Many thanks to Marshall for this terrific website and for the advice a number of you have given me regarding my questions! Actaully, untill recently, I have not been involved in shooting....previously, the last time that that I used a gun it was a M16 and that was 30+ years ago in SE Asia. With work, family, etc, Ididn't have the time to get back into shooting, but now as "empty nesters", I have the "bug". A couple of months ago, I bought a new Marlin .444 and am doing my own reloading...what a great gun! Powerful & accurate and just a joy! I have BTB 280's & 330's on order and am anxious to try. Having got the "bug", I want to expand my inventory to include smaller caliber lever action Marlins. For deer hunting, I'll probably always use the .444, but I would like have a smaller centerfire (I really enjoy reloading) rifle for reloading and shooting fun. I'm impressed with the quality of my Marlin 444 and prefer to stay with Marlin, but I'm open to any advice. I'd really like to have a high velocity, small caliber lever gun, but I don't think that Marlin makes one. Your thoughts....what do you have & like (and why) in something smaller than a .444?

Many thanks,
Dan

...a high velocity, small caliber lever gun, but I don't think that Marlin makes one. Your thoughts....what do you have & like (and why) in something smaller than a .444?

High velocity...small caliber. Not all that specific...but there were some .218Bee modern Marlins, but they are pretty hard to scare up...harder is one of the older .219Zippers, but those two would be about the smallest/higest velocity lever guns.

But I somehow think that's not quite what you were thinking...if I guess right, are thinking 7mm - 30cal. as small. Were some .307's...and given 110-125gr. bullets velocity can be pretty high...less high with most cast bullet loads, but sill stepping right along. But again, will be searching a bit to find one.

There is a lot I don't know, but folks who do are doing some amazing things with leverguns.

Factory loads I'm not sure about, and you're idea of high velocity too.
But if you're willing to rechamber or rebarrel, here are a couple of ideas

256 Winchester on a M92- .25 caliber- 60 gr bullets at about 2800 fps, 75 grs at about 2600 fps, 87 gr at about 2400 fps with 2 1/2" to 3" high at 100 yds & about 13" down at 300 yards.

A 357/44 Bain & Davis on a Marlin should equal a 125 gr .357 magnum bullet at about 2800 fps, and a 160 gr .357 magnum bullet at 2400/2500 fps. Some 30-30s don't get 2500 fps with the 150 gr bullets.

For a rifle cartridge, try a .356 Winchester, with 125 gr bullets at about 3000 fps. Compared to your .444, this is a "small bore" and I hear it turns crows into a ball of feathers that float away on the breeze.....

All this from the leverguns site, and from one or two oldtimers we know.

And folks who know more than I do get terrific results with cast bullets, properly setup. These bullets can equal or exceed what jacketed bullets do. It's not just the Marlin 45-70 that does so well with hardcast lead.. ;)

Those leverguns really are amazing. Sometimes I wonder of these new turnbolt action guns are just a passing fad.... ;)

Dan...

Welcome! You've started with a great rifle and it will serve you well.

You really can't be a Marlin-Nut until you have a 35 Remington and another rifle for you're consideration is a 30-30 Win rechambered to a 30-30 Ackley Improved. Here is a list of calibers that might interest you from the most common to those not so common....

30-30 Win
35 Rem
45-70
450 Marlin
375 Win
218 Bee (1894)
356 Win
32 Win Spl
44 Rem Mag (336 action)
219 Zipper

Many thanks to all for taking the time to provide such comprehensive feedback....I really appreciate it! RD, you're right about being Marlin-Nuts; I'm envisioning the 35 Remington already. Too bad that Marlin doen't make a lever .22-250. The 218 Bee sounds interesting, if I can find one. Also, the .32-20 and .32 H&R look interesting...anyone have experience with these to share? Browning makes a number of small caliber lever guns (.22-250, etc.); any one have any experience with the BLR's?

Guys,
Since my last post, above, I've been reading all the posts on the BLR's and I'm not really impressed with what I read. So, forget the BLR question...I'm going to stick with Marlin and try to follow the RD menu. First, the 35 Rem....then we'll see what follows. By the way, took the day off today and got a chance to shoot my new .444....what a ball! Powerfull & accurate. Did loads from 42.0g to 47.0g of H4198 behind Hornady 265g JFP's...great stuff! Have BTB 280g & 330g on order.

Again, many thanks,
Dan

Dan,
If you want something out of the ordinary, try rechambering a rifle to 7-30 Waters or 7mmSTE.

