Was I dreaming or did I see where CA passed a law requiring all bullets to have a serial number. I just got a glimpes of sometning about it on the ticker :confused:
If this is true my comment is "Stupid is as stupid does".

They will stop at nothing to try and get our guns and make selfdefense illegal!!! :mad:

In the land of fruits and nuts, Kalipornia does try to be on the cutting edge of lunacy.

As of last night it was not passed, but passed the senate in CA only. CA state law.


By James P. Sweeney
COPLEY NEWS SERVICE
6:23 p.m. June 2, 2005

SACRAMENTO – A novel proposal to etch identifying serial numbers on all handgun ammunition sold in California narrowly passed the Senate Thursday, although supporters conceded the legislation remains a work in progress.

The measure, Senate Bill 357, passed on a bare-majority, 21-14 vote that split largely along party lines, with Democrats in support. The vote sent the bill to the Assembly, which has long been the decisive battleground for gun-control initiatives.

A related measure, to require manufacturers to equip some semi-automatic handguns with components that would microstamp an identifying code on spent cartridges, cleared the Assembly on a 41-38 vote. It now moves to the Senate.

The Senate measure is sponsored by Attorney General Bill Lockyer, but so far has drawn only tepid support from the balance of the state's law enforcement community. It would link purchasers to handgun ammunition through an electronic swipe of a driver's license at the point of sale.

Manufacturers say the proposal would force drastic changes to a high-volume, low-margin business. The required modifications to the manufacturing process, the companies warned, would either drive them out of business or send consumer prices skyward.

Sen. Joseph Dunn, a Garden Grove Democrat who introduced the bill for Lockyer, said he is working with law enforcement groups to resolve concerns about how to treat a massive existing inventory, possession of unmarked ammunition in homes and an exemption sought for shooting ranges.

Sen Bill Morrow, R-Oceanside, illustrated the magnitude of the potential ammunition stockpile already in the state. He has used perhaps only half of a substantial supply his father left when he died in 1981, Morrow said.

"If I plan right, I figure it will get me through the rest of my life," Morrow said.

Morrow and other opponents questioned whether the proposal, which has never been attempted anywhere else, was technologically feasible. But aides to Lockyer have pointed out that manufacturers place individual serial numbers on many different consumer products.

The Assembly bill, AB 352 by Assemblyman Paul Koretz, D-West Hollywood, would apply only to future production of easily concealable semi-automatic handguns that have not passed a state safety test.

:( Who-da thunk it?

This is an article from signonsandiego.com

I don't know of anything that would preclude a manufacturer from marking their bullets with a serial number or even a box and lot number on the bullet as those are already on the boxes, but this would easily add costs to the sale at the point of sale just for tracking the sale of ammunition and bullets let alone the additional cost to put the numbers on in the first place. The thing I do not like is the potential for those costs to be passed on to those of us who enjoy shooting sports. This will also cost more for the government to administer therefore requiring more money from the taxpayer. Can you say "bullet tax"?

The only people able to dodge this tax would be those who belonged to an exempt gun club (the example from the article) and I know we all can afford the dues to a gun club with enough clout to get an exemption from a tax like this would be. It is inspiring! Tax those who do not have the money to buy the political clout necessary to stop these idiotic kinds of laws!

Idiots in our legislatures are supposed to work for us but never seem to. It seems that they are listening to a very small slice of the people who are willing to pay for their laws with cash. Wish I could fire them all. Start with the Stevens family, get Ted outta DC and then toss his fool for a son out of Juneau. Ben is too stupid to even work for me as a student worker...

:( Time to get off the soap box!

Oh well, we return you to your regularly scheduled programming. The fish are in big time in Ship Creek here in downtown and down south too! wahoo!

Ya know, i think the gun makers should just stop trying to adapt the laws of those wack jobs and stop selling guns to people in california. This is just becoming asinine, why should the rest of the country and the world have to put up with higher prices of guns and ammo because california said so? what a bunch of bull. and what about the people that cast their own ammo? what about small(er) businesses like bear tooth? I'm sure Marshall isn't going to sit around and stamp everyone of his bullets.

Ya know, i think the gun makers should just stop trying to adapt the laws of those wack jobs and stop selling guns to people in california. This is just becoming asinine, why should the rest of the country and the world have to put up with higher prices of guns and ammo because california said so? what a bunch of bull. and what about the people that cast their own ammo? what about small(er) businesses like bear tooth? I'm sure Marshall isn't going to sit around and stamp everyone of his bullets.

That's exactly what they want...

That's exactly what they want...
Yes indeed, that would give them leverage to install the same rules accross the country.
The annual production of .22 ammo is in excess of 2 BILLION rnd/yr. Someone will have a steady job stamping all of them.
My moring started with that piece of news, I said @#%%.
Another reason I am moving to Idaho.

Gun and Ammunition manufactures could just embargo any shipments to any Kalifornia State or local law enforcemrnt organizations in that state. Also no arms or ammunition to any body guards working in Kalifornia. Could get intresting.

Lee L.

Yea! Ain't none of us pro gun folks been to "monkey school"???? Put the Monkey on there back for a change. I like it!!!!!

Years ago the dealers had to keep a record of all ammo sales, including components. If I needed a pack of 100 magnum primers, the dealer required id and wrote down the info for permanent record. I dont think that had much effect on crime. The criminals are not going to be effected by this nonsense and will probably start a Prohibition type situation with stolen ammo. On top of that, the recordkeeping would be astronomical. That money could be put to better use.

