I need help selecting a handgun at an upcoming gun show. I have been a big game hunter for years but never practiced with a handgun. I am able to handle a .45 or such. I would like to spend less than $600 or so. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks

I'm assuming you're looking for one for hunting or are you looking at one for CCW/self defense?

no for hunting. self defense mainly.

thanks

If you are already trained with a 1911 go that route. If you are not experanced with a handgun I would recommend a 4 in 357 revolver for all around use. :)

In choosing a handgun for self defense, you have to
make a lot of decisions about how and where it is
going to be used. Is it to be kept in the house, in
the car, on your person? Do you have a CCW per-
mit? It is always a compromise between size and
stopping power for a carry gun, and there is no
right answer for everybody. If you buy a big,
powerful gun, you may find yourself leaving it at
home, if you buy a small gun of lesser power it may
not do the job when you need it. You can buy a
small gun with big power but it will be hard to con-
trol and recoil like ****. Of course, if you just in-
tend to leave it at home for home defense, then it
is much easier to choose. Remember tho, that you
are statistically about 5 times more likely to be put
in a dangerous situation when you are away from
your home than at home.

thanks guy for the replys. I do have a carry permit so I would like to carry it. (I had the option of getting a carry permit instead of a simple purchase permit) But I will not carry it until I can effectivly handle it in any situation. I expect to put several hundred rounds through it before I would consider carrying it. In my limited experience with handguns it seems I am more comfortable with a smaller grip.

Not really knowing handguns well what are best options Glock, Ruger, SIG, etc

Thanks guys.

I have three handguns. A Beretta 92FS 9 mm, a SIG P226 40 S & W and a S & W .357 revolver with a 4 inch barrel. The Beretta is too big for concealed carry. I don't carry the S & W much cause it only has 5 shots and is not the easiest to shoot that caliber in such a small gun. My SIG is a little smaller than the Beretta and I carry that but depending on the clothing I wear, I have to be conscious of it sticking out. If you can find a SIG in your price range, it's a great handgun. I've had two and fired thousands of rounds and have yet to have a malfunction.

The other I had was the P226 in a 9mm but gave it to my dad when he got his CCW and he has also yet to have a malfunction of any kind. In fact when he got his CCW and had to do the firing, his was the only one at the range that day that didn't have a malfunction and guys were asking him what kind it was.

My uncle has a .45 for his CCW and I can't remember the make but it is a great handgun for concealed carry and it is smaller than my SIG. I think it holds 8 rounds. I want to say it is a Colt Defender. It's kinda a scaled down 1911 and I'd take one in a sec as it's compact and in a great caliber.

I like the smaller grips too, and for some reason I've always
been able to hit better with a 1911-style pistol than any other.
You might look at a compact 1911-style .45, 3-4 inch barrel,
Colt, Springfield Armory, Auto-Ordnance. There are a lot of
these type pistols out there but the prices on the Kimbers
and some others run high. The Ruger autos are very good
for their cost, a compact mdl 93 or 94 in 9MM might suit you.

personally i'm a ruger man.... they are over built and very reliable, also, if you are looking for a good .45 for under $600 i would recomend the (k)p345 or the (k)p97, both very good guns at a reasonable price. if you want it to carry they are compareable to most 1911's. though I would recomend that you shoot whatever your looking at before you buy.

How about one of those S&W .32 H&R magnums? they weight under 14 oz and they're not TOO bad to shoot, plus you get 6 shots of .38 special level power in a J-frame.

thanks guy for the replys. I do have a carry permit so I would like to carry it. (I had the option of getting a carry permit instead of a simple purchase permit) But I will not carry it until I can effectivly handle it in any situation. I expect to put several hundred rounds through it before I would consider carrying it. In my limited experience with handguns it seems I am more comfortable with a smaller grip.

Not really knowing handguns well what are best options Glock, Ruger, SIG, etc

Thanks guys.

You have to consider how you will carry.

Most holster options are bulky and as far as I can tell not used 100% of the time.

Personally I carry 24/7 and use a Bauer 25 (stainless copy of an FN baby browning). Now before all of the folks who would not go outside without a pistol that does not have a caliber that begins with a "4" jump down on me. I want something that I can have with me at all times and not need to think about it, something that is the size of a squeeze change purse (I carry a squeeze change purse in the pocket with it to break up the outline).

It will not stop a gorilla but if needed I know it will always be there as long as I have my pants on and at distances under 10 feet it is all the accuracy I would ever need. At distances over 10 feet I would be running regardless of what I was carrying.

