been reading about this new cartridge on browning.com and it looks like a great new caretridge with a flat trajectory and lots of knockdown power, anybody have this cartidge yet, what does everybody think of it so far?

I've been shooting one since 1979, well with a little more powder than the short magnum and I gotta tell you it works. The 8mm is a great bullet diameter. Knocks Elk and moose flat, deer don't know what hit them and the two Browns I shot in alaska went about two feet and fell down.

I don't know what kind of velocity the Winchester Short Magnum is getting, but I'm pushing a 220 grain Seirra boattail at between 2970 and 3080 depending upon which powder I use.

I sure love that big 32 and I hope that Winchester has better luck with it than Remington did with theirs.

Good luck on getting the 8mm it should make an excellent game rifle.

Of all the short mags, I think this is the one that interests me the most. I think they advertise the trajectory of a 300 Win Mag with the power of the 338. I'd like to chrony some and find out if thats accurate or not. I don't have any mag rifles and if I were to consider a hunt in Canada or Alaska for brown bear, I think this would be one of the forerunners for me.

With all this being said, I wonder if they will take the natural progression of things and make a 375 WSM?

Short action, CRF safari express rifle...sounds sexy...

Darrell

yep o browning they say shoots like the 300 mag but hits like the 338, i have a .270 now but if i ever get to go to alaska or hunt bigger game than elk i would consider this seems like a great idea. anyone know what the recoil would be like?



heres the article from browning.com

http://www.browning.com/products/features/detail.asp?ID=78

and heres the comparison between it and the .300 mag and the 338

http://www.browning.com/products/features/detail.asp?ID=77

been reading about this new cartridge on browning.com and it looks like a great new caretridge with a flat trajectory and lots of knockdown power, anybody have this cartidge yet, what does everybody think of it so far?
I think if I ever make the jump to the 'short mags', this will be the one I go with. If Remington ever chambers for for the .325, I'll buy it.

yep looks like it's gonna be a winner

The charts are pretty, but I'll believe it when I see it. I'm sure it's a great round, but they aren't telling you the WHOLE truth with those charts.

For starters, the velocity on the 300 Win Mag with a 180 should be equal or nearly equal to the 325 WSM, as it is definitely capable of accurate loads over 3000 fps. Their point is "The 325 WSM shoots faster than the 300 Win Mag". The problem is that even if it did start out faster (it doesn't) , the .308 bullet at that weight has a higher ballistic coefficient and would actually carry about 200 ft/lbs more energy at 300 yards.

Their other table comparing the 325 WSM to the 338 WM seems reasonable. The 325 is, for all practical purposes, supposed to be equal to the 338. Number-wise, it is just short, but if they are correct and not overly-inflated factory specs, no shooter or game animal would be able to tell the difference. Personally, I'm not in the market for a 338 Win Mag in an ultralight form, so I'm not in the market for a 325 WSM, either.

amndouglas

well even if it isnt better it is still gonna be a impressive cartridge

I'm not in the position where I could compare the 325 Winchester short mag to the 300 short mag, but I just sighted in a 300 Winchester short mag and I can compare it to the 300 Winchester as both were shot over my chronograph. I can also tell you about the Rem 8mm mag as thats my hunting rifle of choice for the last 26 years.

With Federal 180 grain ammo the 300 Winchester short mag from a new Winchester model 70 stealth chrono'd 2870 fps average for ten rounds. The 300 Winchester with Federal 180 grain ammo went 3030 fps.

I gotta say that sure seems like comparing a 30-06 to the 300. I don't see much of a gain over an 06.

Now the big 8mm Rem mag shoots a 220 grain serria boattail at 3040 average from a 24 inch bbl. If the 325 Win Short mag gets 2850 with a 220 grainer it would indeed make a great bear and elk rifle.

Problem is though a great a cartridge as the 8mm Rem mag was it never really got off the ground. Folks in the US just never rushed to the 8mm. Perhaps by calling it a 325 Winchester can get around that.

