Hi to the forum. A wealth of knowledge here. I have 100lbs of lead alloy weights that was used on trawl nets. They are defintely not pure lead. I am casting for a Sharps rifle and want only a lead-tin mix. Is it possible to remove the other unwanted metals from these weights? Can I just skim off the top layer as the other metals should be lighter than the lead? Thank you for any feedback.
dhj

Nope, doesn't work that way. Once lead is mixed with other stuff its near impossible to put it back to pure lead.

Best bet is to trade it to someone who shoots a hardcast mix for some pure lead or the mix you need. You might get one of Lee's inexpensive hardness testers to see how hard it is. It might be soft enough for you to shoot as is.

Personally I would recommend going to the Shiloh Rifle web site, getting to the forums there and asking if the alloy you have is suitable for that gun. I think it is.

Personally I would recommend going to the Shiloh Rifle web site, getting to the forums there and asking if the alloy you have is suitable for that gun. I think it is.

No real way to get the other metals out of lead at home...could vaporize the mixed metal and then slowly cool the vapor, the various metals will condense out at differnt temperatures, but that's not something you can do at home.

HAve read several post that clime you can "cook" it out (leave it melted at high temperture and they will suposedly seperate)...all that seems to do is promote a thick oxide coating.


It's not a mixture...it's an alloy. Can you just let a glass of salt water sit and have all the salt drop to the bottom? IF theere is an excess of salt, it will percepitate...but there will still be a solution of salt in the water..that's an alloy. A mixture would be like sand and water...let that sit long enough and the sand will drop out as it never chemically mixed with the water.

Lyman:
"...tin and antimony, either as individuals or in combination, litteraly disolve in molten lead to form true, stable solutions. And with the exceptions of oxidation or an electrochemical potential, once the solutioning has occured, there is no force, gravitational or otherwise which can seperate the constituents."

Basically that is telling us that once we put it together, it's beyound the average guy's ability to get them back apart.

If it is steel clips or something like that then yes they will float and can be skimmed off.

If it is a metal that is melted and mixed in then it will not be possible to easily remove it with at home methods.

Michael Grace

Thank you all for your response. I think I will give the alloy a try and see how the rifle likes it. Just target work so the harder bullet won't matter. I cast some 457125 bullets last night out of 20x1 in the new Lyman mould I recently received from Cabelas. I have the same mould that I bought in 1975 but have had accuracy problems with it. The nose measured .440 and the new mould mikes .449. Hope this one shoots better. Again thanks for all your help.
dhj

There are alloying elements, e.g. tin & Antimony, that you can't separate from the lead. But they enhance the alloy's castability & hardness, so why remove them? Just reserve the hard alloys for calibers that like hardness.

There are non-melting elements, e.g. steel clips, that you can skim off once the lead melts.

Then there's nasty stuff like Zinc that may melt and contaminate your lead. It won't cast worth beans, and is really tough to get out of the pot again.

Finally, there's really nasty stuff like lead recovered from batteries. That has sulfuric acid that stays with the lead, is nearly impossible to neutralize, and causes corrosion on 'most everything it touches. It also has calcuim that makes it nearly uncastable.

The moral is, stick with sources of lead you know are good for casting, and know what the alloy contains!!

I've found wheelweights cast excellently! Range scrap is ok, but too soft for high vel rounds, and doesn't cast as well.
50:50 range scrap + wheelweights casts well, and is hard enuf for .45, .38, and target level .44 loads.

Ribbonstone,

WOW... Lyman has actually, finally(!) admitted that they were wrong in their older publications! When I started casting in the early '70s Lyman was convinced (and I believed them as a young innocent fledgling caster) that since Sn is lighter than Pb, Sn would float to the top of one's melt and therefore one needed to flux and flux until blue in the face if he wanted to cast good bullets. For years after finding out this was bunk (basically through fluxing only to remove dirt and grease) I contested Lyman's claim and neophyte casters though I was full of bull. Just goes to show how erroneous myths can be perpetuated because "authorities" who think they know everything can produce only the answer they pulled out of their *** :) Fortunately for new casters, many of the bugs have been worked out of this wonderful hobby due to trial and error on the part of those dedicated old timers seeking the truth.

Oh yeah... here's another historic blunder on the part of Lyman. Perhaps Lyman was trying to please the EPA, or Ralph Nader or some such other idiot bureaucracy circa 1980, but I managed to save my pennies and purchase a brand new Lyman furnace for the then exorbitant sum of 120 skins. I thought this was the top of the line dipper furnace at the time and found out much later (after purchasing a good thermometer) that it wasn't capable of reaching even 800F. So there I was following Lyman's instructions to the letter adding solder to my melt by the pound, fluxing like mad to keep my tin from floating away, my brand new expensive furnace maxed out to what I thought at the time must have been 1000F, pouring as fast as I possibly could with the biggest ladle I could find (made by RCBS) and my darn bullets still wouldn't fill out the moulds! Lyman you owe me big time... a lesser man would have started making arrows :) At least I had the guts to tear into the thing and rig it up so I could get another 90F out of it. I still have the darn thing and it has worked great for decades but I should have unloaded it 20 years ago and bought an RCBS Pro-Melt (which I still lust after).