If your looking for a multi-use pistol. Might I recomend the Glock. They make them in many calibers. 9X19mm, 10mm, .40 S&W, .380 ACP, .357 Sig, .45 ACP, and the new .45 GAP. I would go to their website and see what they offer. I myself carry a Glock 23C. I use it both as my duty pistol and also as my CCW pistol. Though I do my self own a Colt 1911. I find it too bulky for CCW work and also I don't like that it's a SA semi-auto. A DA pistol is best for a CCW pistol, and if those don't suit your fancy. A Walther PP in .380 ACP or a Makarov in 9X18mm. Both work great for ankle guns. I also have both. I like my DDR Makarov because it's cheap to get ammo for and also alot of them are now coming into the country. So more loads are being made for the caliber. What ever you choose. I hope you get the best pistol for what your needs are.

Glock 23C

Just wondering, why do you say DA is the best concealed carry?

I find that it's better because to do not need to take the safety off or cock the weapon. With a DA pistol such as a Walther PP or Makarov pistol. You can have a round in battery with the safety off and have the hammer resting with out worring about it going off. If you need it, you just draw and pull the trigger to fire. I find it faster because there is less to do. Speed wins in fire fights. He that shoots the first aimed round. Wins.

With a DA only pistol such as a Glock. You have round in battery with a trigger safety. As i said. I never trust the mechcanical safety. But to me, its still safer than a SA pistol. (I carry my Glock in the Glock fast-draw belt holster. It completely covers the trigger so nothing can snag the trigger and cause a misfire.) Or the LW Seecamp, there is no safety what so ever. But it's small enough that I carry it in a leather holster. They make it so you can have it just like a wallet in your back pocket.

I don't like the idea of carrying a 1911A1 with a round in battery and having it cockd. Yes there is a safety there. But i never trust mechcanical safeties. And if I have a round in battery with the hammer resting. I have to cock it. That can take time away. (Even a milisecond can mean the difference between life and death.)

SA pistols are great. I know a couple, a Colt 1911A1 Model 80. And also a FN Model 1935 Browning High Power. I have carried them on rare occasions. But I like my DA pistols better. Glock, LW Seecamp, Walther PP, and Makarov.

THE GLOCK IS NOT A DOUBLE ACTION that is marketing BS.
It is a single action WITH NO SAFETY!!!
I HAVE TO CARRY ONE ON THE JOB WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND THEM TO ANYONE.
I have owned many hand guns, trained hundreds of people, both sworn and civilian and the glock is only popular because it is cheap and simple. They are unsafe and if you check you will see that the glocks sold in other countrys HAVE A MANUAL SAFETY. :mad:

Glock 23C: I dont understand this fear of manual safety. Considering people have been carrying cocked and locked longer than glocks have been around.

Jim: Some interesting stuff there, i've shot them and dont really like them they feel like... well they feel like my little brothers joys! I always have prefered revolvers but a nice auto and alright, on the other hand, glocks just feel...yick. I don't want to defend myself with my moms tupperware.

44SandW, I don't have a great fear of manual safeties. I was just brought up not to trust them. Your best safety is yourself. It's just personal choice. I love my Colt 1911A1 and also my FN Model 1935 High Power. I carry them sometimes for hunting. I know that people have been carrying SA for a loooong time. But as I said, it's all about personal choice.

When I was first issued my Glock 17, I was sicken. I also had the idea that combat tupperware is useless. But after carrying one for a awhile on duty and also shooting it. I begean to love it. Hence I now own a Glock 19, Glock 23C, Glock 36, and Glock 21. There fun little pistols.

And althought i dont agree with you, i do love your signature!

Thanks 44SandW. I take it that you meant the Sigmund Freud quote.

I need help selecting a handgun at an upcoming gun show. I have been a big game hunter for years but never practiced with a handgun. I am able to handle a .45 or such. I would like to spend less than $600 or so. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Stay away from 9mm as a carry defense weapon. It simply has horrible knock down power. For the money stick with something like a .357. Personally I have a Taurus .44 special in titanium (very light) for my CCW.

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=445TB2C&category=Revolver


Somthing to not carry but have in the house:
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=444SS6&category=Revolver

So a 9 has 'horrible knock down power'! Sense there is no such thing as 'knock down power' I don't know what you are talking about????? :confused:
I carry a 9 with 127gr JHP (Winchester) that clocks 1285 fps from my gun. In case that doesn't compute that is 357 MAG BALLISTICS! :cool:
As has been stated MANY times:
1. Get a gun that is realiable, AND YOU CAN SHOW ACCURATLY WITH THE AMMO YOU ARE GOING TO CARRY.
2. Choose ammo that will penatrate 12 to 14 inches and expand in the process.
The most important part of the equation is to place the shots where they need to be. The second part is to have those shots cause as much injury as possible (well placed trauma is what stops fights). :D

Stay away from 9mm as a carry defense weapon. It simply has horrible knock down power.
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I disagree, the 9mm has been in hundreds of police shootings and has a very good track record. It is a good and proven stopper providing you put the bullet where it can do it's job.

