I just came across some 30-06 LC68 match brass and M72 173 gr. bullets. I was thinking of loading it up for my m1903A3. Anybody have a good starting load - was planning on loading with IMR4895.

I also read somewhere that standard sizer dies will wear out LC brass faster than commercial cases. Something about the brass being thicker and the expander ball stretching the brass more. Is there anybody out there that modifies the dies so they will work better with military brass?

I just came across some 30-06 LC68 match brass and M72 173 gr. bullets. I was thinking of loading it up for my m1903A3. Anybody have a good starting load - was planning on loading with IMR4895.

I also read somewhere that standard sizer dies will wear out LC brass faster than commercial cases. Something about the brass being thicker and the expander ball stretching the brass more. Is there anybody out there that modifies the dies so they will work better with military brass?

Yes the brass is thciker, but not all that much thicker in the case neck area (and not really a factor in a m1903A3 as it was made for that kind of ammo). If it worries you, a Lee collet die should do the trick just fine....you control the amount of neck sizing.

Now if you are like me, may find shorter case life simply becasue the brass, although unfired, is still 37 years old.

I am curious...you say the age of the brass would cause it to wear prematurely....would annealing the brass help extend the lifespan of the brass?

I have done this to some case-necks when reforming for wildcats...specifically 30-30 to 7-30 Waters, and had alot fewer rejects with the annealed brass....

Darrell

I am curious...you say the age of the brass would cause it to wear prematurely....would annealing the brass help extend the lifespan of the brass?

I have done this to some case-necks when reforming for wildcats...specifically 30-30 to 7-30 Waters, and had alot fewer rejects with the annealed brass....

Darrell

A lot of it depends on how it was stored for those years. Annealing changes the neck/shoulder's grain structure, but as we can't anneal the head area, if the brass is age-hardened (or chemical vapor damaged) there is nothing much we can do about the back 2/3 of the case.

Stored correctly and not subject to any chemical vapors (even some normal household cleaning agents), should last just fine.

Military brass usually is harder (at least at the head if not the neck) and thicker than most commercial brass...no harm in that when using apropriate loads for the lesser case volume.

Anneal if you like...personally, if the case mouth can be easily squeezed out of round with my fingers, consider it soft enough as it is, and would save annealing until later. Real life: I seldom anneal any case that is easy to come by...will anneal (1) expensive brass or (2) brass I have to work at to fire form or lathe thrun...but the "normal" calibers either get trashed or tossed in the "reduced load" box once they get to that stage.

I just came across some 30-06 LC68 match brass and M72 173 gr. bullets. I was thinking of loading it up for my m1903A3. Anybody have a good starting load - was planning on loading with IMR4895.

I also read somewhere that standard sizer dies will wear out LC brass faster than commercial cases. Something about the brass being thicker and the expander ball stretching the brass more. Is there anybody out there that modifies the dies so they will work better with military brass?


Craig,
There should not be any problems reloading LC military brass. I have been doing it for years for various .30-06 rifles. Check the primer pocket to determine if the military primer was crimped in place. If so, you will need to cut out or swage out the crimp. RCBS has a swaging die for large and small primer pockets. Lyman has a hand tool that works well for small lots of cases.

IMR4895 is a good powder choice for the .30-06. Just follow the recommendation in a reloading manual (Hornady, Lyman, Sierra or Speer to name a few). I resize brass until it just works easily when closing the bolt. All the best...
Gil

The original M72 load consisted of 50 grains of IMR4895 powder, but of course, start below this and work your way up safely. There is no crimp on this brass, so you won't have to deal with that. While the brass is heavier than commercial brass, the case neck thickness is not any thicker than commercial brass. You should not need to anneal it. Since the brass was not fired in your rifle, you will need to full-length resize it initially. However, if you are concerned about case life, you can alway go to neck sizing after it has been fired in your rifle. While it is good brass, I have found it to have wild fluctuations in case weight (hence case capacity). I suggest you sort the brass by weight for optimal accuracy.

Don

I've been using LCNM brass for quite awhile now (about 10 years) in several 03s and have yet to wear them out. They are segreated by batch to a particular rifle and is neck sized with Lee collet die. The rather generous chambers in the 03s readily allow any variance in neck thickness. Ocassionally I will have a split neck, but no more so than any other brass with repeated firings (might want to anneal after X number of firings). After an initial trim at about the 2nd or 3rd firing the cases remain fairly uniform for quite awhile.

One other thought. O3s are relatively light, and a steady diet milsurp equivalent loads will wear YOU out. Hodgdon has published some data called youth loads, some of which are very accurate (see their web site) and rather comfortable to shoot. Many people shoot cast exclusively to retain barrel life. If it were me, I'd save those NM bullets for target loads for high power. I loaded my last batch of those bullets just last week, and sure wish I had more at the same price I got that last batch (long tome ago)! sundog

I loaded up some today and headed out to the range. Thanks all for all the info - I appreciate it.

I loaded ten rounds 44 gr. IMR4895, got groups that were low and about 4"x4" pattern. 10 rounds of 46 gr. looked a bit better, in the X & 2"x2". 6 were within half inch of dead center.