As far as short and long actions I got to tell you in the woods I can't tell the difference. I hear a lot of controversy about how much lighter, how much faster, how much something else. I just can't see it.

I have 243's, 308's, a 280 Remington and the big 8mm mag and I shoot them all. When I'm shooting them
Bolt throw difference does not seem to make a darn bit of difference.

The model seven Rem in 308 is surly a light gun, but so is the 280 rem mountian rifle and again I can't tell the difference when I'm shooting between this long and short action.

The 700 BDL 8 mag is a heavy rifle, but so is the remington 700 VLS 243 varmiter and again I can't tell much difference when there being shot.

Hay guys I'm sorry I got this thread off on a tangent, mabe you guys can help me understand this short, medium and long action thing cause it sure has me stumped.

All I think it boils down to is people who already have a 300 or 338mag or a 8mm Rem mag don't really need a new shorter version as they can seat heavy long bullets out further for more powder space.

And the ones thinking of buying a new rifle in above calibers might be interested in trying something new. I have had a 7WSM for a couple years now but if I already had a 7Rem Mag I would not have bought it. My rifle is accurate and stays right with the 7RM until you get into the heaviest bullet for 7mm.

Bill

yeah i dont think people who already have big magnums will replace it but when i look for a bigger rifle this will definitley be one of my top choices

Just a stab in the dark, but...what about head spacing consistencies (shoulder of .325 vs belt of .338)?

I know it's not a bench gun, but ?

I've heard that most folks get better accuracy from headspacing belted magnums on the shoulder than on the belt. I've been doing this with my 8 mags for years and accuracy is as good as any of my non-belted cases.

Yup - that's the "proper" way to headspace belted cases. They last much longer when reloading that way.

Nice cartridge, but I can't see where it will really do anything a 30-06 won't, with the exception of being far less versatile. Not bashing the cartridge, hope it will sell lots of rifles, but the short action is all it has over the 30-06. When you put both of them in a 22-24" barrel rifle I doubt you'd see much difference .

Only my opinion.

i dont know i think i would take the 325 wsm over the 30-06 mainly because it's new and cool and i think wil do everything the 30-06 will do better in a smaller shorter package with less recoil and i think they'll find it's accuracy is gona be top notch

blr.270:

I think you're a bit brainwashed by all of the marketing. I doubt the 325 WSM will kick less than a 30-06. In fact, I know it won't. The laws of physics still apply no matter what marketing spin is put on a product.

According to Newton, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

How can you possibly send more mass (bullet and powder) out of the barrel faster, and have less force exerted on the rifle and the shooter? They could truthfully say it about the 300 WSM compared to the 300 Win Mag simply because it burns slightly less powder to achieve similar velocities.

To make it worse, they are putting these cartridges in rifles that are lighter than most sporter weight 30-06's. Better factory recoil pads are probably the only reason they are selling any of them. I doubt they'd sell too many with a hard, solid rubber butt pad, or even a steel plate found on many older rifles. If you got a 325 WSM and a 30-06 in exactly the same configuration of weight, stock style, recoil pad, etc., I would bet the -06 would be more pleasant to shoot.

If you want a 325 WSM, that's fine. After all, it does have it's advantages. Just don't swallow every bit of advertising, hook, line and sinker.

amndouglas

Forgive me, as I'm new to handloading, but could someone explain how to headspace a belted case on the shoulder?

i know the 30-06 still has it's advantages as well, like more verstility but if you had the same load in both cartridges i still think the recoil would be about the same, both are great cartrodges i think, and as time goes on i think the wsm's are gonna grow in popularity and then they will be as versatile with better performances, maybe not yet but i think it will happen. aklthough i dont think it will ever replace things like the 30-06 and .300 magnum just because theve been around a long time and are trusted rounds

Nice cartridge, but I can't see where it will really do anything a 30-06 won't, with the exception of being far less versatile. Not bashing the cartridge, hope it will sell lots of rifles, but the short action is all it has over the 30-06. When you put both of them in a 22-24" barrel rifle I doubt you'd see much difference .

