Kroil
I went to the match in Palm Bay FL on 9 April, 2005; where I leaded the barrels on my Martini 30/30 bench gun and Maynard Model 16 in 32/35. At Burger King, while drowning my sorrows in a biggie-sized meal, I tried to figure out why my guns were leading. I have a set of rifles that work well without leading-or did. Along with the two mentioned above, there’s a M54 Winchester in 30/30 and a C. Sharps Model 1875 45/70 that have been very reliable until lately. Leading is caused by bullets that are too small; I believed this and tested this theorem for many years. The bullets for these rifles were of the correct sizes; something else had gone wrong.
Munching my way along, I had just about decided that the alloy was at fault. Wheelweights, but I’ve been using wheelweights forever.
Then, while stuffing fries in my pie hole, I thought about the Kroil. I’d seen Kroil advertised in old gun magazines, but never seen Kroil itself until recently. I bought a can about a year ago and liked it. It cleaned well, and later I found that a tight Kroiled patch, tight enough to squeak when it was pushed through the barrel, would remove lead slivers. I have been using this method to remove lead for months, and wondering why the lead? Cleaning every 2-3 sighters and 10 record shots was mandatory.
Sucking up my diet Pepsi (I do care what I look like) I thought that perhaps the Kroil was at fault.
At home I cleaned these four rifles with Marvel Mystery Oil-what I used to use for cleaning-and patched a little lithium grease into the barrels.
Wednesday, April 13, 2005, I shot each rifle over 25 rounds each and then cleaned. There was no lead in any barrel. The 30/30’s, with bullets lubricated with NRA Alox lube, took the normal 8-10 patches to get a clean patch. The Sharps and Maynard showed clean patches after four-Darr lube has always worked like this in the past. Groups were fine in the strong wind, with a 45/70 group at 1.3”, some 30/30 groups under 1”, and 27 shots through the Maynard in 3.45” wide X 2.5” high.
I’m convinced that it’s the Kroil, that the Kroil cleans the barrel TOO clean, causing the barrel to lead. Following the Kroil with Marvel Mystery Oil and lithium grease may solve the problem, but I’m back to MMO for all lead load cleaning and the Kroil’s going on the shelf.
Joe b.

Interesting, I wonder if others will find this does it for them also. Be a good tip it that's the case. Good luck and see if you can get others to try it in your group. Might something to get a study going and find out if that's the case on long term testing.

Kroil is more of a solvent than an oil. There is a fine, but definite line between solvent and lubricant. Some solvents have a minimal amount of lubricating properties to them but not much. The faster the pentrating ability, the higher the solvent content. Kroil works great for getting stuff loose and for cleaning but I would not consider it worth a hoot for lubrication. The slight amount of residual petroleum left behind after the Kroil dries will probably suffice for short perior low exposure environmental protection but will not afford any lubrication advantage.

I don't have enough experience to base an opinion on concerning BP rifle rounds but have shot a lot of BP in my 45 colt. I also tend to prefer cat bullets in my rifles with smokelss too. As we all know, cleaning is primary and since I shoot corrosive smokeless and BP, water/detergent scrub downs are not uncommon here but are followed with a petroleum solvent cleaning as well. Two reasons I do this, one is to remove that foulding which is not water soluable and to ensure complete removal of any residual water/moisture. I use my own blend of solvent, I also use my own blend of bullet lube too but that's besides the point.

After the solvent cleaning, I run a dry patch or two then follow with an alcohol wetted patch then dry again. This removes any petro residue which can can sometimes cause problems. For long term storage, I protect the bores with "Lubriplate chain and cable fluid" comes in a spray can with a green & silver lable and runs about 8 bucks. This is a lubricating oil with just enough pentrators in it to allow it to get into wire rope and chain rollers. Really high quality stuff and I use it a lot in my business too. It'll get into the actions and work its way onto all parts even if you can get it directly on them. Liberal spray and change positions of the piece to get everything covered. I simply wet a patch and run it down the bore 3 or 4 times to make sure it's all coated.