The words "Black market" come to mind. I guess the cops in CA will have to check your bullet serial #s now!!! :confused:

Wouldn't Ahhhhnold have to sign it into law? We can only hope he is filling his veto pen with ink. If it is vetoed and goes back to the CA senate and passes it might be a wake-up call to the idiots that voted those fools into office to begin with.

Regarding an ammo embargo on CA. They should start with the police departments.

How about putting the number on the very tip of the bullet? Particularly frangible bullets!

Aren't they already stamping newborn kids with upc's on the bottom of their feet?

Gun and Ammunition manufactures could just embargo any shipments to any Kalifornia State or local law enforcemrnt organizations in that state. Also no arms or ammunition to any body guards working in Kalifornia. Could get intresting.

Lee L.


Thats what i was talking about! That would make them change their tune.

Gun and Ammunition manufactures could just embargo any shipments to any Kalifornia State or local law enforcemrnt organizations in that state. Also no arms or ammunition to any body guards working in Kalifornia. Could get intresting.

Well, in all reality, that's exactly what will happen -- not because the manufacturers want to prove a point, because that will be the only way to do business. Bullet manufacturers don't currently have the ability to do this serial number thing. Therefore, they won't be able to ship their products to California. Eventually, some outfit will decide it's worth producing serialized bullets, but the cost will be astronomical, partly because of the new equipment and partly because the quantities will be limited to what California can use. Shooters in California will pay the price, and I doubt they will feel like they voted for this.

Meanwhile, folks in California will be driving across the border to buy their bullets out of state. I wonder how that will be enforced.

"Meanwhile, folks in California will be driving across the border to buy their bullets out of state. I wonder how that will be enforced."


Thats a good point, are they going to disassemble every bullet to look for a little #?

What really drives me nuts is our tax $ are being spent on the salaries of these idiots. Although maybe we're the dummies for paying them to provide this kind of legislation.

and I thought it was bad here in Aussie!

What really drives me nuts is our tax $ are being spent on the salaries of these idiots. Although maybe we're the dummies for paying them to provide this kind of legislation.

No, not for paying them, but for voting for them. And it isn't just CA. It's the nation as a whole.

Oh well. Not getting on that soap box...

From an economic standpoint alone I can't see it happening. The manufactutrers could do it but they would have to recoup the costs. The first one to do it and charge me for it loses my business and everyone I know or can reach will hear of it so that multiplied by people like the ones here... consumer revolt? The CEO who makes the move loses their job, the other manufacturers look at each other and scrap plans. This might not happen quickly though. Might take a couple years. 4 quarters of falling profits to look at and projections that they will continue to fall and all that. I figure I will keep buying two boxes when I only need one for now. That way I might have enough to ride out a year of stupidity.

That and I am ready to write to any manufacturer if this bill passes to tell them what I think as a consumer.

Yep - economic boycott. Plus, stock up on components beforehand and assure an ample supply of reloading stuff to ride out the duration of the boycott. Not hard to do.

In ND we don't have the problem yet but what starts elsewhere seems to end up here. Just to the east of in Minnesota it seems they like to follow Kalifornia too closely. That too close for me. Just sitting here counting my blessings that I have enough reload stuff to last my lifetime. We have enough of our own political crazies. All we can do is not buy into this big pile of H*******T.

I agree, and the gun shops on nevada and Utah borders will definitely benefit from the sheer stupidity exhibited from the ca legislature.

basically, they will be taking real jobs out of california and disarming their law-abiding citizens and also preventing commerce into their state as well as the tax revenue and the shipping industry and then count all the business that moves across the border and the ones who will no longer do business in Ca I figure it will cost the state about between 10 and 75 mil the first year and bigger after each year. Businesses will fold and people will be out of work over it for sure.

I agree, and the gun shops on nevada and Utah borders will definitely benefit from the sheer stupidity exhibited from the ca legislature.
Hey, don't forget Arizona, we could use the money!

What I'm wondering is, at what point would they check serial #s? When you buy it? And if so, how well would a stamped bullet's serial # even read after it's been fired? Between engraving from the rifling, pressure against the base, and deformation at the tip, this doesn't make sense. What would make more sense would be serializing the brass, but since the bullet is a separate component, how would anybody know which brass it was fired from? You'd have to key it to the firearm itself, which is already being done, which makes this whole thing the most asinine waste of money ever concocted, even by Commierfornica's standards!

Okay, off my soapbox now...

Just mold your own or go to Nevada, Oregon, or Arizona to get the components or ammunition. It's still legal to sell ammo to anyone in any state except Kalifornia.

This whole notion is so preposterous even Hollyweird would dismiss it as horsehockey, which just goes to show how idiotic these lawmakers are. Any elected official who backs this stupidity should be subject to recall for Felony Stupid, because a third-grader could tell this idea is totally impossible. It's just one more way for Kommiefornia morons to foist their stupidity onto the rest of the world, and I think AHHHHnold needs to either tell these a-holes to knock it off, or he will start calling for recall elections for those who are trying to subvert the state and Federal constitutions. This crap of writing laws against inanimate objects is horsepucky, and everyone knows it, except the stooges who keep doing it, and the cronies they're in bed with.

Start punishing CRIMINALS for their CRIMINAL behavior, and leave the rest of us alone. Felons can't legally vote, yet these idiots pander to them like they were sitting judges. As one right-thinking man said years ago, "We already have laws against murder and assault. The means used are totally inconsequential. There is no need for laws against guns, bullets, knives or frozen sausages. Criminal behavior is just that, no matter what tools are used, from a gallon of gasoline to a train. Enforce the basic laws, and there is no need for all the rest."

Makes sense to me!

PJ