TMC

P.S... Geeze! You can't even say around here? Boy, too bad the rest of the internet doesn't take a lesson from this "G" rated site. Don't get me wrong though... it's refreshing! Next time I'll substitute donkey, for *** :)

Edit: No, you can't! :p The auto-censor keeps up pretty well, and we clean up what's left.

I thought this was the top of the line dipper furnace at the time and found out much later (after purchasing a good thermometer) that it wasn't capable of reaching even 800F. At least I had the guts to tear into the thing and rig it up so I could get another 90F out of it. I still have the darn thing and it has worked great for decades but I should have unloaded it 20 years ago and bought an RCBS Pro-Melt (which I still lust after).I have a Lyman Mag 20 bottom pour. It is a real workhorse and has never given me any problems that I didn't create myself. I just wish Lyman would use temperature designations (degrees F) on the heat adjustment knob rather than the 1-10 scale. The way it is, buying a good thermometer becomes a MUST. On the later model furnaces, there is a thermostate adjustment screw located under the heat adjustment knob. Access is by pulling off the knob. Turning the screw counter-clockwise increases the heating duration. I have been outbid numerous times for a used Pro-Melt on ebay but I am still trying. Why do I need a second furnace? I dunno, maybe because it is just there.

There are some impurities you can get out, at least partially, but increasing temeprature is NOT the way to do it. The hotter the lead, the MORE of these impurities it can hold...have to go the other way and decrease the temperatue.

IDea is tha the higher the temperature, the MORE of an impurity the lead can hold...just like heating water will allow more salt to be added than a normal saturated solution. Can't get it OUT, but can reduce the amount to the least amount the alloy can hold. Won't take out the stuff in true solution, but will take out some of the oddeer impurites if they are present.

Need a lead thermometer. But if you run a melt to about 750-775 degrees, flux and skim it, then REDUSE the temp. to 621-625degrees, will find some WW alloys will forma a thick layer of dross. DO NOT FLUX THIS BACK IN. Skim it, dump it, and SEAL the can it's dumped in.

IF there is any copper in the alloy (from some babbitt alloys), this will reduce it to about .1 - .2% and you can live with that amount. Will aslo take out soime (not much) of the Calcium and Strontium tha may have found it way in from melting down modern maintance-free car batteries.

For goodness sake, do this OUTSIDE with a good strong wind at your back (or create a wind with a fan) as some of the stuff can procduce gas when it contacts water (humidity) you DO NOT want to breath or ingest. Understand, it's the dross from these contamiants that is the culprit here....one of them is Stibine (SbH3) which has been used as a fumigant.

IF you've got Zinc in the alloy, are pretty well screwed for good casting. Not toxic, but it does odd things to the surface tenstion and ability of the melt to fill out the fine details of the mold.

Are lots of other impurities that can find their way into WW's or other "mystery metal", and once in soultion cannnot get them out...but can get out some of the odder ones by the above method. IF it won't cast after the above, it just won't cast.

Marshal Kane,

I must have gotten one of the early Mag20 Dippers (orange paint job) because I had to disassemble mine and use a bench grinder on a small part that restricted the heat control knob's rotation. it has worked great ever since.

Nevertheless, I just broke down and bought a Pro-Melt from Midway at what I thought was a good price... $247 + shipping. If I've got another 20 good casting years left in me, then I'd say it was a bargain.

TMC

My suggestion would be to use the wheel weight metal, without concern. Metals in the alloy will do no harm. By adding pure lead, you may elect to soften the bullet metal. Some tin could be added, but would not be essential.

Many people cast bullets with unmodified wheel weight materials. Salvaging wheel weights from garages and tire shops is a terrific way to acquire free or low cost metal for bullet casting.

Bob

Marshal Kane,
I must have gotten one of the early Mag20 Dippers (orange paint job) because I had to disassemble mine and use a bench grinder on a small part that restricted the heat control knob's rotation. Nevertheless, I just broke down and bought a Pro-Melt from Midway . If I've got another 20 good casting years left in me, then I'd say it was a bargain.TMCI have an orange Mag20 bottom pour. Must be about the same age as yours. I am running it at 9.5 on a heat control knob max'd at 10. This puts the alloy (according to my lead thermometer) at about 750F. I believe Lyman sets the heat not to exceed 800F. I think it's a little silly to install a 10 position heat control knob when the only useable position occurs at the high end. I know you'll enjoy your new Pro-Melt and it will serve you well into those 20 good casting years, in fact, the Rifleman tested it years ago and gave it a high rating. I may as well order one too as I keep getting outbid on ebay and every year the price goes up :rolleyes:

I was lucky enough to get a used ProMelt on ebay a couple of years ago at a low price. Thing didn't work so I sent it to RCBS and they repaired it...FREE! Cost me shipping one way. I mainly use it presently to melt down larger amounts of lead to put into ingot form. My main melter is an old Lee Production Pot as it is a little more convenient to use altho it won't hold nearly as much alloy. Emery