Thanks guys for the replys. I shot a (k)p345 Ruger last night and I liked it. Maybe not a good carry piece but I first need to learn to shoot accurately.

Also, once you get accurate with a certain pistol can you shoot others semi-accurate also or do you have to get used to each individual piece.

Thanks again

So a 9 has 'horrible knock down power'! Sense there is no such thing as 'knock down power' I don't know what you are talking about????? :confused:
I carry a 9 with 127gr JHP (Winchester) that clocks 1285 fps from my gun. In case that doesn't compute that is 357 MAG BALLISTICS! :cool:
As has been stated MANY times:
1. Get a gun that is realiable, AND YOU CAN SHOW ACCURATLY WITH THE AMMO YOU ARE GOING TO CARRY.
2. Choose ammo that will penatrate 12 to 14 inches and expand in the process.
The most important part of the equation is to place the shots where they need to be. The second part is to have those shots cause as much injury as possible (well placed trauma is what stops fights). :D

I personally dont believe your "Ballistics" considering that people have barely gotten the 9x23Win. to match the .357 magnum. the 9mm is .38 Spl territory at best. I also dont agree on the penatration, over penetration anyone? If you want an example of how poorly the 9mm does or has done read about the FBI shoot out.

Hisrvnt, This goes in the"for what it's worth" column.
1] Semi auto or revolver
2]caliber [largest you can safely and proficiently
handle]
3] concealability / comfort


The above for a carry gun. My personal carry gun , Colt Commander. This is a 4.5" version of of the "regular" 1911, in .45acp. For home defense 12ga.pump shotgun with ghost ring sights ,loaded with 00buck.
No matter what you choose,PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. And have a plan.

The NRA Personal Protection In The Home course is a great place to start.
T.C.Berni

hsrvnt,
the 345 isn't a bad pistol as far as I know. Ruger has a good track record for dependable firearms. You did open the what caliber is best can of worms :D but that is to be expected. I didn't see it open yet this week so getting to Wednesday isn't bad. Well done! :D

For me, for personal defense;
.357 magnum
.45 acp
9mm x 18 Makarov

Yeah, the Mak isn't sexy or known for its POWER, but I don't know of anyone who wants to be shot with one, do any of you guys?

44,
Beleive what ever you wish. Winchester sell this 127 +p+ at an advertised velocity of 1250 fps. We started using it about 15 years ago haveing used the 147 gr JUNK for several years because the FBI recommended it (it was a 38 sp ballisticly).
We have had several shooting with it and it has lived up to it's expectations (357 ballistics). I have clocked it in three 9's and they all were 1285 +-5. :p
The only thing I do not agree with is it is sold LEO only!! :mad:
Just because I am in Law Enforcement should not make my life any more important than anyone elses. :( So the average citizen should have access to this good stuff too. :confused:

+p+ is high presure ammo for sure a 45 loaded to such presure is called the 45 super again at equal presure 45's win the power debate any amount of power a smaller cartridge can acheive a larger one loaded to the same presure can surpass 127 grain+p+ is .355 diameter 230 grain @ 1000fps {Buffalo Bore] factory load is .451 diameter I will take the bigger of the two

An old saying comes to mind
" A hit with a 38 is better than a miss with a 357". ;)
Carry whatever you like, BUT BE SURE TO CARRY IT EVEN IF IT IS LARGE AND HEAVY.
The one that gets there first is usualy the winner. :D

Also, once you get accurate with a certain pistol can you shoot others semi-accurate also or do you have to get used to each individual piece. Once you have mastered the basics of handgun shooting, you will be capable of shooting any handgun accurately. There will be a familiarization period for different handguns but the basics are still the same. I don't know if this answered your question.

I guess I don't understand how a lighter bullet moving slower equals .357 Mag ballistics.

Mine are 1539 FPS with a 158Gr. Gold Dot.

On the other hand, a 9 MM is a fine carry pistol, a .40 S&W is just about perfect, higher capacity, and more downrange energy. A 10 MM would be perfect, but it has limited availability in new pistols, unless you like glocks. yuck.

OR the EAA witness...

