I'm trying to load some Hornady 40gr V-max bullets for my .223 Rem. The Lee seater die that I have will only seat the bullet to a col of 2.24" To get 1 caliber into the case I need a col of 2.14" What should I do? Is .12 into the case enough or do I need a different brand die? If so which die will work? I dont want to order oanther die and have the same problem.

Thanks
Chris P.

I'm trying to load some Hornady 40gr V-max bullets for my .223 Rem. The Lee seater die that I have will only seat the bullet to a col of 2.24" To get 1 caliber into the case I need a col of 2.14" What should I do? Is .12 into the case enough or do I need a different brand die? If so which die will work? I dont want to order oanther die and have the same problem.

Thanks
Chris P.

What type of action is that .223?...bolt, single shot, semi-auto, pump?

For the ones that don't bive the cartridge a rough fast ride to the chamber, that seating might work. In most shambers, the less the bullet has to "jump" before finding rifling, the better the accuracy.

Semi-autos and other "slam-bang" feeding types may not want to work well with that shallow seating.

My first question is, why do you want to be one caliber into the case? Standard seating depth for this bullet is .128", which is only about half a caliber. Best accuracy is usually with the bullet about .01" to .03" off the lands. Deep seating, you will have to be very careful to work up loads starting an extra 0.6 grains lower than the recommended charges, because the reduced case capacity will increase pressure. My internal ballistics program has a charge of 24.3 grains of H4198 going from 53,000 PSI to almost 57,000 PSI just from the additional seating depth.

Accurate (good concentricity) seating dies will all surround the bullet with their ram to keep it aligned coaxially with the case neck. If you run it down too low, this profile will start mashing into the case neck, hence the built-in limitation. If you are feeling adventurous, I would make an adapter. You will have to give up some alignment accuracy, but you're walking away from the lands anyway, so accuracy may not be your objective. Here's is how you do it: get out an A-max bullet and some Johnson's Paste Wax (old yellow can type) and some epoxy putty. Wax the bullet. Chuck it in your drill press. Put a piece of scrap wood in the drill press vice, and raise the table until the quill of the drill press can just reach the wood with the bullet tip. Mix a small wad of epoxy putty and put it on the wood, then use the drill press feed handle to push the bullet down into it almost to the calicber diameter. Lock the quill in place. Note the measurement on the quill scale.

After the epoxy sets, spin the drill chuck by hand to loosen the glue, and release the quill. Coat the bullet with fresh wax. Coat the inside of the impression in the epoxy with wax using a cotton swab. Mix a little more putty and fill the waxed impression with it. Bring the bullet down again, stopping 1/8" before reaching your previous measurement and lock the quill in place again. Wipe extra putty away all around the bullet. After the epoxy sets, realease the quill. The new epoxy should come up with the bullet. Remove it with your fingers. You now have a spacing shim you can put on each bullet before you seat it. It will add the needed depth.

Nick

To answer those questions. It is a break action single shot H&R Ultra. I thought that the recomended seating depth was 1 caliber. The freebore on thes barrel is about .260" so I cant really get close to the rifling anyway, even with a 55 gr bullet. I'll try them at the length my die will give me and see what happens.

Thanks.

A one diameter seating depth is utopian if circumstances provide for such. It gives good neck tension on the bullet body and assists greatly with bullet/bore alignment.

Unfortunately, it can't be done with a lot of cartridges. Case necks too short, boattails on the bullets that intrude into the case capacity, bullet bearing surfaces too short before the ogive enters the case mouth, etc.

With the top-break single shot, you may be able to seat the bullet out 'til just off the lands if you load the bullet carefully and just as carefully, chamber it. A lot will depend on the extractor being able to engage the extractor groove and the action closing properly. Since you don't have a magazine maximum length problem, you may well be able to use a COAL length a bit longer than normal (loading recommendations are based on magazine fed pump, semi-auto and bolt actions). Single shot shooters have a bit more latitude in COAL's. Just be careful of runout on the bullet and handle with more care before chambering.

[QUOTE=kdub]A one diameter seating depth is utopian if circumstances provide for such. It gives good neck tension on the bullet body and assists greatly with bullet/bore alignment.



Ever take apart military 150gr. .308 or 55gr. .223? With that boat tail, if you measure the amount of bullet bearing area seated into a case, it comes out to considerably less than 1 caliber....and these things ae being slam-fed into lots of full auto weapons.

