I have an old Mauser that I know is not a 98 action. Is there a simple way to tell if the receiver is a 95 or earlier?


Thanks!

Well, if it's not a 98, then it's earlier :)

The big differences, externally, from the 93/95/96 are outside dimensions, and a few key features of the bolt that are easily spotted. The bolt will have a third lug just forward of the bolt handle, and the shroud on the bolt will be much wider on the 98 vs. the 95 & earlier.

Also, if you can just unscrew the shroud while the firing pin is cocked and the safety is in the middle position (without pushing on in any buttons or catches), that's a pre-98.

Last.... the bottom of the bolt face is square on at least some pre 98s.

Post a picture.....

This is kind of difficult with out a picture, but there are some things that can help narrow it down.

1. does it have a screw in the bolt next to the bolt handle?

2. does it have a single stacked removable box magazine or a double stack mag. more or less part of the floor plate and reciever?

3. look at the part of the bolt that pushes the cartridge into the chamber is it flat (squared off) or round?

4. does it have a split bridge?

5. what markings can you see and read off the action? Any crests or proof marks could be helpfull.

more questions may follow.

Regards
Gene

I'll try to post a picture of a 93, 96, and 98 bolt tomorrow if I get a chance, and you haven't sorted it out by then.

If it is not a 98 ( thrid rear locking lug or safety lug ) and has the large non rotating extracter like the 98 then it would be a 92 thruogh 95. the way I tell the diferance between a 93 and 95 is to look at the bolt face if it is flat on the bottom it is a 93 and if it is round it is a 95. But then again I read that some 93's had round bolt face's. What caiber is it and what kind of markings on it

Albert

2 lugs. one is split to ride on a rail that's part of the receiver.

Bottom of bolt is flat.

Extractor rotates. No screw near bolt handle.

I think the caliber is 9x57 or possibly 9x63. I slugged barrel and got

groove = .357 = 9.07 mm +/-

lands = .346 =8.76 mm+/-


The following is from another thread I started about the gun last week..."9x63 cxartridge for German Mauser"

On the top of the barrel:

"Otto Bock-Hoflieferant, Berlin"

THe barrel is blued and has 5 steps from receiver to muzzle.

The receiver is greyish and could be case hardened. The receiver is marked "Deutches Waffen- und Munitionfabfriken,
Berlin" on the left side.

There's proof marks on the receiver:

Left side..."N" with crown on top, and another, separate crown,

"2,7 g G.B.P." over " St. m. G." The "2,7" is struck over some older numbers that I cannot read for sure, but they could be "2,75" or "2,76".

Right side has "762" which I assume is a serial number as the same number is on the barrel. There's a proofmark following the number on both the receiver and the barrel. The mark is a circle w/ what looks like an underlined "J" and a "B" inside. It's a "B" for sure, but the "J" is smaller and could look like a stylized capital "T".

I've had explanations of the 2.7 g GBP and Otto Bock.

SHould have some photos later this week.

Leverite,

here are som links and pictures, which may give some clues:

Worth reading: http://www.pettsons.net/m46.html
Swedish m/94/96 and later m/38, has with some very small differences the same action as Mauser m/93 or m/95.

http://www.pettsons.net/hvapics/boltheads_2.jpg
From the left: Mauser m/94, M/98, Husqvarna 1600, Hva 1900 - both latter not actual here.

http://www.pettsons.net/hvapics/46_146_640.jpg
Left. Mauser m/94, other two m/98.

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/default.asp

On m/95 Chilean: http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=83831

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=41

http://www.mauser-ev.de/startseite.htm (Only M98 here and German text, sorry!)

Regards,

O.S.

Great phots OS.

Mine looks most like the one on the left, but it has a flat bolt bottm.

Must be a '93 then.


How strong are those old actions? Obviously the '98 is stronger w/ three lugs, but lots of modern rifles only have the two lugs. Is the steel the weak point?

Just curious as I would be a fool to run hot loads thru the old girl.

thanks all!

It does sound like you have the '93 action. your right about keeping the pressures lower in these arms.

two main reasons for this. first, the gas dispersion from a ruptured primer is not very good in early Mausers. This could mean blindness if hot gasses and metals exit tward your face. Second while the metalurgy is not exact, there are no built in safety lugs in case the main lugs do fail.

The good news is that there are a heck of a lot of fine cartridges that can be chambered in these actions.