Only my opinion.


Isn't that kinda like saying what will the 338 Win Mag do the 30-06 can't?

Forgive me, as I'm new to handloading, but could someone explain how to headspace a belted case on the shoulder?


I don't handload for a belted case but I think it's just backing of your FL die a little so you won't push the shoulder back and then trying it in your rifle to see how hard the bolt is to close. A little at a time until you can feel a tiny resistence on closing the bolt and you keep your FL die set to take the load off the belt and put it on the shoulder. I'm sure others can explain it better than me.

Bill

M1Garand,
I understand the .325 WSM might have a little on the 30-06, but from what I've seen the .300WSM compared to a High Energy or Light Mag 30-06 loading, which is a lot more apples to apples than the standard loadings, is little to nothing when fired from the same barrel length. Add .015 to the hole in the barrel and I don't think it's going to change all that much.

The .325 WSM aint no .338 Win Mag, not even close. You can look at the best case scenario factory ballistics, but they have not turned out to be very accurate so far. When I see a .325 WSM pitching a 250gr Nosler Partition at 2800fps, then you can make the comparison, but it won't. It'll barely throw a 220 at 2600, so I don't see any valid comparison between the two..it's not even close. The way a cartridge handles heavy bullets is what seperates it from the rest.

um how do you know for sure what the cartridge will and wont do according to browning it pushes a 180 grain bullet at over 3,000 fps so why would a 220 drop all the way to 2600 it wouldnt. i know browning is trying to sell the certridge and they are bst scenarious but the stats on the others are the same.

http://www.huntingmag.com/big_game/elk325_052605/index1.html

heres an article on the 325 wsm being used for elk the 200 grain bullet goes at nearly 3000 fps so i cant imagin the 220 being anywhere near 2600fps, also the 325 has almost exactly the same amount of energy as the 338, again i relaize that browning is trying to sell their product but i cant imagine it being far off

Sorry, mistyped.

Winchester is claiming 2800 fps for a 220gr.

The difference in between a .308 and a .300 Win Mag could pretty fairly be summed up by the difference of pushing a 30gr heavier bullet at the same speed. If you take a look it's about the same thing. That is why I say it's not in the same league as a .338 Win Mag

If you look at loading data for a .300 WSM and a 30-06, according to Hodgdon, you will see you can get about 100fps more out of a .300 WSM using 180gr bullets. Near as I can tell the advantage dissapears to margin of error when you go to a 220gr bullet. So if you take the new, high pressure, loadings for a .325 WSM with the most streamilined bullet in the most efficient weight...and compare it to the worst loads for a .338 Win Mag, not a Federal HE loading with a 250gr bullet for example, you might think that they are similar cartridges.

This is where the marketing can blind folks to reality.

I applaud the rifle and cartridge manufacturers for coming out with new products, when their old products, properly cared for, last several lifetimes! That's a tough business to sustain.

If you're looking for no-frills practicality, the 30-06 is it (and I love the old 30-06). If you want to have some fun, try new rifles and cartridges, and help our firearms manufacturers out. My next project will be with a Mauser Yugo on the 325 WSM, and I really don't care how it compares to a 300 WSM or a 338 Win Mag (which is one of the best medium bore cartridges for N. America ever conceived)....I just want to have fun with it!

Shawn,
that I can appreciate. The more rifles sold the stonger the industry, the stronger the industry the more likely it is we keep our rights longer. Oh yeah, we get new toys to play with too! :)

The new 8mm premium bullets that are likely to crop up will be a great development for guys that shoot the 8 Mag.

kciH,

I understand where you are coming from and agree that the marketing tends to inflate numbers and ballistics for the sake of sales. I am going more off of published numbers as I don't have a 325, nor have I chrony'd one. But if there is any truth to the claims of "shoots as flat as a 300 Win Mag and hits like a 338" then this may be the best WSM yet. As it appears on paper, the 325 is at it's best with the 180-200 grain bullets and comparable to the 338 in those bullet weights. The 338 definately has the advantage in heavier bullet weights.