Jayhawker...

Long time no see... you going to shoot in the match?

Jayhawker...

Long time no see... you going to shoot in the match?

Ranch Dog,
I don't think I'll have time this round. I've been pretty busy with load development and other projects. I might try to get to the range the first of the month, have to see how things work out.

I just got back from 2 weeks in Kansas bowhunting turkey. Didn't see any except while driving on the highway and I didn't think stopping on the side of the interstate to chase birds would endear me to the highway patrolmen (who were out in force the entire time). The wind blew like the dickens the whole time. I had a great time anyway.

RD,
You left out the intresting calibers, like the 25-20, 25-36, 256 Win., 32-20, 32-40, 38-40, 38-55, 38-56, and 44-40. I even found an early model 1894 (1903) with a 26" octagon barrel that someone had made into a 25-20 improved.

Lee L.

RD,
You left out the intresting calibers, like the 25-20, 25-36, 256 Win., 32-20, 32-40, 38-40, 38-55, 38-56, and 44-40. I even found an early model 1894 (1903) with a 26" octagon barrel that someone had made into a 25-20 improved.

Lee L.

With the original posters quailification of a small caliber/high velocity caliber in a Marlin, there really aren't that many choices...does depend on his idea of "small" and "high".

M1894: If you are going to include the .256WCF (which Marlin did offer in the 62) may as well include the .30carbine (which was also chambered in the 62)...probably one of the LESS bought Marlins, but do have to say that as far as .30carbines go, may be amoung the most accurate.

Have to admint, time to time, do consider having a Marlin re-built into a modern .219Zipper...doesn't really do anything other rifles couldn't do better, it's just taht I've wanted one for a good while, and considering the trouble finding a decnt shooting version, is getting to be economically better to just build one rather than hunt down an oldie.

I have a 32-20 and it is fun to shoot. Just loaded up another 50 rounds this a.m. Nice thing about reloading your own, the 32-20, 25-20, and 218 Bee are all based on the 32-20 case. You can buy a thousand cases and it is just a matter of necking them down for the other two cartridges. Of the three the 25-20 was my first and so it holds a special place. Not that fast but you can shoot all day.

Howcome no one mentioned the 357 magnum. It goes from being a decent handgun round to a little tiger in a carbine. It’s not your small caliber, high velocity, but it gets a whole new character in a carbine.

Darrel

Many thanks to all for taking the time to provide such comprehensive feedback....I really appreciate it! RD, you're right about being Marlin-Nuts; I'm envisioning the 35 Remington already. Too bad that Marlin doen't make a lever .22-250. The 218 Bee sounds interesting, if I can find one. Also, the .32-20 and .32 H&R look interesting...anyone have experience with these to share? Browning makes a number of small caliber lever guns (.22-250, etc.); any one have any experience with the BLR's?


Just wanted to let you know that the BLRs are great. I have one in .308 and simply love it. I am a huge levergun guy, I have owned a 444marlin, a 1894PG, sold them both, wish I hadn't. I have a browning BL22 and this BLR. I also have a winchester Black Shadow in 444. All great guns, The BLR and the BL22 just fit me better than any of the others I have had. they would be the last to go if I had to sell all of them.

Ain't "high velocity" but it's more fun than legally possible, i'm talking a levergun in 357 magnum. There's so much potential in this cartridge for the reloader, and you can shoot 38 special all day long, and your shoulder would be none the wiser at the end of the day. I have 2 rifles in 357 mag, and highly recommend you get one. A 1894 Marlin would meets all your needs.

Good to "see" you here Ganjiro! I would think a 35 Rem. would be just about perfect, or the 30/30. But, if you handload the sky's is the limit. Thinking a little more....you may need a break from the 444 and the 357 Mag. would do nicely also as Ganjiro has suggested. A guy needs to have some fun! 38's would fill the bill nicely for practicing your rifle skills.

Somesone forgot to tell me that there was something wrong with my BLR's. For the last 30 years, not knowing any better, I've been shooting 1/2-1 inch groups and killing tons of game with my three. Fastest lever ever made(and handled M88's, Savage 99's and a Finnwolf this morning and have 9 other levers at home). Only have a .223, .257 and .308. Still looking for a 22-250 and .358. Don't like the long action. Heavy, slow and doesn't balance well. For "high" velocity in a Marlin its either an antique .219 Zipper or a custom .256 M94. I believe you will probably have the most fun all around with a .357. Plinking, cowboy games, varmints; handles everything up through deer. Handy, cheap to load, doesn't kick, shoot it lots.

