I have been putting off getting into muzzleloading rifles for awhile now, but I just keep coming back and thinking that I really need to add a good ML to my collection.

I want the traditional percussion rifles, not the new inlines--for looks more than performance.

Has anybody shot the Great Plains Hunter-1:32" twist version? I want to shoot my own cast bullets, so that's why I went for the twist rate.

My first blackpowder rifle was a Great Plains. I bought the kit and built it myself. It was a beautiful rifle and I browned all the metal. It was a round ball rifle with the slow twist. It shot well. It is not in my gunsafe anymore.


It was just plain to heavy to pack in the woods. I loved the look and feel of this gun, I liked the way it shot. The fondle factor was high but it just was a pig to pack.

I ended up with my second black powder gun a CVA I picked up for $50 at a yard sale. It was as accurate as the Lyman and just plain. I shot several deer and elk with that rifle because it was so light and pleasent to carry.

All I can tell you is go fondle, handle, look thru the sights and just get the feel for a gun before you buy it. Carry it around the store for 45 minutes or an hour and get some feel for what it's gonna feel like after carrying for a long day in the woods.

I'm not going to tell you to not buy or buy a specific gun because I've bought guns simply because I liked the looks, calibre, etc. What I can do is pass on my experience with the Lyman great plains rifle. One thing for sure they are fairly historically accurate and they are a beautiful rifle.

Good luck on any choice you make.

I have been putting off getting into muzzleloading rifles for awhile now, but I just keep coming back and thinking that I really need to add a good ML to my collection.

I want the traditional percussion rifles, not the new inlines--for looks more than performance.

Has anybody shot the Great Plains Hunter-1:32" twist version? I want to shoot my own cast bullets, so that's why I went for the twist rate.

Of the production rifles out thee today, think the Lyman is a good buy...reasonably authentic and has a well deserved reputation for working well. One of the few still offering a left handed version.

I am a south paw, so that is another reason I am looking at these rifles. I like the double trigger set up and the longer barrel.

I was really looking for something that not only looks authentic, but shoots good as well.

I do understand about heavy rifles, I own several, but rarely hunt stalking style with them. I usually hunt from either a hilltop from cover or a treestand.

If I wanted magnum stuff I have an Encore frame to build one of those super shooter's, but I really want the traditional look if I am going to hunt with a blackpowder rifle. I guess I am more of a purist when it comes to blackpowder.

Has anybody used the faster twist rate rifles? It doesn't need to be just the Lyman, I am looking for an idea as to the accuracy potential of using the old style conicals in a 1:32" or similar twist.

As a left hander myself, our options on production muzzleloaders are limited. That being said, I have manged to aquire six rifles in both flint and percussion. Three of the rifles are lymans.
I shoot the Hornady PA conical in my 1:60 GPR as well as buffalo ballets. Both bullets are very accurate out of these rifles.
You might also look at RMC Sports, for a production rifle they are top notch. L&R locks etc. You can get them LH, various barrel length and twist. Their web address is rmcsports.com

If you buy the Lyman, throw that nipple in the garbage & buy a Splitfire, Hot-Shot or Redhot. You can thank me for that suggestion after a couple of range visits using the original Lyman nipple.

Also...If you can find the RWS Dynamit Nobel #1075 caps (a red can).... buy them too.

Oh yeah... one last thing.... better overall ignition using FFF or P powders vs the coarser FF.

OK... I'm done now. Have a BALL... oops I probably mean SABOT/BULLET with your new fast-twist Lyman Hunter. Fine rifles... just too many poster complaints on mis-hangfires with new ones recently.

Dang... I forgot to mention to shoot a 20-pk of full-fledged conicals in it b/4 changing to sabots. Been some "groove burrs" reports on some new Lyman Great Plains slow twisters. Because so few shooter buy the fast twist version you are contemplating, it wouldn't be a bad idea to smooth-out the bore & get familiar with your new treasure.... well...right after you change that nipple...lol

I mean no harm with current Lyman owners. I love these Lymans just like you. But sometimes spending an additional $15 for a box of conicals & better nipple -- then grabbing FFF instead of FF -- then grabbing the RWS Dynamit Nobel caps instead of weaker ones will get your gun pointed in the right direction on "Day-1" at the range.

Come to think of it, I was at the range last week & the guy next to me had a new Lyman Trade.... same problem. After around 8 shots of hangfire, I handed him a nipple out of my ML tackle box I had from my former Pedersoli I think?, my FFF powder & RWS caps to try.... his next three shots went BOOM ... instead of PHYT-BOOM.

