Howdy,

Picked up a "new" rifle in a metric caliber, and am having a few questions pop up as I get ready to work with it. The rifle is a 1950s vintage SAKO FN Mauser in caliber 8x60. Now it is supposedly an 8x60S (.323 bullet) which makes sense considering its late manufacture. Markings on the barrel saw 8x60, and by the late 1940s the old J bore version was dead, however, the rifle does not want to chamber my test dummy load cartridges at all. The rifle chambers an empty sized case just fine, and will chamber old DWM and RWS factory cartridges as well, although H-Mantles chamber hard. So I am wondering, could I have a J bore (0.318) barrel, or merely a short chamber. Any thoughts, ideas, experience with the 8x60????

Larry

Congrats to a nice rifle! :)

I have got one, and indeed these Sakos are 8mmI - .318" instead of S-bore .323", as one could expect by post-WWII rifles.

I used RCBS 8x60S dies, but I changed the calibration rod to a rod for 8x57I/.318". RWS and Sellier&Bellot make .318" bullets, as does Woodleigh too.

Regards,

Old Shatterhand

Thanks for you feedback Old Shatterhand. We did a chamber/bore cast yesterday afternoon and confirmed the .318 bore. Why in heavens name anyone would have made a .318 bore in the 1950s makes no sense, not when the .323 was then "standard"???? Anyway, I have 75 old 196 grain Norma .318s, and have discovered the Woodleigh bullets too. Guess I have enough rounds for normal deer hunting anyway. Now I am looking for more 0.318 slugs!!!!!!!!!
Thanks,

Larry

Stubbon.... if you think shooters over here are entrenched in the past, try Germans!

No disrespect to people of German ancestry... there's a few in my family's woodpile, also.... but my most difficult tech suppport customers, by ethnic group, are Germans.... second place isn't even close!

Thanks for you feedback Old Shatterhand. We did a chamber/bore cast yesterday afternoon and confirmed the .318 bore. Why in heavens name anyone would have made a .318 bore in the 1950s makes no sense, not when the .323 was then "standard"???? Anyway, I have 75 old 196 grain Norma .318s, and have discovered the Woodleigh bullets too. Guess I have enough rounds for normal deer hunting anyway. Now I am looking for more 0.318 slugs!!!!!!!!!
Thanks,

Larry

Take care of those cases, as there are not any made longer. Albeit you can use .30-06 cases, correctly stamped original cases are always best and safest.

When I bougt my Sako 8x60, I supposed that it was a S-bore, as it was a post WWII rifle. But I was told that the Germans had left an immense amount of 8x60I cartridges in Finland after the war, and because of that, the Finnish made the Sakos in this excentric obsolete caliber. Whether the story is true or not, is beyond my knowledge. In any case, the rifles are pretty good shooters.

I sold the action and the barrel, but kept the walnut stock. Instead I got a similar Sako in .30-06 with birch stock. The action and the barrel are going to be put in the former stock.
http://forum.robsoft.nu/album_pic.php?pic_id=429

Regards,

O.S.

Rumor has it that Mag-Tech is going to slowly be bringing many of these long obsolete cases back to life over time....one can only hope.

FYI for MikeG, us krauts may be stubborn but when see the quality put into their products, it's hard to argue the politeness factor. I was simply amazed at the extremely tight tolerances and superior quality and craftsmanship those old kraut buggers put into not only their small arms but the big artillary guns as well. Even their "blank only" saluting cannons had superior quality work on them....just imagine now if you owned a kraut made mauser lever gun and put it along side one of your current ones...apples to apples comparrison? :)

It seems to me that I heard the 8x60 was some kind of legal thing after WWII. Cant remenber the exact reason but had to do with military cartridges. They made the case a little longer and looks like a 318 bore.

Did a little research on the 8x60. It was after WWI not WWII. The Allies declared civilians were not allowed to own military calibers in 1919.

Right, the illegal aspect was post WWI, and illegal for .323 bore rifles, good ole Versailles trying to make the world safe, but Hitler and company abrogated the .323 rule by the early 1930s. The 8x60I/J was the legal variant for civilian sporters, but the 8x60S was the favored version.

Can you form 8x60I cases from 30-06 brass?
The dimensions shouldn't be a great deal different.

It's the 57mm case that was the issue, not the .323" bore, i believe. As long as the guns could not chamber and fire 8x57, the allies did not care what the exact cartridge was. At least that is what I have read. It would explain why you find 8x60 in both groove diameters. Like all things in the shooting world, it would not surprise me in the least to find contradictory versions in print..... since I can't read French and don't have a copy of the Treaty of Versailles laying around here.... will just have to give it my best guess!!!

German gunsmiths continued to use .318" barrels for years after the military dropped it and went to .323" groove diameter. Just another caliber to them.... sorta like we get all wound up between the slight differences in the .270 vs. .280. 0.007" for our comparison, 0.005" for theirs, we should not look down our noses when other people split hairs, cartridge-wise! They however could have pushed the shoulder forward a tad to prevent the .323" 8x57 from chambering in a .318" 8x57, but governments and armies seldom worry about such things. After all you'll shoot the ammo that is issued, soldier! :D

I doubt the german army would have left a bunch of 8x60 ammo anywhere, as that would not have been standard issue, but odd things happen in war and you never know. In WWI they used a great many 'civilian' rifles that were scoped for sniper work; there is a possibility that similar things happened in the next war. You never know......

Heck yeah I like those german mausers; they are great!!!! :D

=MikeG---Heck yeah I like those german mausers; they are great!!!! :D


But this is a Finnish Sako mauser, which is one of the best rifles ever made by Sako, and I think would prefer it to a German rifle too. Still greater! :D

.30-06 cases can be used, but need to be shortened 3 mm.

Regards,

O.S.

,,,Stubbon.... if you think shooters over here are entrenched in the past, try Germans!

No disrespect to people of German ancestry... there's a few in my family's woodpile, also.... but my most difficult tech suppport customers, by ethnic group, are Germans.... second place isn't even close!

As I tell my wife, I am not stubborn, just firm in my belleifs(sp) " :D , :D, :D "

Lee L.