I did not own a Marlin till i got a 35...it's a 1952 RC, now I'm on number five.
336RC in 35
336 CB in 38-55
336 in 30-30
1895GS in 45-70
And I have a model 36 in 32 win spec. on the way.

I'd recommend the thutty thutty, as ammo is abundant, and very easy to reload!

Well, I was at the gun store the other day and, somehow, a .35 Remington followed me home. It's a Marlin 336CS (mfg. 1990), like new condition, and now stands tall on the rack between my 39A and 444S. Really didn't need the .35, but being a MarlinNut...just had to have it.

I have not reloaded .35 Remington and have not even shot the gun, yet. I will probably not use it for hunting, because the 444S won't allow me to (the 444 has a policy that only IT gets to go hunting....which is perfectly fine with me).

Since I will probably will only be using the .35 for "fun" shooting, I was just wondering if anyone would like to share some "pet" loads. I have had GREAT success with BTB cast bullets in my 444S and have been thinking about the BTB 200g FN for the .35 Remington.....

Best regards,
Dan

Dan,
I've never placed much faith in pet loads because each rifle seems to have its own personality, but check out the scoped rifle match. I think I still have second place with the following load: Speer 180gr FP over 39.0gr H4895 and WLR primers. Not bad for a 1957 vintage 336RC, huh?

Jayhawker,
Many thanks and great shooting! I'll let you know how I do....

Dan

Dan,

In regard to our BTB 35 cal 200gFNGC bullet for your .35 Rem Marlin, I'd not suggest that bullet for your rifle, simply because of the shortness of the throat in those rifles, and the long bearing surface forward of the crimp groove on that bullet. In order to shoot that bullet in the Marlin .35 Remington, you'd have to seat that bullet mighty deep.

However, a bullet that seems made to order for those rifles is our BTB .359"-180gWLNGC+P bullet. Originally conceived as a bullet for loading .357 mag equivilent loads in .38 Spcl. brass, this bullet is virtually tailor made for the Marlin 336 chambered in .35 Remington! Accuracy is outstanding with most reasonable loads, and they feed beautifully through the action while delivering some really surprising velocities due to their low friction coefficients.

I hope this helps!


God bless,

Marshall,

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/images/bullets/38-180-WLNGC.jpg (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/details.php?id=36)
BTB WLN+P GC

I was looking for this bullet the other day while working on an order but couldn't find it. Finally, with your post today it dawned on me that it is actually listed under the .38/.357 menu item. You might also want to get it listed under the .35 Caliber (Rifle) with the notes you made above. 35 Remington shooters need a good cast bullet in this length and weight range.

I've had great results with your BTB FN GC but that FN does require the bullet to be seated deep. Accuracy has been outstanding. You indicate that the crimp groove on the WLN+P does work through the Marlin 336 chamber. This would be great and much needed. The increased case capacity of the +P bullet would add 3.5-grains of H4895 which this cartridge really needs!

Marshall,

As always, your wisdom and willingness to take the time to help us is very much appreciated!

Any thoughts regarding powder/load that I could "work up to" with the BTB .359"-180gWLNGC+P bullet? For powder, I currenty have H4198, RL-7 and H335, but can easily obtain any other powder that may be more preferable.

Many thanks,
Dan
P.S. My Marlin 444 loves the BTB 265g, 280g, 290g and 330g (all .432" dia.) bullets!

Dan,

I've had great luck with H335 and AA2230, either of which have given excellent uniformity and accuracy with that bullet. Simply use the jacketed 180g data out there, and work up accordingly. Be advised that you'll clock 100-150 fps faster with the 180WLNGC bullet than the comparable jacketed 180 grain bullets due to a lower friction coeffient of the gas-checked alloy bullet.

Dang, sorry to hear that your Triple Four is so finicky that it will only shoot four bullet weights well! :D :D :D :D :D You just gotta love'm! Mine shoot from 250g pills all the way through the big 405g with almost the same degree of precision with the right load! :p

Fun stuff! Let us know how you make out with the .35 Rem.

God bless,

Dan,

Dang, sorry to hear that your Triple Four is so finicky that it will only shoot four bullet weights well! :D :D :D :D :D You just gotta love'm! Mine shoot from 250g pills all the way through the big 405g with almost the same degree of precision with the right load! :p

Fun stuff! Let us know how you make out with the .35 Rem.

God bless,


405s out of a 444, wow thats amazing.