With that single shot, the seating depth isn't critical for feeding.

Free bore isn't always the kiss of death to accuracy...depends on the diameter of the area it has to jump. The closer to bullet diameter the better...given a large enough hole to wander around in, won't always find center when it strikes rifling.

Have an old .225 Savage that has a tremendus amount of "free bore"...in it's case, being pretty much over sized, can predict bullet accuracy by measureing bearing area...THE LESS "jump" the better the accuracy in this gun's case. The Speer 70gr. and Sierra 63gr. are the jacketed accuracy leaders...are bullet with more bearing are, but not ones that will spin in a 1:14 twist.

Cast bulelts, at .2255" as they fall from the mold, shoot better even with the freebore....being alrger in diameter, they seem to center in the freebore area, and enter the rifling more on center. So..e.ven thoush those cast bullets have to jump farther than the jacketed bullets, by being larger in diameter, they shoot well.


Idea of freebore (at lest the ones made that way by designe and not by accidnet) is that it tends to lower prssure a little bit. By the time the bullet is being aengraved, the volume has increased enough that pressure has fallen a bit, so the peak from engravment is a seperate event.

The old Weatherby rifles were big on this...lots of freebore to lower pressure a bit, sop the powder charge was increased to get pressure back up...the result was close to published ballistics. If you built a rifle without the freebore, would often blow the primers of factory Weatherby loads. In recent years, under differnt leadership, Weatherby has cut that free bore area down...and correspondlingly changed the ammo to be safe.

You made my point, ribbonstone -

Ever compare the accuracy between military rounds and a good handload?

You made my point, ribbonstone -

Ever compare the accuracy between military rounds and a good handload?

Well...not fair...how about a comparison of military ammo with a randomly selected hand load...just open a manual, poke a finger...that would be closer to apples-to-apples.

Point I was making with military ammo is that if it's assembled tightly, even with less than 1 caliber of bullet seated in the case, it won't get bent getting from magazine to chamber in in slam-bang full auto guns.

Truth is, even with lots of load development (including variuous seating depths) the run of the mill military bullet just doen't have the accuracy built into it that good sporting bullets do.

Yep - you're absolutely right! :D

All that military ammo has to go into all sorts of chambers and weapon types. Springfield Armory and Aberdeen Proving Grounds run exhaustive tests on firearms/ammo combinations to derive the most satisfactory results. Heavy, sealed crimps on both bullet and primer are in order for the abuse the cartridge will see.

I was greatly surprised at the small amount of bullet grip on the 149 gr BTFMJ bullets seated in the 7.62x54R case when I pulled them (by the way, have several hundred of these bullets to anyone willing to pay the shipping!) No wonder the M-N's aren't known for great accuracy with military ball ammo!

Anyway, back to apples and oranges - military stuff is OK for casual blasting for civilians. Otherwise assemble the cartridge with care using quality components and enjoy improved accuracy.

Had a chance to take a look at some of my reloading records. Couple of single shot rifles have chambers/leads/throats cut long enough that I'm using 1/2 a caliber of seating depth (or less in one case). Accuracy is good, but then again I've started low and worked these loads up carefully rather than just jumpng on a specific load.

Being single shots, the ammo doesn't see much stress getting from the ammo box to the chamber and I've had no issues with acuracy; iF it's seated straight in a case that is straight and even, it's deleivered to the chamber that way.

For bolt guns will look for a bit more bullet seating...and if I can't have it with a certain bullet, will often move up in bullet weight until I get it.

(OK...not exactly weight...am looking for bearing area...so iot can be the same weight, just without a boat tail to give me more shank to use in seating). IF I'm using the boilt gun as a single shot, can seat a bit short and be happy...but for the lrounds I expect to sit in the mag. and take a beating from recoil, then make the trip to the chamber while I manipulate the bolt rather rapidly, will take a bit more of a "jump".

Semi-autos I go wild with...want a very firm case-bullet juntion (whish may mean using a smaller expander). Crimp is an option..may use one, may not.

I guess the whole topic is kind of irrelevant to me. Never thought about how deep they were seated. Two limits only...how close you can get it to the lands assuming that that's how your rifle likes it, limited only by magazine length. Who cares how far that puts it into the case as long as it stays there....?