So I guess if I just bump the charge up a grain or two I should be able to shoot some good groups - I'm not so concerned about keeping the bullets in the center, I'll just shoot a bit lower @ 100 yds, not so low at 200, and dead on at 300. I don't like to mess with the rear site. 46 gr. loads were clocking between 2560 - 2605 fps.

Had to break in this unfired brass so now hopefully things will just get better. I ordered a Lee collet die to go with my 30-06 Pacesetter set.

USSR- That 50 grain load sounds pretty hefty. 46.5 grains of IMR4895 was always the standard for match rounds with the 168 grain Sierra. With the 173, I think that's more like where I would land. I know you can get to 49 or 50 grains with Varget, and fill the case better, if that's what you're after?

Nick

Got to agree with Unclenick...that seems a bit warm for those thick military cases.

Sorry, Guys, but 50 grains of IMR4895 is the officially listed government load for M72 ammo.

Don

Load what you want...but none of the modern manuals I've looked in go that high, and commercial cases are larger volumed. Don't think you'll destroy your gun or anything, but do think that those cases are due for a short life span.

FWIW, comparing the primers of the 44 grain load to the 46 grain load I noticed the 46 gr primers had a little radius on the edge, not quite a sharp 90 as opposed to the 44 gr primers, which looked same as before they were fired. I didn't notice any pressure signs on the cases.

I don't doubt that 50 gr is a spec load, but as was mentioned above I'm sure the case life would go way down.

Here are the MV's I got with the 46 grain load:

2578, 2560, 2553, 2570, 2559, 2570, 2569, 2578, 2584, 2567

I think the published data I found gave a MV for Match ammo of 2650 or so - and I think .5 - 1 grain will probably get me there.

Did run down a reference to the 1966 National Match loading: 174gr. FMJBT and 47.2gr. 4895 as produced by the Lake City Army Ammution Plant for the 1966 Camp Perry Matches.

.

Rib,

That's more like it. I wouldn't be surprised to see the official charge range a bit from the 46.5 grains I saw in the old CMP manual just because of lot differences either in the brass or the powder itself.

My internal ballistics program puts the pressure from 47.2 grains at around 46,000 PSI under a 175 grain Matchking (I once weighed some M72 pulled bullets, and they were all actually 174.5 grains from that lot, so the Sierra is as close as my program will come). Very safe. A 50 grain charge, on the other hand, results in about 54,000 PSI. OK in a Garand in good condition, but not something I would risk in a Springfield. Especially not a low serial number (which probably just shouldn't be fired at all because of the reciever heat treating problems they had).

Dropping the bullet weight to 150 grains brings that 50 grain charge of 4895 right down to the same 46,000 PSI as the 47.2 grain charge gave with the heavier bullet. Maybe that's the origin of the bigger powder splash? It was intended for a lighter bullet?

Nick

Here's the link listing the loadings for the various U.S. military issued .30-06 cartridges:

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/30_ammo.html

You can load your .30-06 down to .308 Win velocities if you want, but this is the way the U.S. military does it.

Don

YOur gun...your loads....your choice.

An awful lot of 4895 has been produced over the years, by a bunch of different people, even different formulations of what is supposed to be the 'same' powder. Likewise..... plenty of conflicting data sources.

If it's not modern data, approach with caution. Some of the data from the 50s-60s-70s was worked up with WWII surplus powder......

personally, think about 47.5 gr of IMR4895 in a military case and under a 173 gr BTFMJ might the the max load I'd consider for this cartridge.

I did run across the site that USSR posted - not to discredit the data there, but since it doesn't appear to be official, I guess I have to question it. I did run across some info about loading for the M1 which suggested a little higher charge to get within the proper pressure curve.

While I haven't loaded up some more rounds and gone out to the range, I plan on trying the 47.2 gr charges soon. I think that will put me in the range of the advertised velocity for M72 Match (2640 fps).

I loaded up some new LC 68 match brass with M72 bullets and a charge of 47.2 grains of IMR 4895. Shot them at my club's CMP practice night, 200 yds. I didn't have my chrono with me, but overall they seemed to work very well. I shot some M2 ball I had left over first, then switched to the handloads. I found that I had to set the rear sight on my 1903A3 to the 300 yard setting. After that I was shooting 9's and 10's, got 4 10X's in 20 round slow prone.

Overall I think that the 47.2 loading works well, the accuracy seems to be very good - but of course my rifle shoots better than I do at the moment - hopefully that will change over the course of the summer.

Bought a big batch of LC Match cases a while back.
I also have a big batch of regular (non match) milsurp 30-06 brass, as well as some commercial brass.
Out of curiosity, I did some weighing of cases. Found that standard milsurp brass is indeed heavier (thicker) than commercial brass, by a good 20 grains or more.
Now, the LC Match brass weighs just about the same as W-W commercial brass, and is significantly lighter than standard milsurp stuff.
FWIW

Jack,

Yeah, and you have to decrimp the regular milsurp brass, but not the military match brass.

Don