I don't know what needs so much killing that it requires a 405g out of the .444, but they do shoot well.... can't say it is enjoyable to shoot however!

God bless,

I don't know what needs so much killing that it requires a 405g out of the .444, but they do shoot well.... can't say it is enjoyable to shoot however!

God bless,


I'll bet! To be honest the 270gr Gold Dots and the 300gr XTPs I shot out of my 444 was about all I wanted recoil wise. Those two covered everything I needed, these tiny 'bama bucks are really hard to kill you know. :cool:

Hello to all:

Just a follow-up....

I just received 500 of the BTB 180 WLN+P GC bullets (.359" dia.). Loaded a dummy round last night to see how it would work through my Marlin .35: Case trim = 1.911", crimped it on the crimp groove with a resultant OAL = 2.376".

Tried the dummy round in my 336CS this morning before work, but it wouldn't chamber. As a result of trying to chamber the round, the bullet has a "ring" around it about .115" from the top (crimp) of the case. So, it appears that I'll have to seat the bullet lower in the case and crimp on the ogive. I assume that I can seat the bullet just like I do my 444....seat the bullet so that, when chambered, the bullet fits "snuggly" against the lands? What do you veteren 35Rem guys think?

I think that this is going to be a great bullet for my 35Rem.....great looking bullet, almost a shame that I have to shoot them.

Best regards,
Dan

Dan,

Thanks for the update :) I'll look forward to more data as you develop your loads! Keep us posted.

God bless,

Marshall, many thanks for a great product. Your bullets are really high quality and just a delight to look at and load. I especially like the look of these bullets in the 35Rem case....sleek and a lot of lead showing forward!
Best regards,
Dan

Hello to all:

Just a follow-up....

I just received 500 of the BTB 180 WLN+P GC bullets (.359" dia.). Loaded a dummy round last night to see how it would work through my Marlin .35: Case trim = 1.911", crimped it on the crimp groove with a resultant OAL = 2.376".

Tried the dummy round in my 336CS this morning before work, but it wouldn't chamber. As a result of trying to chamber the round, the bullet has a "ring" around it about .115" from the top (crimp) of the case. So, it appears that I'll have to seat the bullet lower in the case and crimp on the ogive. I assume that I can seat the bullet just like I do my 444....seat the bullet so that, when chambered, the bullet fits "snuggly" against the lands? What do you veteren 35Rem guys think?

I think that this is going to be a great bullet for my 35Rem.....great looking bullet, almost a shame that I have to shoot them.

Best regards,
Dan

Dan, is it a solid ring, or just dimples from the rifling? It should be a series of dimples.....

I just seat them to kiss the rifling, and then crimp wherever it ends up. The Lee FCD is the right tool for the job, if the cannelure doesn't end up where you want. However, just to get to the range, you can gently bump the case mouth into the side of the bullet, won't hurt a thing.

Now... one last important thing... if you are going to lap this gun, do it before you do your load development. I did find after about 20 lapping loads or so, that I could seat the bullets out slightly farther, and this does make a difference.

.35 Rem lapping load, a 148gr. wadcutter, and about 3 grains of Bullseye, works great.

Great minds think alike, just picked up 500 of the bullets myself.

There are 30 carbine and 256 WinMag in the 62 and a 219 Zipper on gunsamerica if you do a search. I think the 62's are $550 and the Zipper is more.

Dan,

Thanks for the kind feedback.... now I'm waiting for a range report from you fine gentlemen and your .35 Remington leverguns :D

Thanks again, and God bless,

Ain't "high velocity" but it's more fun than legally possible, i'm talking a levergun in 357 magnum. There's so much potential in this cartridge for the reloader, and you can shoot 38 special all day long, and your shoulder would be none the wiser at the end of the day. I have 2 rifles in 357 mag, and highly recommend you get one. A 1894 Marlin would meets all your needs.

This is about EXACTLY what I was going to say.. I like the great diversity of loads that can be made up for my Marlin 1894c.

Marshall,

You were looking for a range report....
Well, loaded for my .35Rem with BTB .359"-180gWLNGC+P bullets using H4895. Found the sweet spot at 37.0g of H4895....absolutely dead-on accuracy at both 50 & 100yds! I use a scope (Bushnell Banner 1.5-4.5x32) during load development and consistently put 5 shots in the bull at 50 yds and 4 out of 5 in the bull at 100 yds (Beartooth targets). The bullet makes a great looking cartridge...sleek with a lot of lead showing forward!

Many thanks,
Dan