I'm confused. I was under the distinct impression that I could size nickel plated cases with my lee dies. However, the neck expander didn't stand up to the task at all.

I just bought the dies, and I started sizing new nickel plated cases. In all, I did 70 of them. They were well lubed (in my opinion), including the mouth. I bought the dies at a gun show, and they were kind of dirty, so when flakes of stuff came out clinging to the mouths of the cases, I thought that was just dirt coming out. However, I started to worry when the amount of dirt didn't diminish after several cases. So I took the die apart and cleaned it (which I should have done in the first place), and noticed a lot of scratches around the neck expander. I put it back together and continued sizing, and the same thing continued. At this point, I hoped that the flakes were nickel coming off of the case.

When I finished, I went to trim the cases using Lee's trim length guage, and I started with the cases I had finished last. It wouldn't fit into the mouth of the case. Not even close, and it wasn't just one or two cases. However, the cases at the beginning of the batch fit just fine. I took the die apart again, and the scratches were much more severe than they had been the last time. The diameter of the neck expander now measures .216 with my caliper; I don't know what the original size was.

The attached picture shows the decapper for the 223 below and the decapper from my 7mm die above for comparison. The 7mm die has sized plenty of brass, including some nickel.

So is it possible that I got a bad die, or am I doing something wrong?

Nickel brass is often rough on the inside of the neck and unfired brass will be the worst. I have to lube the inside of the necks of one lot of .30-06 I have or the expander stem of my Hornady resizer pulls out. Need a bigger wrench for tightening it.

Checking some .222 Remington expanders shows that a Hornady mics .223 and a CH-4D and an RCBS go about a half thou less, about .2225". I'd say your expander wasn't hardened properly, you've got the world's worst batch of nickel plated brass, or both. Send the die to Lee and see what they say.

Bye
Jack

Lee is very good about fixing their products. I can't help you with the nickle question as everything I use is Brass.

It sure sounds like the expander was soft. I think some folks make dies with carbide expanders for rifle cases, you might check on them if you keep having problems with the nickle cases. You might also tumble your cases a little longer before resizing that might help.

Uncruel...

I found this on Lee's web site FAQ's (http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi)...

Nickel plated brass
Nickel plated brass typically has a rough edge or burr around the inside of the case mouth, which will score the expander plug severely if this burr is not removed. Our Chamfer tool (catalog #90109) works well for removing the rough edge and it is important to do so before the sizing operation.

It sounds like you will need to call Lee for a replacement part.

Here's a Hornady .30-06 decapper, after sizing 50 unfired nickel cases, which were not chamfered first, plus resizing them twice more, plus several hundred brass cases. It measures a bit under .307", say .3068". The cases were lubed with Hornady One-Shot the first two times, and with Smiling Mink the third time. I didn't have the decapper pull out the first two time, since the One-Shot spray lube gets into the neck. Lubing the inside of the necks with Smiling Mink greatly reduced the force needed to withdraw the decapper.

Bye
Jack

Thanks for the help, guys! I have two new decappers on order with Lee now. I shall chamfer the inside of the case mouths and size them again. If that damages the expander again, I shall get rid of the pretty nickel.

My theory is it's like owning two chain saws you are going to have troubles. I have always preached far and wide about not using nickle plated brass. Just another problem with it. Mind you I have reloaded thousands of nickle .357 brass with little or no problem but then I do chamfer all my brass. Nowadays I don't reload any plated brass, people give it to me I toss it. One less thing in my life that can cause stress.

I use a lot of nickle plated brass and haven't had any problems with it. I do chamfer the necks as a part of the process, although the last batch of new 30-06 (50 of them) I didn't. I didn't have any problems when I full length sized them, and didn't notice anything unusual when checking their lengths. My 30-06 dies are RCBS, but I have Lee dies for other callibers and haven't had any issues with those either.

I would tend to think you got a soft (read "defective") expander, given the quality I have experienced with my Lee dies. Anything mass produced (or even human produced, for that matter) will have the occasional bad instance, or even batch for that matter. Most companies today (as in nearly all) are pretty good about admitting and fixing their mistakes, once they find out about them.

In either case, it would be foolish to throw it all away based on a single sample. Check the brass for roughness on the inside of the neck. Try again with a new expander. Give everything the benefit of the doubt, and check everything carefully.

If it turns out that Lee dies just can't handle nickle brass, I'm very interested since I have several sets...

I've never had problems expanding nickel-plated brass, but I use either an "M" expander (Lyman) or make my own from oil-harded drill rod, and both are harder than the hinges of hades.

Bet the expander in that Lee set did not get heat-treated.

Well, I got my replacement decapper/expander rod. Chamfered the brass and sized it again. When I was finished, I took the thing back out, and it was scratched up again, but this time I couldn't measure any decrease in diameter. The size seems right this time, as the case trim length guage fits properly.

I guess I'll try chamfering and sizing the remaining 30 pieces of brass that I did not size the first time. I'm still not sure what to think.

UnCruel, though them expanders after hardening should be harder than woodpecker lips, one thing will remain a constant that brass is nickle plated and nowadays all that means is "chrome" there is no way I know of to make chrome soft. That being said when we make a hardened steel alloy it is by adding chrome to it by percentage oil hardened steel in 06 grade is 12% which is the same as D2 airhardened steel. These two are considered to be the best to use for cutting edges. I do not know how much chrome is used in the plating process for fire arms cartridge cases but I would guess that it is more percentage wise. Might just be you got a batch of brass that someone plated with the wrong formula ie too much chrome added to the nickle. If that is the problem here then I would say to watch your cases real closely for splitting after very few firings. If it continues to abrade your sizer switch to a different brass. Then if it continues have the expander checked for hardness pick and area and see if a file will cut it easily, if so no hardness. Being in the tool & die trade for these many years I understand manufacturing and mass production, to get two expanders that are soft in the same cal would be they sent them to be heat treated maybe 2000 at a time.

I stay away from "nickel" plated brass after having them ruin a new steel .357 Magnum die. I expected nickel would be gentler on rifle dies since most of them are bottle necked and not straight walled cases. I would suggest switching back to unplated brass.

It may not be the nickel cases. I have a lot of Lee dies includng a set for 30-06. Loaded quite a bit of ammo with them but one day the expander started pulling the heads off the cases. I thought it might be the cases but it did the same thing with a number of different brands. I clean and lube the inside of the case mouth and even added an excessive amount with the same results. The expander looked ok and was the correct diameter. I chucked it in a drill and gave it a good polish but that didnt help. Took the expander out of another set and it worked correctly. Cant explain the problem but maybe just get another expander and try it.

The nickel tends to cause that to happen. I had the same problem, but it took a long time and a lot of shells before it surfaced. I still have a few nickel cases however, have switched them out or tossed them after shooting since. All the new stuff will go brass. I do still like the military shell casings, especially the 70 and 80 series due to the thick cases and uniformity of size and weight but no more nickel. Have had all the problems listed above at list once and, will shoot them up this time and toss them. The only ones I keep around are the straight walled pistol and they will soon be tossed as well. Good read!!!

with my old dies but since i bought the lee carbide speed die set i've had much better luck with em...... a guy can make a mess out of cases really fast with standard dies..... get some carbide inserted resizers an you'll not be sorry.....



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