Hi, it is me again, and I am intersted in hunting deer and elk. I am saving money at the moment. But which caliber would you recomend for hunting deer and elk?

Hi, it is me again, and I am intersted in hunting deer and elk. I am saving money at the moment. But which caliber would you recomend for hunting deer and elk?

300 Win or 300 WSM would be my choice. :cool:

Despite the recent trend that you need a howitzer for deer and elk, a 270 Win or 30-06 works great for both.

If you like short action rifles a .308 would do nicely. If Long actions are the way you go it'd be hard to beet the good 'ole 30-06.

A 30-06 will have tons more bullet choices than the .308, but I don't feel that limited with my .308, 165gr speer gamekings for deer and 180gr partitions if I get the chance to elk hunt. Some would say you'll need more gun than 308 for elk. I have no real elk hunting experience, just what I have read and heard from others. So do what I did Go buy a 45/70 and then you will have an up close brush gun for the deer and a nice timber rifle for short range elk hunting. 540gr hammerheads will knock 'em sideways. :D

Elk can be a tough animal to kill. Certainly a 308, 270, 30-06 will kill well if you are careful with your shot placement, but the added energy of the 7mm Rem mag, 300 magnums, 8mm mag and 338's can make a big difference if your only shot is not an optimal shot and need to reach thru muscle and bone to a vital area.

I know this doesn't ever happen to hunters, but I've seen folks that rather than wait for a perfect shot do take a shot at a big bull quartering away from them at a dead run rather than loose the money they have paid for that "elk hunt of a lifetime.

When this happens that 270 or 308 may not have enough energy to reach thru to a vital area, though new bullet technology has helped with that tremendously.

I've also seen folks try to shoot elk to far away, their big animals and without a range finder it is easy to misjudge the distance.

There are lots of folks on this forum that kill their elk all the time with 270's and even 243's. They are ethical sportsman that would pass up a hundred 7 point bulls rather than risk wounding one.

There are folks that cling to the idea that any gun that fires a round down range and is legal in the area they are hunting is ok and that may be so.

There are folks that haven't hunted elk and simply don't know better, elk arn't no big deer partner.

Problem is sometimes that means a wounded animal. Perhaps that was an accident and the argument that the biggest gun in the world can wound game with poor shot placement certianly is true.

When I started hunting elk 45 years ago there was a lot more elk, and a lot less pressure hunting them. Elk hunting was not the big business it it now. You filled your tag so the kids could eat and a nice spike or fat cow was usually better eaten meat anyway.

The quest for record book animals was a laughing matter to most folks. Hunting wasn't the sport industry it has been developed into.

I would rather see a fella hunt elk with a 270, 308 or any calibre he could consistantly shoot well rather than one of the "magnums" that he puts shots all over the place with because he hasn't the time or temperment to learn to shoot well.

Friends of mine whom guide hunters all agree on that. I and them also like to see them used cartridges and calibres that will assure an anchoring shot if they can handle one of the larger calibre guns.

I whole heartedly agree with you faucettb.

As many in this forum know already ;) I would go after elk with no less than a 30-06. I also know people that go after elk with a .243. BUT there are too many variables. If you can handle the recoil (I obviously can at 6'3' and 250 lbs :D ) I'd go with a magnum in the 7mm or 300 variety.

Trigger time is what counts tho. The more time you spend shooting your new rifle, no matter what configuration you get, the more confidence you'll have to make the right decision when the opportunity presents itself.

Where the heck is Peck anyway??

ok thx for your informativ answers. I think purchasing a rilfe in 300 win mag would be a good idea.


ps: which bullet weight and bullet type in 300 win mag or 30-06 would you recomend for hunting elk?

For the '06 180gr and up. How is your deer and elk hunting going to be split up? 50/50 or more one or the other, that might influence what you should choose. For me it is 90% deer with the chance for an elk hunt in the next 2-3 years, so I shoot a .308. The 30-06 has been getting it done for 100years on elk sized game. With the introduction of today's premium bullets loaded hot in "light Mag" rounds the performance it really stepped up from what it was even 25 years ago. Just choose a good bullet, get good optics, and most importantly spend a lot of time at the range firing from field positions.

-Matt

The 300 Win Mag is a great gun, my dad had one and had great results. A 180 grain quality bullet such as a Nosler Accubond or Speer Grand Slam or any number of others would do fine. If you don't reload, they are also in factory loads from Winchester or Federal.

The 300 Win Mag is a great choice for both deer and elk my other choice would be 7MM Remington mag or 7MM ultra mag. Theres lot of other choices but these will do the ticket nicely.

Hoeram :D

I'm an out-of-the-closet magnum fan. I see lots of print on shooting forums chastizing people who own magnum chambered guns. I don't understand it as the negative words don't flow the other way toward those who own more traditional chambered guns.....must be belt envy. I have both a 300 Win Mag and a 7mm Rem Mag (<8 lbs w/scope).......super cartridges....I can load them up or down to my liking, can't go up to magnum class performance with a standard cartridge. I also favor the heavy-for-caliber bullets for both. 200 and 220 grains for the 300 and 175 grains for the 7mm. I shoot them regularly. On the light side, 165 grains for the 300 and 140 grains for the 7mm.

