb. 8 - Kinderhook North Pt cultural arts building
Feb. 12 - Oneonta Holiday Inn
Feb. 16 - Clarion Hotel in Albany

For all other regions, please contact your regional office on the DEC website. They will give you a list of times & places. Try to get to these meetings so our voices in this matter can be heard. The website is: http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/about/abtrull3.html

New York State Department of Environmental Conservation
State of the 2005 Deer Herd
Meeting Schedule


$ February 7th (Monday) 7 p.m. - Big Tree Elementary School Auditorium, 4460 Bayview Road, Hamburg. Directions : Adjacent to Frontier High School.

$ February 8th (Tuesday) 7 p.m. - North Pointe Cultural Arts Center, 62 Chatham St. (Rt. 9), Kinderhook. 518-758-9234. Directions : From I-90 take exit 12. Seven miles south on Rt. 9 to Kinderhook. North Point is located on the left directly across from Stewart’s.

$ February 8th (Tuesday) 7-9 p.m. - Chenango Valley High School, 1160 Chenango St., Binghamton. Directions: Just south of exit 2 off Rt. 88.

$ February 8th (Tuesday) 7-9 p.m. - Haverling High School, 25 Ellis Ave., Bath. Directions : Exit Rt 17/I-86 at exit 38 (Rt. 54). Turn left onto W. Washington (NY 54). Turn left onto Ellis St. into school entrance.

$ February 9th (Wednesday) 7-9 p.m. - Canandaigua Elementary School, 96 West Gibson St., Canandaigua. Directions: From the Thruway, take either Exit 44 and go south on Rte. 332, or Exit 43 and go south on Rte. 21. The school is 1000 feet west of the intersection of Main (Rte 332) and Rte. 21.

$ February 10th (Thursday) 7-9 p.m. - NYS Fairgrounds Art and Home Center, 581 State Fair Blvd., Syracuse. Directions: Just off exit 7 of Rt. 690. Go to gate 2.

$ February 10th (Thursday) 7-9 p.m. - Churchville Chili Senior High School, 5786 Buffalo Rd., Churchville. Directions: Take Interstate 490 west to Rt. 259, exit 4. Turn right onto NY 259/Union St. Turn left onto NY 33/Buffalo Rd.

$ February 10th (Thursday) 7 p.m. - H.R. Clothier Building, Gerace Auditorium, Chautauqua County Office Building, 7 North Erie St., Mayville.

$ February 12th (Saturday) 1 p.m. - Holiday Inn, State Rt. 23, Oneonta. 607-433-2250 Directions: From I-88 take exit 15. Travel east on Rt. 23. At a “T” turn left (continuing east on Rt. 23) for about 1 mile. The Holiday Inn is on the right.

$ February 15th (Tuesday) 7 p.m. - Quimby Theater, Ulster Community College in Stone Ridge.

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$ February 16th (Wednesday) 7 p.m. - Clarion Hotel of Albany, 3 Watervliet Ave. Ext., Albany. 518-438-8431. Directions: From I-90 take exit 5. If traveling east on I-90, turn right at the end of the exit ramp. If traveling west turn left at the end of the exit ramp. Take the first left off Everett Road onto Watervliet Ave. Ext. The Hotel is on the left.

$ February 16th (Wednesday) 7-9 p.m. - Saranac Lake Middle School, 141 Petrova Ave., Saranac Lake. Directions: At the traffic light on State Rt. 3, take Main St. south across the bridge, go right on Lake Ave., then right on Petrova Ave. The school is on the right.

$ February 16th (Wednesday) 8-10 p.m. - Nassau County Rifle and Pistol Range, Mitchel Athletic Complex, Charles Lindbergh Blvd., Uniondale. Directions: Meadowbrook State Parkway to exit M5 West, Hempstead Bethpage Turnpike (SR24) to Earle Ovington Blvd., Left on Charles Lindbergh Blvd., facility on left.

$ February 16th (Wednesday) 7-9 p.m. - New Hartford High School, 33 Oxford Rd., New Hartford. Directions: About 2 blocks off Genesee St. in the village of New Hartford.

$ February 17th (Thursday) 7-9 p.m. - West Canada Valley Central School, High School Auditorium, 5447 State Route 28, between Newport and Middleville.

$ February 23rd (Wednesday) 7-9 p.m. - Dulles State Office Building Auditorium, 317 Washington St., Watertown. Directions: Downtown, across from Best Western Hotel.

$ February 24th (Thursday) 7 p.m. - Dutchess Hall Theater, Dutchess Community College in Poughkeepsie.

$ February 24th (Thursday) 7-9 p.m. - Saratoga County Cooperative Ext., 50 West High St. (State Rt. 67), Ballston Spa. Directions: From Exit 12 of I-87, follow Rt. 67 West into the Village of Ballston Spa. Rt. 67 turns left onto High St. at a traffic light. The Cooperative Extension Building is one block on the right side. Additional parking is across the street.

$ February 24th (Thursday) 7-9 p.m. - H.C. Williams High School, Canton Central Schools, 99 State St., Canton. Directions: ½ mile off State Route 11, Village of Canton.

$ Another meeting in Region 1 will be held in Suffolk County at a date and time to be announced. Call the Regional Wildlife Office at 631-444-0311 for meeting location and time.