I checked out a Sako 75 Hunter at Cabela's over the weekend, and just fell in love with the thing! I had gone to "sniff test" four other B.A.'s on my "next gun" list (Kimber 84M, Ruger Frontier Scout, CZ 550 American & Winchester M70 Classic Featherweight) and the freaking Sako sang a siren song to me down at the far end of the gun counter. I mean... that machine is suhweeet!

Anyway, I'm doing some reading up on the model as a result, and I can't seem to find a whole lot of information about the action. According to Sako it is a Mauser action with "improvements", but it isn't a controlled-round feed. There are three locking lugs, the bolt-face has a recessed area within which the extractor and ejector sit, the depression contains the entire cartridge rim during extraction and passage throught the action to the chamber, and the claw is engaged as soon as the front of the cartridge enters the chamber.

Kind of sounds like the Remmington "3 rings of steel", in that the rim is surrounded by the edge of the bolt-face, the round is surrounded by the action and is effectively guided into the chamber...

Kind of sounds like a controlled-round push-feed, like the new Winchester short-magnums...

The presence of a claw confuses me...

1) Please help me understand the details of the Sako action... correct me where I am wrong (above)... enlighten me regarding its mode of operation & structure... compare & contrast to other actions...

2) The key factor I want to get at is reliability under unpredictable circumstances. The major value of the controlled-round feed seems to be the slight edge of assurance that, under duress, the rifle will feed flawlessly. How does the Sako 75 action rate in that respect?

Sako Lovers... Sako Haters... PLEASE ENGAGE!!!


Michael.

You have much more self-control than me. The first time I ever picked up a Sako 75, I couldn't put it down, and I had to carry it all the way home.

In the Sako 75, the "claw-like extractor, is simply that, an extractor. It's only job is to pull the the cartridge out once chambered. It does that job. It is a push-feed action. The cartridge is not actually held in place by anything until is is fully chambered. The "claw extractor" on the Model 70 is a much larger piece of metal that runs along side the bolt, and it does engage the cartridge from the moment it is picked up from the magazine to the moment it is ejected.

I own both a M70 Classic with the claw extractor and a Sako 75. I personally like the Sako better, but I have had no issues with either action. Field-stripping of the Sako bolt takes a bit more muscle than unscrewing the firing pin assembly from the Winchester. Both field strip without tools, but you better have some padded channel locks or a gorilla-tight grip to get the Sako back together. On the other hand, a 2-year old could reassemble the bolt on the Model 70. The Sako bolt, with it's tighter tolerances doesn't get very dirty, so there's not much need to disassemble it. I disassemble my M70 bolt quite often, maybe because it's easier, but mostly because it seems to get dirtier. What I like about the Sako action is it's simplicity. In comparison to the Winchester, there are fewer moving parts, and all parts fit perfectly together. There is no slop, but the action is still as smooth as glass with little/if any lubrication.

As much as I love that Sako, if your number one priority is having no problem chambering a round during the following circumstances, then the Winchester Model 70 Classic is your ticket.

1) While experimenting with shooting positions out of the Shooter's Kama Sutra.
2) While free-falling from a cliff alongside a maneater and wanting to make sure he is dead, regardless of whether or not he has a parachute.
3) While right-side up but bounding like a deer from the aforementioned maneater.
4) While shaking like a leaf on a tree and standing toe-to-toe with the biggest animal you've ever seen which was not impressed by your first warning shot.

Humor aside, during "normal" hunting situations, I don't see where a push-feed action is a disadvantage. But if dangerous game is what you're after or you get REALLY shaky when you see horns and the animal sticks around for a second attempt, I can see where the CRF is a good thing to have.

amndouglas

PS I suppose I'd be classified as a Sako lover, but I wasn't happy with the way they handled their "barrel blowup" recall.

It is a push-feed action. The cartridge is not actually held in place by anything until is is fully chambered.


Is the cartridge-rim seated in the recessed portion of the bolt-face once its stripped out of the magazine?


1) While experimenting with shooting positions out of the Shooter's Kama Sutra.


Now THAT was funny!!!!!!!!!!


Humor aside, during "normal" hunting situations, I don't see where a push-feed action is a disadvantage.


"Normal" hunting situations are all I ever intend to encounter... its the unintended encounters I'm more concerned about (bears, etc.). Not ever having owned a BA rifle, I just don't know from personal experience how reliable the push-feed variety can be.