Matt,
357 ballistics for human targets = 125 gr JHP at 1250 to 1450 fps.
158 gr bullets are NOT good defence rounds. They cause less injury to the target AS THEY PASS THORUGH than the 125 gr. ;)
When we are talking about auto rounds with simular ballistics we are talking about 110 to 130 gr at 1200+ in .355 to .357.
Hope that helped clear things up a little. :)

No not really because that means that if Mattsbox99 loaded the .357 to the same preasure as he does with the 158 with a 125gr then it would be going even faster, IE stronger than your 9mm.

Good question.
My wife keeps telling me not to assume everone knows what I know!! :confused:
It has been found in real world shooting that if a 357 is used requardless of bbl length the wound was about the same, thus the effect was about the same.
A 2 1/2 in bbl gives you approx 1250 fps,
a 4 in bbl approx 1450 fps,
and a 6 in bbls 1550+ fps but the effect on the 'human' target is, for our purposes, the same. Thus the 1250 fps is the base for 357 Mag 125 gr loads.
Hope this helped. :)

Good question.
My wife keeps telling me not to assume everone knows what I know!! :confused:
It has been found in real world shooting that if a 357 is used requardless of bbl length the wound was about the same, thus the effect was about the same.
A 2 1/2 in bbl gives you approx 1250 fps,
a 4 in bbl approx 1450 fps,
and a 6 in bbls 1550+ fps but the effect on the 'human' target is, for our purposes, the same. Thus the 1250 fps is the base for 357 Mag 125 gr loads.
Hope this helped. :)

Don't get upset Jim just a good debate and a sharring of knowledge and experience

I've never shot human targets before, but if pumpkins are anything like that, then you can tell a major difference in velocity and bullet weight.

I spent a lot of time in physics classes, and the things you type just don't make sense. I'm not trying to be mean or disrespectful... and I don't know anything else about you.

I've never shot human targets before, but if pumpkins are anything like that, then you can tell a major difference in velocity and bullet weight.

I spent a lot of time in physics classes, and the things you type just don't make sense. I'm not trying to be mean or disrespectful... and I don't know anything else about you.
Matt,
I too have spend ALOT of time in physics classes, but that is just half of what we are talking about. The other half is biology, more specificly human physiology. This is harder to research than the physics. What I speak of is a combinition of 'class room' knowledge and real world experance. I have seen first hand and in soon postmortems what bullets do. I try and bring this to the table. What happens to water jugs and fruit does not alway show the effect of a projectile on the human body. :)

Ok Jim I am going to take a crack at sheding some light on what I believe that you are referring to and that is at about 1250 fps to 1450fps give or take a little is that the permanate wound channel is the same although the tempary wound channel would be larger with the higher velocity and since the tempary wound channel has been proven to be meaningless in incapacitating an advesary thus the statement that they are the same believing in the tempary wound channel is what caused the FBI to proclaim the 9mm tops in the 70' to begin with if this is not what you meant let us know also when shooting water or fruit there is no tempary wound channel thus the difference in the results with the higher speeds

You made a statement about the tempory wound channel not being avaliable in the 'fruit' when in fact that is all you are seeing in any test median that has no connective tissue (animal tissue is VERY tough compared to most test media). All you are seeing in 'jruit' or 'water jugs' is the hydrostatic action, aka temp. wound channel.
In every system desruction there is a thursh hold were more destruction is not nessessary to obtain the the desired effect.
The velocity's we are descussing are an example of this. As a more dramatic example is in the use of explosives. If one lb of C-4 will 'cut' the beam and you use two lbs the effect is the same, the beam is cut the rest is wasted or unneeded energy. This is what the real world results and the wound cavity test show refferance the 357 mag 125 gr. 1250 fps is this thursh hold. :) This is refered to in laymens terms as "Over Kill". ;)
But as Elmer always said "Dead's dead". :D

I agree what I meant is that what would have been the tempary wound channel in fruit and or water remains perminant therefore no tempary channel.I think we mean the same thing just saying it different and I realize more power doesnot always mean better ie a 22-250 is better on coyottes than a 300mag

If you want something new and hi-tech, I'd look at the SW99, although it's going to be at the upper limit of your price range. If you are a fellow Neanderthal, my personal all-time favorite is the 2.5" round-butt S&W Mod 19. It's a six-shot .357, and you can find them on Auctionarms.com selling in the $300-$400 range. I'd go for a 19-4 or older, with the pinned barrel and recessed chambers, but I'm a caveman type. If you sweat a lot, you can get it in stainless as the Mod. 66, but you'll have to look harder to find one. I have a 1911 (real 1911; not an A1), like it and trust it, but you need to get good training and stay in training to stay safe with one, in my personal opinion. Same goes for a Glock, Sigma and most other autos. For a weekend shooter, a DA revolver would be my pick. I can't argue with marineman; Ruger makes a good product, but I teethed on Smith & Wesson and it's still the most natural thing for me to shoot.