However on that same marketing ploy with ballistics, I'd be interested to see how accurate they are with the light mags as well and how close they are to what they claim (remember, the same marketing strategy applies here). May be worth $20 for to me get a box of light mags for my 270 Win to chrony and see how they compare.

M1Garand,
I've not shot a lot of Light Mag or High Energy ammo, except for a few boxes in my .308. It was pretty much spot on, taking into account for the 20" barrel. If memory serves, there where some magazine write ups when Hornady first brought it out and it was the real deal. I can't tell you first hand about the cartridges in question.

I think the .325 WSM will be a good cartridge, I just think it's silly to try and sell it as a .338, because if you NEED a .338 I think the .325 WSM will fall short. From what I can see, the .325 WSM would be the REAL substitute for a .300 Win Mag as it should handle the same bullet weights at a similar velocity, only problem is you're fairly limited in the lighter weight bullets for real flat shooting for smaller game like deer/antelope, at least at present. Probably be a great round, just feel it lacks the versatility of the .30's because of bullet selection, and lacks the real power of the .338 because it just doesn't have it.

well browning's point is that it fills the gap between the 2 rounds not replaces them. it is close to a 338 and can be used for most everything that the 338 is used for except maybe the biggest game and it shoots like a 300. it's also very new lighter bullets will come out to make it a more versatile round.

Hay there blr.270

You go ahead and get one of those nice 325 Winchesters. The 8mm is used around the world and is one of the overlooked great cartridges here in the US. I've been shooting one of remingtons 8 mags since 1979 and though it exceeds the 325's performance it isn't by a lot.

Be sure and get a good recoil pad cause in a light gun it's gonna bump you, better yet get it magna-ported. Mine kicks like a super light 270 or a light 06 after Larry Kelley did his magic.

I think the only round that would come close to the new 325 would be the 338-06 that Weatherby re-introduced a few years ago. That's a really nice elk cartridge, and one you might want to look at also for that "in-between" cartridge, though it does not come in that short action.

You know after such a long spate of no new cartridges it's wonderful to see the factories bold enough to offer us some new ones. Always makes me wonder how long their gonna last, but what fun.

God Bless

yeah though i cant get one right now, when i start elk and bigger game it will be on the top of my list

Hay there blr.270

You go ahead and get one of those nice 325 Winchesters. The 8mm is used around the world and is one of the overlooked great cartridges here in the US. I've been shooting one of remingtons 8 mags since 1979 and though it exceeds the 325's performance it isn't by a lot.

does anybody still chamber a NIB rifle in the 8mm? or will I have to check out the used market for one?

Remington will make you an 8mm Magnum out of their custom shop. The AWR and Safari's, Custom C class rifles are overpriced in my opinion, not really offering much over the BDL or CDL except glass bedded action and barrel. You can also probably still find a 8x57 NIB in the Remington Classic produced last year.

Other than that, you'll probably have to go custom or at least semi-custom.

well browning's point is that it fills the gap between the 2 rounds not replaces them. it is close to a 338 and can be used for most everything that the 338 is used for except maybe the biggest game and it shoots like a 300. it's also very new lighter bullets will come out to make it a more versatile round.


I'm failing to see a gap between the .300 Win Mag and the .338 Win Mag, myself.

.300 Win Mag, per Hodgdon, max velocities:

165 gr: ~3100 (fps),
180 gr: ~3050-3100,
200 gr: ~2850-2900
220 gr: ~2750

.338 Win Mag, per Hodgdon, max velocities:

160 gr: ~3150 (fps),
180 gr: ~3100-3150
200 gr: ~2950
225 gr: ~2800

I'd be stunned if the downrange trajectories were off by more than an inch, out to 400 yards, when comparing same weight and identical bullet styles. Fact is, a .300 win already is 'close to a .338' till you get over 200 grains, and a .338 already shoots 'as flat as a .300 mag'.