I like the Greatplains rifle too, but the weight is too much. I got the Lyman Deerstalker instead and love it. At 7 lbs, it is a pleasure to pack in the bush, and accurate to boot. I have taken many whitetails with patched balls from this rifle.

Triple se7en,

What load data do you use when you switch from FFg to FFFg or Pyredex P, or even the new stuff you seem to like (I'm just making an assumption here due to your handle).

I have switched to 777 for my Ruger Old Army and with the 158 gr. round ball from Hornady, I get 1350 fps over the chronograph with it. How much 777, you ask? I have no idea, I just pour it into the cylinder until it's about 1/4" from the top and swage a ball into it and grease'em. I have drilled out the Ruger nipples to the next largest drill bit on the machinist block (can't remember which one-I just kept trying the next size until I needed a drill to turn it inside the flash hole.) I have used both the CVA "HotFlash" and the newer Remington "40% hotter" labeled caps and I haven't had a problem since.

As for the slugs, I was planning on getting a package of the .45 cal bullet sabot shells and using the same slugs I use in my Casull--the Lyman #452651 mould. If I use pure lead it'll weigh about 330 gr. without the gascheck.

Thanks for the heads up on the 'pre-range time' do-it-yourself improvements for the Lyman gun.

454

Don't know a thing about pistol-reloading, but that light roundball load only needs to be reduced around 5 grains to be within an inch of your old targets.

777 needs no reduction sometimes going from FF to FFF with moderate-magnum loose loads (115 gr) I've tried with the Omega & standard 100 grain loads with my fast-twist GM barrel in my Renegade stock.

I left the range disgusted yesterday after measely 50 yard failure session trying to get 177 gr roundballs to work in my light-weight Traditions Deerhunter 1-48" twist that I'm passing down to my grandson in a couple more years. I want him to have a light powder load with the somewhat light roundball so he doesn't get recoil-shy right from the get-go.

I tried 50-80 grains 777 loose with four differently lubed patches... different cloth thicknesses also. There were times I didn't hit paper & I know that bore is super-free of sabot crap & sights are tight.

I guess I got plenty of time to get the bugs out.... ie.... around 700 more days before he reaches 10 years old.... my own suggested minimum age requirement I imposed on myself for teaching him.

Has anybody shot the Great Plains Hunter-1:32" twist version? I want to shoot my own cast bullets, so that's why I went for the twist rate.

I'm just wondering why you don't consider the Great Plains Rifle, with it's slow twist barrel, and cast your own round balls?

If you buy the Lyman, throw that nipple in the garbage & buy a Splitfire, Hot-Shot or Redhot. You can thank me for that suggestion after a couple of range visits using the original Lyman nipple.


I have had personal experience with 3 Lyman percussion rifles that had misfie problems, including my own GPR. In every case, the problem stemmed from the stock nipple being a bit too large in diameter to allow the perccussion caps being used to fully seat on the nipple. Each rifle would not fire on the first hammer strike, but would drive the cap further onto the nipple, and then would fire on the second strike. Chucking the stock nipple into a drill and filing it down until the cap would completely seat fixed all of them. My own GPR now fires reliably, every time, using standard CCI caps.

Changing the nipple for one that you have mentioned will certainly correct this problem, too, but may not be necessary.

330 gr. bullet vs. round ball; I'll choose physics every time--mass and knockdown power. If I got that 330 gr. slug to go 1250-1300 fps out of the rifle it would give me over 1000 ft. lbs at 40 yards, and it would still have over 900 at 75 yards. That would be more than enough for whitetail, and I wouldn't have to buy another mould.

As to grinding the nipple---that sounds painful. Wouldn't the drill chuck mess up the threads?

As for accuracy potential, I'd think that if I put the #57GPR peep sight on the back and the hooded front sight, the sight radius with that 32" barrel would be excellent--almost like those Sharps rifles with their Vernier sights. I know the muzzleloader won't go that far, but it sure would help shrink the groups.

As to lapping the barrel, I haven't bought a gun in the last 4 years that didn't need a serious lapping job. I got my match 1911 5 years ago, and it didn't need to be lapped.

330 gr. bullet vs. round ball; I'll choose physics every time--mass and knockdown power. If I got that 330 gr. slug to go 1250-1300 fps out of the rifle it would give me over 1000 ft. lbs at 40 yards, and it would still have over 900 at 75 yards. That would be more than enough for whitetail, and I wouldn't have to buy another mould.