Regards,
Gene

The turks rechambered a LOT of 93s to 8x57 in the 1930s, and Turk ball ammo is about the hottest 8x57 ever made. Various people have reported velocities with 150 grains loads in the neighborhood of 3,000 fps!!! :eek:

That does not mean that this is a spectacularly good idea; these were, I would imagine, sorta last-ditch rifles if things got really bad. Let's just also say the Turk army did not put the $$ into training conscripts that the USA does, and certainly, liability laws are a bit different over there. The two 93 Turks I have obviously were shot more than a few times with service ammo, and I popped off a couple of rounds in mine (with my face NOT behind the rifle) just as a sort of proof load.

As stated.... it's when things go wrong that you will see why the 98 was a considerable improvement. It's exceedingly rare that bolt lugs will shear... usually, catastrophic failure comes from a gas release into the action that splits the receiver ring, releasing the lugs from their seats. Normally the next thing that stops a 2-lug bolt is your face... ouch! Regarless of the mechanics, the result is the same.

You can get a better shroud for a 93/95 bolt to improve gas deflection; forget who makes them, but have seen them advertised in maybe Rifle or Handloader. Still.... it is just prudent to not lean on the throttle of a gun that might have been made over 100 years ago! One of my 93 turks dates from about 1898, per the arabic script on the side, and the other I can't tell. I'm going to stick to factory level 8x57 which is 37,000CUP or handloads that might run a tiny bit more, and feel perfectly comfortable in doing so.

Generally speaking, common cartridges for small-ring mausers are kept below 45,000CUP, by agreement among the SAAMI members. This would include the 7x57, 6.5x55 Swede, for example. I don't know if the 9x57 has a SAAMI pressure guideline, but with open sights it would be kind of silly to think that anything is gained by a few thousand extra pounds of pressure.

Frankly, I'd just load it up to around 40,000CUP or so and not worry too much about it. If a .35 Rem can kill with much less pressure and case capacity (Ranch Dog's pressure traces suggest factory .35 Rem ammo is barely cracking 30,000CUP, if that), then the 9x57 at 40,000 CUP will be a real hum-dinger.

leverite,
I recently posted questions similar to yours especially about the caliber for a sporter with the early actions. This is what I believe to be true. I have two '93 design actions. One is a Spanish and the other is a Brazilian. Both have flat bottomed bolts. For argument sake, they are the same in considering a sporting caliber. The calibers must be low pressure design ie. 250/3000 Savage, .257 Roberts*, 7x57, 8x57, 300 Savage. There may be more that I have forgotten, but that is a basic list. I love the .257 Roberts, but you would have to ensure that you do not use +P rounds or handloads that exceed the 42,000 or 45,000 pressure. In the hands of someone that is inexperienced it could be a problem. Then there are those that have chambered early, especially the Swedish actions, in higher pressure calibers ie. 22/250. They claim that they have not seen a problem. I have small children and feel old and like my face, so I will pass on the gambling game. My final decision was to stick with the 6.5x55 for the swedish actions and 250/3000 or 7x57 for the others. Also, I would not bother with an action that is damaged, rusty, pitted or significantly worn. Now there's my 2 cents from a hobbyist non-expert. Good luck, Peter.

Thanks...that's very good advice. I'd followed your earlier thread and it was helpful.

I think my rifle is a nifty rig as it stands. I haven't weighed it, but I bet it's around 7 pounds. It balances like a dream.

It's most likely a 9x57...will get the chamber cast. Even it it's 9x 63 I will use light loads with heavy cast bullets.

I've been looking around for used dies, as new ones are over $100 in either caliber. ANother alternative would be to buy ammo from Buffalo Bore. Spendy either way.

I have no desire (right now) to put a different barrel on it. I figure Otto Bock knew more about what he was doing when he built the rifle than I do.

Sorry for the lousey photography, but you can still tell what a sweet rig this old Mauser is/

Just got the chamber casting results back...it's a 9x 57.

Now to buy dies, etc!

Just got the chamber casting results back...it's a 9x 57.

Now to buy dies, etc!

What a fine looking old Mauser!

One of the key issues is hardening. Some of the 93's had hardened steel recevers and some did not. You should get this checked. The bolt lugs or receiver will wear on the ones that were not hardened if you load hot. This will increase the head spacing.