Pretty tough squeezing into that gap! Call me clueless.... ??? Now, squeezing a little more performance into short-action rifles, well, that is a valid point. An itty-bitty point, but valid none the less.

I do like it that there may be more interest in the 8mm bore; I've got 8mms here like I was running a refugee camp for them (old mausers, mostly).

I agree with Bob, buy a 8Mag, or a .340 Weatherby for that matter, but this ground is already covered. Unless, that is, you're afraid you'll short stroke your rifle on that charging elk/moose you just shot..then you might want to choose the .325 :)

Heck, at least it provokes discussion.

At least they finally did find a "short" round that would duplicate what a .300 WinMag does, albiet wihout all the versatility the .300 fillintheblankMag does it with. Maybe this is why 8mm rounds have not had the succes they might, they don't do anything better, and some things not as well, as the rounds on either side of them. I've got nothing against a bullet diameter, but I don't see anything new or better.

Why would a reasonable man want to have ONE rifle to do the job of two? Much more fun to have two rifles. You can always have them both built the same way.

I'm plagiarizing here, but I like this one: Beware the man that has one rifle...he probably has other faults too. :)

IMO, the 8mm Rem Mag is one of the great rounds that never made it. If I had a large amount of cash to get rifles and shotguns, I think this would be one of the top 5 I got.

Anyway I looked up some table on the respective web sites and here is the ballistics of the '06, 325 WSM, and 338 Win Mag.

'06 with 180 grain Hornady Light Mag:

velocity/fpe

muzzle - 2900/3361
100 yards - 2695/2902
200 yards - 2498/2494
300 yards - 2310/2133
400 yards - 2131/1814
500 yards - 1959/1533

325 WSM with 180 grain

muzzle - 3060/3743
100 yards - 2841/3226
200 yards - 2632/2769
300 yards - 2432/2365
400 yards - 2242/2009
500 yards - 2060/1696

325 WSM with 200 grain Accubond

muzzle - 2950/3866
100 yards - 2753/3367
200 yards - 2565/2922
300 yards - 2384/2524
400 yards - 2210/2170
500 yards - 2044/1856

And the 338 Win Mag with 200 grain BST

muzzle - 2950/3864
100 yards - 2724/3294
200 yards - 2509/2794
300 yards - 2303/2355
400 yards - 2108/1972
500 yards - 1922/1640

Depending how much stock you put in published ballistics, the 325 and 338 appear very close with the 200 grain load. And the 325 is definately more than the '06 with light mags.

I bought my 8mm Remington Mag when I was stationed in Alaska in the Army in the late 70's. I bought it for several reasons, some of the valid and some not.

I liked the idea that with a 220 grain bullet it delivered energy comparible to the 338 mag.

I liked the idea that with the 220 grain spitzer boattail it would shooter flatter than most 300 magnums then on the market.

I especially liked the idea that it would outshoot my hunting partners 300 ICL Grizzly (basically a 300 Weatherby Mag).

The first two were valid reasons, the third was, well just plain silly, but probably the main reason I bought it.

It ended up that for Alaskan hunting it was a good choice. It had the reach of the big 300 magnums with bullet energy at or slightly above the 338 at longer ranges.

I felt I had stumbled on one of the true hunters big bore cartridges. Needless to say I never lost the chance to gloat to my hunting partner.

Looking back I still think the 8 mag is one of the best big bore cartridges, but there are lots of others. If it had been available I would have bought the new 338 ultra-mag, but it wasn't available then. The great 340 Weatherby was, but I didn't like the rifles it was chambered in.

Anyway I sure hope Winchester's new 8mm isn't the flash in the pan the 8mm Rem mag was. It should be a great elk cartridge.