Since you have never used roundballs, you probably don't realize how effective they are for whitetail. Ft/lbs of energy is not the only indicator of "knockdown power." This has been kicked around a lot and many experienced and renowned shooters make very convincing arguments for other factors that must be considered.

From my personal experience of harvesting more deer than I can remember, with roundballs, solid lead conicals, saboted pistol bullets and shotgun slugs, I can assure you that a .50cal roundball, pushed by a suitable amount of blackpowder, is more than enough to effective and humanely take any whitetail on this planet, if you place the ball in the heart/lung kill zone and at a range of up to 100 yds, maybe a bit more. If you desire more energy just get a .54cal and reduce the carrying weight of the rifle as well.

Within 65-70 yds, I have dropped more whitetail, in their tracks, with roundballs from .50cal and up, than I have with any other projectile.

As to grinding the nipple---that sounds painful. Wouldn't the drill chuck mess up the threads?.

Wrap the threads with electrical tape until they are the same size as the shoulder of the nipple. Chuck the nipple into a drill press, or a drill clamped in a vise, with the ends of the chuck's jaws just grasping the nipple's shoulder. Touch a file to the side of the nipple as you spin it with the drill. Don't take too much metal off at once. Remove a bit. Check it for fit. Remove a bit more. Check again, etc., until you get it right. Simple! It takes more time to write about it than it does to do it.

As for accuracy potential, I'd think that if I put the #57GPR peep sight on the back and the hooded front sight, the sight radius with that 32" barrel would be excellent.

Peep sights can be extremely accurate but do cause some visibility problems during low light hunting conditions. I would recommend at least trying the open sights, although the sights on the GPR & GPH leave a bit to be desired. However, a little work with a file on the front blade and the rear notch, along with a dab of bright white, or yellow paint, on the front blade, improves them tremendously.

The Great Plains, is my current all around front stuffer, it does have the option to have both bbls, for a few dollars more. I would recommend this, as a round ball shooter who has tried all the slugs, sabots and what not I went back to the round ball and will never try another projectile. I have the .54 cal and a 235gn slug pushed by 60 to 100gns of 2f seems to get the job done whether it be big or small game. If you stick with the original sights I recommend filing down the rear into a flat instead of the buck horn configuration for a better sight picture. I converted my front to a fiber optic by drilling the front sight and cutting a notch in top of it 1/2 inch long and then using a piece of fiber optic from a bow sight inserted in the hole and glued in. Worked for me. I have shot it with 777 and pyrodex and they do work as well.

I happen to believe that each of us deserves to have at least one custom rifle in our lifetime. This may be your golden opportunity to order a custom "Kentucky" rifle, either flint or percussion. Go ahead - treat yourself.

Some rifles built by custom makers are available from Dixie Gun Works, www.dixiegunworks.com, and Track of the Wolf, www.trackofthewolf.com. A long list of custom makers is available from the Contemporary Longrifle Association, www.longrifle.ws.

I have gotten my deer in Michigan's U.P. the last two years in a row with my .50 flintlock. I don't think I'll ever hunt the regular rifle season again.

454, 1:32 is plenty fast for conical bullets. The original Hawken rifles were bored 1:48 (at least some of them), which is what I have in my rifle. It was developed as a compromise twist that would shoot round balls and conicals alike, and it still works. I would probably get a slower twist on a squirrel rifle, but the 1:48 is plenty accurate for anything I would use a .54 to shoot, with RB, conical, or sabot.

Has anybody shot the Great Plains Hunter-1:32" twist version? I want to shoot my own cast bullets, so that's why I went for the twist rate.

454casshootr,

I own a Lyman GPH w/ the 1:32" twist. I use it every season here in western NY for whitetail instead of a slug shotgun. I specifically bought it to shoot conicals. I too wanted a more traditional muzzleloader.

I shoot .50 cal 400 gr Keith Nose HP from PR Bullet over 90 gr of Goex FFg. This load has been very accurate out of this rifle for me. That and putting a Lyman aperture sight on it instead of the buckhorn.

I have also been working with a .45 cal 330 gr Spire Point in sabot over 90 or 100 grs of FFg. I haven't got this load to group as well though. I think my GPH prefers .50 cal conicals to sabots.

I too had misfire problems with mine. I did not change or alter my nipple, but I did switch from CCI #11 caps to the hotter Remington #11 and I haven't had a misfire since.

I think you'll be pleased with the 1:32" twist version. The 9lbs weight is good for holding the sights on target, but it gets tiring luggin' it around the woods all day.