If you had to rely on ONE GUN (I know... I know... but put up with me for a second) for all your needs, including protection in the field, would you be willing to rely on a push-feed like the Sako?


Michael.

I know your last question was posed to amnodouglas, but I relayed a post about a guide here in AK that was mauled severely when his Sako 75 had a "stovepipe" type jam. While this is user error, it is the most common type of pushfeed type bolt action failures. The guide thinks he short stroked the action on the charge. While a short stroke can happen with a CRF action, it doesn't lock the action up like a pushfeed.

If dangerous animals are involved, I would prefer using a CRF action, all else being equal. Even then, would make sure with absolute certainty feeding and extraction were right. Many times, today's out of the box rifles aren't.

I own both a M70 Classic with the claw extractor and a Sako 75. I personally like the Sako better, but I have had no issues with either action. Field-stripping of the Sako bolt takes a bit more muscle than unscrewing the firing pin assembly from the Winchester. Both field strip without tools, but you better have some padded channel locks or a gorilla-tight grip to get the Sako back together. On the other hand, a 2-year old could reassemble the bolt on the Model 70. The Sako bolt, with it's tighter tolerances doesn't get very dirty, so there's not much need to disassemble it. I disassemble my M70 bolt quite often, maybe because it's easier, but mostly because it seems to get dirtier. What I like about the Sako action is it's simplicity. In comparison to the Winchester, there are fewer moving parts, and all parts fit perfectly together. There is no slop, but the action is still as smooth as glass with little/if any lubrication.
Very nice rundown of the differences - I haven't read that kind of description before.

Jaywalker
.
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As said in the above post, push round feed or CRF. I believe are an issue of how big are the chances of you coming face to face with a critter that may have you for dinner. If you feel safe with the weapon and know how it operates and have used it enough to feel good with it in your hands then buy what you really like. Otherwise you may purchase a weapon you really don't care for and it will lead to a short love affair and early divorce between you and the rifle.My own choice is the Sako 75 I have one in 300 Ultra Mag and love it. What ever you choose enjoy and happy hunting.

Hoeram :D

Is the cartridge-rim seated in the recessed portion of the bolt-face once its stripped out of the magazine?

...


If you had to rely on ONE GUN (I know... I know... but put up with me for a second) for all your needs, including protection in the field, would you be willing to rely on a push-feed like the Sako?


Michael.


To answer your first question, no it really isn't seated in the bolt face until it is fully chambered. Peeling a round off of the magazine doesn't offer enough resistance, nor is it lined up to obtain a positive grip on the cartridge any earlier in the bolt stroke.

If you short-stroked either rifle in a bad situation, it would only get worse. One rifle would be jammed, and the other would have a piece of spent brass in the chamber instead of a live round. Both are bad news, but you might have a chance of a second shot without the jam in the CRF.

I just want to make one point. The operation of your chosen firearm should become second nature. Just like driving a car or riding a bike, you shouldn't have to think about 99% of the things you do with it. If you are worried about a quick follow-up shot when going into the bear woods or whatever, then practice it and get that movement to be second nature. It should just be automatic. So, yeah, I'd trust the Sako just as much as the M70, so long as I had trained myself to do my part.

Right now, I don't have to worry much about bears. All we have are blackies, and they've turned tail and ran every time I've seen one.

amndouglas

To answer your first question, no it really isn't seated in the bolt face until it is fully chambered. Peeling a round off of the magazine doesn't offer enough resistance, nor is it lined up to obtain a positive grip on the cartridge any earlier in the bolt stroke.

If you short-stroked either rifle in a bad situation, it would only get worse. One rifle would be jammed, and the other would have a piece of spent brass in the chamber instead of a live round. Both are bad news, but you might have a chance of a second shot without the jam in the CRF.

I just want to make one point. The operation of your chosen firearm should become second nature. Just like driving a car or riding a bike, you shouldn't have to think about 99% of the things you do with it. If you are worried about a quick follow-up shot when going into the bear woods or whatever, then practice it and get that movement to be second nature. It should just be automatic. So, yeah, I'd trust the Sako just as much as the M70, so long as I had trained myself to do my part.

