View Full Version : .38 Spec. Short Barrel Loads?
naumann
06-04-2005, 07:42 AM
Is there a powder, or two, that is preferred for loads to be fired in 4", 3", or 2" bbls.? I am thinking in terms of the ratio of velocity to muzzle blast in the shorter barrels.
Speer manufactures ammo designed to work well in shorter barrels. I am looking to approximate that type of load. My revolvers are S&W K-frames (no J's at this time). I am NOT interested in maximum velocity.
Appreciate any experience you can share in this regard.
Marshal Kane
06-04-2005, 08:22 AM
For velocities under 1000 fps, any of the faster burning powders are suitable for standard (not +P) loads in the .38 Special. Recommend trying Alliant Bullseye, W231, 700X, AA#2, Hodgdon Universal, etc. I currently use 2.7 grs. of Alliant Bullseye with the 148 gr. Remington hollow based wadcutter and 5.0 gr. of Alliant Unique with the 158 gr. cast lead semi-wadcutter in my 4" S&W Combat Masterpiece. The hollow based wadcutter load is very accurate and easy on recoil. Not much one can do about muzzle blast in the shorter barrels except temper it with light, target loads. Hope this helps.
ribbonstone
06-04-2005, 08:38 AM
HAve hunted the information in the past...think what you are asking about are powders specifically made to reduce flash. There was a lot of gov. research into this as early as WWI for big guns (esp. naval guns). Got some form of worakable flashless ammo for the big guns in WWII and were some 20mm and 30mm flashless ammo being used in Vietnam.
Are additives that will kill the flash...do all sorts of other things to complicate the loading process as well, make the smoke/gas ejected a bit more noticable ( it it reportably isntthe best stuff to breath).
So far as I know, no commercial powder is specificly designed to reduce muzzle flash...not that they dont exist.
Our best bet is to play in the fast end of the powder burn chart. Pressure and temperature are pretty much the same thing for the micro seconds of powder burn. Low muzzle pressure seems to be a help (not peak pressure, the pressure at the muzzle when the bullet uncorks).
Will still be a visible flash, but not one blinding to the shooter.
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Eyes are funny...we tend to blink and are behind the muzzle. Best cheap test has been in a dead dark area, camera on "bulb", camera in front of the muzzle pointed back at the shooter (but not in line or you'll replace a lot of cameras).
Or a good long lense set up to refelct back from a mirror placed down range...same deal, if not set up carefully, will buy a lot of mirrors.
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Wanted to add. A totally flashless gun is proably in the same realm as a toatally silent silencer...not really going to happen so long as you are burning something to move the projectile.
naumann
06-04-2005, 07:11 PM
Thanks for replies.
I am less worried about muzzle flash, and more interested in efficiency (velocity/bbl length).
I have Unique and Bullseye on hand. Also have cheap 158n gr. RN lead bullets, Speer 148 gr. HBWC, Speer 140 gr. HP/XTP, and Speer 158 gr. HP/XTP.
Today I picked up a used, but nice, S&W Mdl. 10 2". Guess I'll just start experimenting with what I have. Eventually I want to try TiteGroup, too.
ribbonstone
06-04-2005, 08:29 PM
Will proably find them higest energy with heaiver bullets...those 158's would be a good choice...lead earnign a bit more speed than jacketed, but the RNL format is pretty poor at transmitting that energy.
(Justa s an aside...those 158RNL bulelts can shoot well,,,they are not inaccurate bullets, just that they tend to slip through whatever they hit rather than tearing it up a bit along the way).
Unique is a bit more "flashy" than Bullseye..gives better velocity and energy when run at the same pressure as faster powder, but you specifically wanted to get away from muzzle flash. Bullseye does tend to be a bit smokey and sooty, but it's of little importance if you clean the gun evey so often...it's not as filthy as some other powders and it is economical as the charge weights are so low.
Have taken the 148gr. wad cutters (not the hollow based versions please) up to the Lyman lkisted max...truthfully, from some test with varios impact media, can't see much benefit driving them much past 800fps. That speed is easily in the realm from 2" barrels and bullseye.
tanker
06-05-2005, 08:35 PM
I have been using some of the round nose bullets made for CAS and they have a flat point. Sounds contradictory but thats what they call them, RNFP, Round Nose Flat Point. They seem to transfer energy much better than a full Round Nose. They are made for use in tube feed leveractions. As far as muzzle flash and blast I've found that that loads that use the smallest amounts of powders produce the least flash and blast which only makes sense. Generally ball type powders seem to produce more flash than flake or extruded. For plinking and target loads use fast powders in small charges, for max loads use the same powders you would use in longer barrels. H-110 and 2400 may leave some unburned powder in the barrel but they still produce the highest velocities. Bluedot seems to be a good compromise powder for heavy loads in 3-4 in. barrels and not too much flash.
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