Now, for short term and or before shooting one that was under long term care, I swab the bore out good with alcohol. Here's where two worlds cross... I work a liberal amount of Ox-Yoke wonder lube 1000+ into a patch and run this down the bore to completely coat it but not enough to leave anything other than a visible sheen behind.

I find this works great on all bores no matter if shooting BP with cast bullets or smokeless with Cu bullets. One particular rifle has always given me leading and Cu fouling problems, after changing to this system, the fouling was reduced by at least 70% across the board and clean up became much easier too.

Odd, but it works for me.

Do think you can have a barrel "too clean" for cast bullet shooting...at least the first few shots, but once even a little leading starts, it tends to accumulate. Ever try to get a soldering job to stick when you haven't cleaned the metal completely?

But I wonder about Kroil being the only cause. Would expect to see from leading in just one shot if the barrel was truely bare unprotected steel. I've used Kroil and not had the problems you had; not to say it can't happen, just that it's not happened to me.


Usually over lube my barrels for storage..to the point where I will nomrally push a patch through before firing to remove the preservative...so I've not left just Kroil in the barrel. (It's Nedw Orleans, and it's very humid all the time...so the extra rust protection0).

Ribbonstone, Very true that clean iron and Kroil can not be the only cause of leading. The surface of the steel can have a lot to do with it too, a/k/a rough bore.

Even if a bore looks to the eye and feels smooth to the patch, it can be rough enough to be abrasive to the bullets be they lead or Cu.

I based my initial reply assuming that all other causes have been eliminated as in rough bore, bullet size, alloy, bullet lube, ect. re-reading Joe's post, I'm wondering if the bores are just a little rough in which case lubing with MMO & grease is enough to fill the voids and smooth things out enough to prevent the leading. After all, lubricant of any kind works on the principal of placing a film thickness barrier between the rubbing parts. In the case of a firarm bore, the lube working between bullet and barrel.

But if a truely clean barrel...stripped to bare steel...the lubricant of the bullet is after the fact...lead hits the steel first, before the lubrication of the bullet. Once a little bit of lead is depeositied on bare steel, it's going to collect more of itself.

Yes...I've noticed that any copper fouling left in the bore will pick up lead like ....like....well, like a politician picks up kick-backs. Just it's abrasive nature I'd guess, but copper does have an attration to lead. IF the copper isn't cleaned out, will often find leading in a barrel that never leaded before.

Same is true of bore conditon...and I shoot some old ones with much less than perfect bores. Don't expect lead free performance, but by occasional 1/2 cleaning (just burshing out the worst of it) can keep them shooting and accurate for a lot of rounds.

Heat can be a factor as well...loads that worked fine when developed in cool months can lead when used in warmer times...havne't found the reverse to be true, but have found accuracy of a warm weather devolped load to suck in cold weather (but haven't found leading).

Balme the Kroil...doens't make much difference what was the casue if you've found a way to cure it.

I hear ya. I tend to shoot a lot of corrosive ammo, don't get a whole lot of shooting time so when I do go, I make the most of it and then pay for it the next two weeks if you know what I mean...

I've come to really like the wonderlube swab before shooting though. Maybe it's just me but the rifles seem to clean up much easier now. I got some surplus 8x57 ammo, I think it came from china, had a thin brass jacket over a thicker steel one and man does this stuff leave junk behind! Groups sucked from the start so I could not tell if they were getting any worse as the day went on or not. After firing 100 rounds of this stuff in one session, I looked down the bore and I swaer it looked like an old piece of brass water pipe that had been in service for 100 years.

Followed the water/detergent scrub with a solvent scrubs every day for a week before I got that bore clean again. Next time I took it out with this ammo, I did the wonder lube swab first. Fire another 100 rounds of the same junk and the bore did not look half as bad, cleaning was one water & one solvent done. Same temps & weather conditions both times, 20F and snow flurries. I know the bore is a little rough on this M48A and I think some of the crapping up is being caused by some blow-by in addition to the poor quality ammo. Similar results with the 91/30 as well.