Im going to be rude.

Jim, you lost give it up.

I didn't know there was a contest!!! :confused:
What did I lose?? :confused:

THIS ARGUEMENT! your trying to prove that you can make a max 9mm = a max .357 and you wrong stop arguing its getting old!

excuse me for being an exciteable young guy but Seeing someone trying to argue this is like me trying to prove that 2 + 2 = fish.

Hey kids... its an internet forum.... people disagree.... don't go overboard.

http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2715

Matt, I love your link.

Lee L.

I know... I couldn't stop laughing....

"I'll kill you with my desert eagle!"

THIS ARGUEMENT! your trying to prove that you can make a max 9mm = a max .357 and you wrong stop arguing its getting old!

excuse me for being an exciteable young guy but Seeing someone trying to argue this is like me trying to prove that 2 + 2 = fish.

And getting ballistic advice from someone who doesn't own any guns is helpful, too :D

Thanks for participating, but keep in mind the old adage: "a man has got to know his limitations"

THIS ARGUEMENT! your trying to prove that you can make a max 9mm = a max .357 and you wrong stop arguing its getting old!

excuse me for being an exciteable young guy but Seeing someone trying to argue this is like me trying to prove that 2 + 2 = fish.
I am not arguing. I am giving information I have learned form my mistakes, experance, testing, and research over the last 50 + years. You and anyone else can use this as you see fit. I don't realy care who wish to beleive it or not. I have been there, saw that, done that, and have the scars to prove it. :rolleyes:

I apologise for my outbursts, school and work have my stressed out, its finals week and my job is not being helpful, i work at a camera/photo supply place and they're being a pain about me buying supplys! oy vay. Not to mention my other half being out of town doesn't help much either.

Again sorry about that.

44,
I didn't take offence. But thanks for the apology. ;)
Sorry to hear that life is sending alot of lemons your way, hope you find a way to make some lemonade out of them!!! :)

I'm trying to man, tomorrow we're shooting eggs at 50 yards with handguns. I'm going to be taking a crack at it (no pun intended) for the first time, probably going to use the FA .454 cassul

Now that is something I have never done!!! But it sounds like fun. :) I would like life to slow down some I could spend more time shooting. I have a rifle and pistol range at my house but still need the time to shoot and reload!! :confused:
Good shooting! Do you think the 454 has enought umph to break the eggs??? ;)

Very funny, the FA .454 is one of the most accurate handguns i've never shot so why not? i just hope it can crack the shell? :-p

I need help selecting a handgun at an upcoming gun show. I have been a big game hunter for years but never practiced with a handgun. I am able to handle a .45 or such. I would like to spend less than $600 or so. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Please read my post Kimber or Para dated today and think Application.

Your right! most folks dont realize that you can shoot the Glock single action. I think that these folks also dont realize what goes on in a situation. They also wont be thinking all the target practice stuff they have been tought. It is extremly tough to practice real world scenerio's.
Hats off to the folks in Blue and support the troops who right now face these life threating situations.
I cant even imagine the actions I would take at a first time or anytime situation.
LC

The ONLY way you can shoot a glock is single action. Pulling the triger will not 'cock' (reset the striker) the weapon!!!! :confused:

Well from what Glock says its not Single action its "Safe action" :D

Well from what Glock says its not Single action its "Safe action" :D
It is called 'marketing'. Until I trained with/owned a glock I was under this same impression. But after I became knowlageable of the glock and how it functioned I realized it is propaganda. THE IDEA IS TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS YOU CAN AND WHAT YOU SAY TO SELL THE PRODUCT DON'T MATTER!!! :confused:
The same goes for the 'safe action' lie!! There is no active safety on the glock, press on the trigger and it fires!! The glock is 'advertised' with three safties.
1. The lever on the trigger which requires pressure on the trigger to operate. This is a non-saftey, a true safety is placed on a weapon so if there is unintentional pressure on the triger it will not fire. On a glock it doesn't matter if the pressure on the trigger is intentional or not it actavates the firing sequence.
2. They advertise 'two' other safeties which are one in the same on anyother handgun. A firing pin block prevents the firing pin from traveling far enough forward to strike the primer unless the trigger is pulled all the way. Glock states it also has a 'drop safety' which is why the firing pin block was incorperated in pistols in the last few decades!!! ;)
Go figure!!! :rolleyes:

I humbly suggest that trading a few Physics credits for a more intensive Spelling curriculum would be in order... :p