Right now, I don't have to worry much about bears. All we have are blackies, and they've turned tail and ran every time I've seen one.

amndouglas


Well thought-out and verbalized response, sir, thank you. It makes eminent sense, and highlights the reality that an unprepared firearm operator is as likely to muff up a simple aspect of use - such as safety on/off - during a high-ressure moment as he/she is something like a short-stroke.

The Sako calls to me........


Michael.

No problem. You'll have to let us know how things go with your new rifle once you get it. I am very happy with my Sako 75, and I hope yours is everything you're looking for.

amndouglas

The Sako calls to me........

So, go get it, boy :)

I've owned a Sako 75 since 1998, and have never experienced any problems with it - feeding or otherwise... The three locking lug system makes for a *very* rigid, smooth and accurate action, and I'm sure that you will be thrilled with yours.

As a matter of interest, what calibre are you getting, will the rifle be scoped, and what type of animals will you be hunting?

Here in Africa, if anything less than one of the .4xx calibres, your "follow-up" shot would probably be too late to save you in any case, should a large, wounded dangerous animal decide to attack you... and if you used anything other than express open sights you would probably miss the charging animal as well. If you want "insurance" to be able to handle "anything which comes your way", don't look at a bolt action rifle - get a double barrel "Express" rifle in calibre .404J, .458WM or similar ;)

(Of course, I'm not really recommending this, just trying to prove a point...)

Hennie

So, go get it, boy :)

I've owned a Sako 75 since 1998, and have never experienced any problems with it - feeding or otherwise... The three locking lug system makes for a *very* rigid, smooth and accurate action, and I'm sure that you will be thrilled with yours.

As a matter of interest, what calibre are you getting, will the rifle be scoped, and what type of animals will you be hunting?

Here in Africa, if anything less than one of the .4xx calibres, your "follow-up" shot would probably be too late to save you in any case, should a large, wounded dangerous animal decide to attack you... and if you used anything other than express open sights you would probably miss the charging animal as well. If you want "insurance" to be able to handle "anything which comes your way", don't look at a bolt action rifle - get a double barrel "Express" rifle in calibre .404J, .458WM or similar ;)

(Of course, I'm not really recommending this, just trying to prove a point...)

Hennie


I thought all you safari types were shy of push-feed actions in any situation where a follow-up shot like you're talking about might be needed...

Something about controlled round feed vs. "jam-o-matic" push-feed actions...

You'd trust your life to your Sako? Is it the anniversary "Safari" model? I ask because that model - and only that model - has a CRF action (they beveled out the bottom of the bolt-face lip).

I thought all you safari types were shy of push-feed actions in any situation where a follow-up shot like you're talking about might be needed...Well, just for the record - I'm not a "safari type", just a normal hunter, shooting mostly African plains game...

I'm also not advocating the use of a push-feed action, or otherwise - I'm merely pointing out that a bolt action rifle is not the best "self defence" type rifle for use in any situation. If one wanted to be as safe as possible, one should use a double-barrel express rifle (with open sights), in a calibre sufficient to stop a charging lion, buffalo, elephant (or polar bear...) in it's tracks, using the second barrel for the "follow-up" shot with no chance of jamming.
If you had to rely on ONE GUN (I know... I know... but put up with me for a second) for all your needs, including protection in the field, would you be willing to rely on a push-feed like the Sako?
IMHO this is yet another case where the old saying "you cannot have your cake and eat it" is true - you just can't rely on a "normal" bolt action hunting rifle to comply with the above quoted "one gun" requirement.
You'd trust your life to your Sako?
No, but because I don't hunt large dangerous game, I see the risk as acceptable. Of course, in my case my Sako 75 is only chambered for the .243Win calibre, and I don't hunt with it in areas where I'm likely to encounter large dangerous animals. I do use my old Sako Finnbear in cal. 30-06 in the Bushfeld, though, and have been in a few situations where I was very close to lion and elephant, but the risk to me was acceptably low, as "normal" wild animals (not wounded, rabid or cornered with babies...) will usually run away from humans. Of course, if I had the opportunity to hunt one of these dangerous animals I would use an appropriate calibre and rifle combination.

My point is that one should not let the very remote chance of encountering an attacking wounded animal (which you should not have shot at with an unsuitable rifle/caliber in the first place...) prevent one from buying and enjoying an exceptional rifle such as the Sako 75 for normal hunting.

Hennie