i saw in a magazine that remington is making a side by side rifle it was available in a couple calibures but 45-70 was the largest has anyone else seen this or know were i can find info on it....thanks

You can look it up on the Remington Web site under the Sparten line of guns. They make in in the 45-70 and 30-06. Nice looking guns. I'm told they will be sold thru Walmart and will be under $600.00

http://www.spartangunworks.com/images/shotguns/spr22.jpg (http://www.spartangunworks.com/spr22.htm)

You might want to take a look at the notes about operating pressures for the rifle.

I think I read somewhere online that it is limited to traditional trapdoor (factory load) pressures. Also I read something about a screw adjustable regulation, which kind of worried me. I was going to buy one, but the loading pressure limitation convinced me not to.

This is off Remington's Website. 28,000 psi would give you pretty good loads for most shooting. As far as being able to regulate barrels that is a wonderful feature as it allows you to set the point of aim of both barrels, something you can't do with most double rifles.

If you needed more power the 06 doesn't have any pressure restrictions.

I know that I got my name on the first one that comes into my local Wally world in an 06.

SPR22 89980 45-70 Govt* 23 1/2" Double 40 1/2" 14 1/4" 7 1/2 $559


*NOTE: For Use with SAAMI Compliant Loads Only (28,000 PSI / 28,000 CUP Operating Pressure).

I was not interested or knowledgable when determinations were made by the "powers that be" that the Marlin and Ruger were stronger than needed for the 28000CUP loads. The companies still only recommend SAMMI compliant ammo, which of course is under this number. From the bit of reading I have done, it would appear that some of the statements that Ken Waters made regarding the Marlin, and information gleaned by testing by Hodgden, determined that the guns were greater in strength and did not need to be limited by the companies sensitive legal counsel. I would guess that some determination of the guns strength will be made as appropriate, and if modern steels were used, with appropriate craftsmanship, the double barrel may well be as strong as a Marlin.

Again, Marlin and Ruger strongly discourage handloading, and especially handloading to levels over the 28000 CUP pressure level.

Every company I have looked at somewhere has a statement something to the effect of: "for use only with factory loaded ammunition of good quality" It don't matter who the mfg is or what the caliber or gauge, this statement comes out somewhere.

If you hand load and keep the loadings reasonable, as in not exceeding the maximum listed in manuals, there should be no problems. Of late though, there seems to be this kick of using duplex and triplex loads of mixing powders and so forth which I consider extremely dangerous because you can never control the way in which loads as these will react should they get tossed around and mechanically mix or chemically mix/degrade over time. I would assume most companies are going to make it more clear about pressure limits and using only factory loaded ammo in an attempt to protect themselves from law suits arising from unsafe loading practices as above. One must never forget the fact that if the bullet cannot get out of the muzzle fast enough, case, receiver and or bolt are going to go just as fast in the opposite direction which would be at one's head.

Years ago I had a malfuntion with a .223 load in an M-16. Never determined if it was an over or under load or possibly a partial bore obstruction (rapid fire prone with new US mil ammo) but the bolt did smash the receiver and twist out to the side. Now that resulted from a baby case pushing an itty bitty bullet. Multiply that by whatever to come into the 45-70 size... Just last year a good friend had a detonation in his 45 acp that blew out the barrel, slide and frame made of very high quality modern steel. Luckily no body damages but you can bet he was none too slow installing a powder level checker on his Dillon. This can be a dangerous game playing with what add up to being nothing more than little bombs if we allow it to happen either by error or on purpose.

Quite honestly, I see no reason why anyone would fool with multiplex loads. If whatever cratridge you're shooting doesn't have what you want, there are plenty of higher powder options to choose from that can be loaded safely. In the case of the 45-70, why not go up to the 404 Jeffery, 458 Lott or 460 Wby? Still not enough, you can move on up to the .50 BMG, plenty of these available now in semi and bolt action.

