I just recieved my first order of Beartooth bullets, WFNGC, 280 gr. to load in my >444 Marlin. I'm using 53 grains of RL7 and crimping in the crimp groove. They are too long to even go in the magazine. Would it be better to trim to a shorter lenghth and still crimp in the groove or seat the bullet deeper and crimp past the groove? I'm using the Lee factory crimp die. Also, will this compact the powder too much causing too much preassure? Tis load is posted on loadswap.com with 54 grains and I'm trimming to the length given there but they are still too long. Please help! :confused:

What is the overall length of the finished cartridge?

What is the overall length of the finished cartridge?

2.555 What shoul I do?

2.555 What shoul I do?

A few years ago we had a good off and on discussion about this.
the third link here starts some real talk about it. there are other threads that I dont have bookmarked. Look for posts by Dale McGee.
You did not mention which rifle you are shooting. My Winchester is built different from the Marlins. The Winchester does not have the cutout in the left side of the reciever. Loads that will make the turn from the loading gate and enter the magazine of the Marlin .444 will not do so in the Winchester. You will see more detail on this in the linked threads below. This is not a serious drawback. Just something to be aware of. If you are shooting a Winchester and have overlength cartridges loaded you can open the action bu not far enough to raise the carrier. Load one round in the chamber and lay a second round on the carrier. As you close the action the second round will be pushed into the magazine. You will find that rounds which have too big a melpat to enter the magazine will feed fine from the magazine. This will help you shoot up the ammunition you have loaded.
I have shot many 280 grain LBT bullets in my Winchester with good accuracy. I had to load them short and used the Lee factory crimp die. The powder charges are heavily compressed.
After you read the threads you might search around on the lever gun sections of this Forum. There are several more threads that I remember on this subject that I cannot locate at the moment.

Slim


http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=1850&highlight=310+lee

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=2011&highlight=310+lee

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=1830&highlight=310+lee

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=18403&highlight=310+lee

A few years ago we had a good off and on discussion about this.
the third link here starts some real talk about it. there are other threads that I dont have bookmarked. Look for posts by Dale McGee.
You did not mention which rifle you are shooting. My Winchester is built different from the Marlins. The Winchester does not have the cutout in the left side of the reciever. Loads that will make the turn from the loading gate and enter the magazine of the Marlin .444 will not do so in the Winchester. You will see more detail on this in the linked threads below. This is not a serious drawback. Just something to be aware of. If you are shooting a Winchester and have overlength cartridges loaded you can open the action bu not far enough to raise the carrier. Load one round in the chamber and lay a second round on the carrier. As you close the action the second round will be pushed into the magazine. You will find that rounds which have too big a melpat to enter the magazine will feed fine from the magazine. This will help you shoot up the ammunition you have loaded.
I have shot many 280 grain LBT bullets in my Winchester with good accuracy. I had to load them short and used the Lee factory crimp die. The powder charges are heavily compressed.
After you read the threads you might search around on the lever gun sections of this Forum. There are several more threads that I remember on this subject that I cannot locate at the moment.

Slim


http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=1850&highlight=310+lee

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=2011&highlight=310+lee

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=1830&highlight=310+lee

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=18403&highlight=310+lee


Thank you very much!!! The links were very informative and made me feel a lot better. I have been reloading for several years but this is my first time with the .444. By the way, the rifle is a Marlin 444P. Thanks again.

By the way, the rifle is a Marlin 444P. Thanks again.

Thank you for that information. As you look through the older threads on the .444 that I participated in I asked about COAL lengths for the Marlin rifles. I have also asked about throat lengths. I never recieved much information. Quite a few Winchester shooters commented on the short throats and COAL requirements for the Winchester. I personaly believe the 310 grain cast bullets are the maximum useful bullet weight due to rifling twist, the 265 and 270 bullets really performing well in my rifle. I have shot heavier bullets but my short barrel lost performance with them.

Tell you how my mind works.
If the cartridges are too long for the Marlin, that provides a good excuse for a single shot Ruger in 444 Marlin to prevent wasting that already loaded ammo! :rolleyes:
Jim

First off you are forgetting the 10% rule when working up loads, Always start 10% lower then your target! thats one rule you should always follow, ALWAYS!
With a very wide meplat the COL has to be around 2.525 and forget the crimp groove and buy yourself a Lee Factory Crimp Die and put the bullet were it needs to be..................Marko

03...

I've been shooting the 300-grain WFNCG. Here is what I've learned to do with any new load in the 444. THEY ALL GET SEATED AT 2.5" and I work on them from there. The LFNs seem to be able to move out towards the 2.57" but for the WFNs 2.5" and some change is about it. This works with both my 444P and 444T.

I went to LoadSwap and both loads listed with WFN and RLD7 show an OAL of 2.51" and 2.515". Based on the nose to crimp groove spec on this bullet, the bullet is going to be seated well below the the crimp groove. With the Lee Factory Crimp Die it really doesn't matter.

Slim... nice links to the info. One day it would be really nice to list every topic stored on here about the 444. No doubt about it that there is more 444 stuff here than any other place.

[QUOTE= One day it would be really nice to list every topic stored on here about the 444. No doubt about it that there is more 444 stuff here than any other place.[/QUOTE]

Rd, your sure right. I know nothing about Web pages but I was wondering if there could be a modification to the search feature that would search all boards. The current search feature works but it requires practice to find things quickly.
I believe there is more practicale loading information on the .375 Winchester and the .444 Marlin on this board than any where else. the problem is a lot of the threads are several years old and they are buried deep. The other problem is that only one or two posts in a long thread may be really usefull. Guys like ME get off topic!

Cartridge: 444 Marlin
Bullet Weight: 280 grains
Date: 2001-03-10
Username: powderstuffer
Bullet Type: Cast
Bullet Manufacturer: Beartooth
Nose Profile: WFN
Base: GC
Bullet Dia. .432 grains
BHN: 21
Powder: RL-7
Charge Weight: 56.0 grains
Primer: WLRP
Brass: Remington
Trim Length: 2.205"
C.O.L.: 2.515"
Velocity: 2544 fps
Extreme Spread: 12 fps
Accuracy: 1.5" @ 100 yds
Temperature: 28 degrees F
Pressure: Maximum
Comments:
The C.O.L. of this load is dictated by the bullet ogive engaging the rifling. My listed crimp length is for my gun, where the bullet just engages the rifling and leaves marks on the ogive of the bullet.
This load might be .5 grains over maximum for my gun, an original Micro-Groove 444SS with 22" barrel. This load exhibits moderate pressure in case head expansion and primers are just getting slightly flat. Extraction is slick and easy, but recoil is severe! This load I worked up beginning with data found on the Shooter's Forum. This load may not work in other guns, but I can't think of a better deer load for my .444! This thing just powders concrete cinder blocks!




This info gleaned on Loadswap, and unless I am mistaken, the info is straight from Marshall. It basically states what William and RD have stated. Start over and figure out what your gun handles.

Ditto on the Lee crimp die for the 444. I worked up the load using the length that would fit and crimping above the groove. Lee 310gr WFNGC.