I've never loaded a single 45-70 with anything other than black powder myself and this new double looks to be right up my alley but I still would not choose it over my highwall for shooting perference. I'd buy one simply to prevent subjecting my beautiful highwall to extreme weather conditions. Really is a nice looking rifle, anyone know off hand where it's made?

I would guess that since the gun will handle the 60,000 psi of the .30-06 it will handle more than 28,000 psi in the .45-70. However, I wouldn't test that theory myself. ;)

Even at 28,000 psi, the .45-70 can drive a 400 gr bullet around 2000 fps. and a 500 gr around 1600. Those are certainly not weak loads!

I'm seriously considering getting one of these.

This rifle reminds me of the EAA double of a couple of years ago. The regulation via barrel screw is awfully familiar. Maybe Rem ripped off the device? Maybe they acquired the design? Maybe they're importing. Just sounds familiar. Wonder if there's a connection?

It is an EAA. They are one and the same. Remington is just going to handle the sales and distribution.

I would guess that since the gun will handle the 60,000 psi of the .30-06 it will handle more than 28,000 psi in the .45-70. However, I wouldn't test that theory myself. ;)

Even at 28,000 psi, the .45-70 can drive a 400 gr bullet around 2000 fps. and a 500 gr around 1600. Those are certainly not weak loads!

I'm seriously considering getting one of these.

Exactly. I suspect that the majority of people who turn their noses up at 28,000CUP .45-70 loads haven't fired too many of them, certainly not in light hunting rifles!

I'll be willing to bet they are using common parts so the only difference between the two is the bore and chamber size. This reduces production costs since the parts are common to both until they are bored and chambered. End result being a much thicker wall on the '06 chamber allowing for the higher operating pressure.

I would be suspect of using the high pressure rounds in a double rifle. Even the best made English rifles aren't typically chambered for the high intensity rounds, even so far as the English introduced twin "flanged" cartridges loaded to lower pressures of their rimless cousins. A double will shoot "off face" over time, which can only be accelerated by shooting higher pressure rounds.

Most double rifles today are intended to be loaded for cartridges generating 14-16 tons of pressure.

Glad to see the last two posts, I was starting to think I was the only one who thought it a bad idea to stick a Ruger #1 45-70 load in a shotgun action double rifle, betting that the factory reccomendation was only there to please lawyers.

I would imagine the issue here, like the thompson center contender, has to do with backthrust. Same type of action in both firearms.

The Thompson Contender will easily fire a high pressure round like the .223 Remington, but won't fire a round of similar pressure such as a .308 or 30/06 based casing. Sure the TC will fire the 45-70, but only with the milder loads. The factor in what is safe for that firearm is case head size coupled with pressure, I'd imagine it might be a similar equation with the Baikal (that's who makes these, same as EAA which will no longer be the importer) action, but on a larger scale. The 30-06 produces higher pressure, but has a smaller case head size than a 45-70. I'm not certain this is the case in what is or isn't safe in this rifle, but I'd bet it has something to do with it.

I know I wouldn't want to fire the full steam 45-70's out of a 7.5 rifle one way or the next. A 30-06 loaded with 220gr loads would probably provide all the penetration you could ask for anyway, especially if you're talking 200 yards and less with good bullets.

Ah, I hadn't thought about the backthrust. Good point! I stick to the 28,000 psi and lower loads in my Win. 1886s and they're plenty fo me!

If you will not the picture these guns do not come with a recoil pad. Really stiff loads are gonna beat you a little.

I've shot a few rifles...not near as many as many of the members here...but the most wicked thing I've ever sat behind was a Ruger #3 in 45-70 with the full power 500gr loads. Now I know this rifle might weigh a very little bit more and does not have the same buttplate, but I'm sure it would best be described as unpleasant.

The guy who owned that No. 3 would come away from the bench rest BLEEDING! Tough old guy(retired) to say the least, as he didn't stop until he had the load he wanted...as I recall it took the better part of a summer.