Do those of you who own and shoot magnum cartridges think they were hard to master? Yeah, they kick a little from the bench but I don't think they are difficult to use proficiently.

To the point about elk and deer. The operative word being....and. Many 30 caliber (and other) cartridges will work well but if you really have to reach out and touch something go with the magnum. A person who handloads can go up and down the power scale with a 338 too.

Another interesting choice if you have a source for ammo is a 9.3X62.

Am basically a mid-caliber fan (.25, .264., .284), but must own up to having a 7mm RM and a 7mm Dakota in the vaults, along with a .375 Win and a 45-70. :p

Where the heck is Peck anyway??

Peck is a small community 1.5 miles off highway 12 that runs from Lewiston idaho to Missoula Montana. It is 30 miles East of Lewiston and 12 miles West of Orofino.

I live darn near next to the Clearwater River, one of the best Steelhead streams in the country. The North fork of that river had a dam put up quite a few years ago that back up between 55 and 70 miles of a river that runs out of the Rocky mountians with no towns or anyone living on it. The water is 99 percent pure and clear as crystel.

By Highway 12 I am 180 miles from Missoula. Inbetween is the spine of the Rocky mountians and some of the best elk and deer hunting country and some of the most isolated in the US.

The following pix are the Clearwater river 2 miles from my house. Lewiston Idaho at the head of Hells Canyon of the Snake River, The deepest canyon in the US, An early morning view from my workshop window above my reloading bench and looking across the canyon from my front porch is the best description of where I live I can give anyone. By the way my 12 year old grandaughter took the rainbow pix off our front porch.

Wow, Bob, lovely place. :)
Australia's plenty pretty in parts but not lush like that.

One querie about the 300 Win Mag though.
agent00, what have you used before?
In fact, what are you using at the moment?
Are you prepared for the increased recoil?
It's a sensible consideration.
As these guys say, elk are a different animal to deer.
A 260 Rem, 6.5x55, 25-06 or 7mm-08 are all quite suitable for most deer.
Do you need all that much gun straight away or do you intend to hunt both animals real soon?
Perhaps you could even afford a second rifle?
I'm not saying you have to.
Just beware of the "single-gun-theory". ;)

Last Elk I took was at 80 Yards with a 38-55 B/P cartridge 1893 Marlin, I don't see any reason for Me to take long shots due to these old eyes of mine, so a 255 grain cast works just fine. Besides I was hunting Deer, and the Elk was a target of opportunity.

When I was younger I used to hunt Colorado between Fraser and Tabernash with a 7X61 Sharp and Hart with 175 grainers, as I got older I went to the lighter recoiling calibers for most of my hunting. (6.5X55, 7X57, 30-30. .357 Mag., 38-55, 41 Mag., and .44 Mag or .444 Marlin).

Lee L.

@kombi1976 this will be my first own rifle, but I have shot with an 7,62x 51 rifle 5 times; (or 308 win, I am from austria and we call this catridge 7,62x51 ;) .

Wow, Bob, lovely place. :)
Australia's plenty pretty in parts but not lush like that.

One querie about the 300 Win Mag though.
agent00, what have you used before?
In fact, what are you using at the moment?
Are you prepared for the increased recoil?
It's a sensible consideration.
As these guys say, elk are a different animal to deer.
A 260 Rem, 6.5x55, 25-06 or 7mm-08 are all quite suitable for most deer.
Do you need all that much gun straight away or do you intend to hunt both animals real soon?
Perhaps you could even afford a second rifle?
I'm not saying you have to.
Just beware of the "single-gun-theory". ;)

Good morning kombi 1976

Here is some of the reasoning for my rifle selections

Since 1979 I have shot an 8mm Remington Magnum. I shoot a Seirra 220 grain Boattail at 2980 or 3060 fps depending on which powder I'm using.

This load shoots as fast as the 300 Win mag with a 180 grainer, but carries more energy. With the advent of the Ultra-mags and the 378 Weatherby's necked to 30 and 338 calibre it is overshadowed now, but still a very potent elk round.

It has accounted for a bunch of elk in Idaho and moose and two browns in Alaska.

Folks here in Idaho do say I'm overgunned, but the deer and elk don't seem to mind.

I do have to say that some of the modern bonded core bullets are changing the outlook on non-magnum calibres for game like elk. Personnaly I like the large bullet at a good velocity. It does not seem to tear up meat like the 270, - 06 class of cartridges with light bullets at high velocity.

The 8 mag is not the only rifle I hunt with. I also have
243 Winchester
280 Remington
308 Remington
41 Magnum Pistol
44 Magnum Pistol
22 lr Pistol and rifle

So I am not biased to the magnums, I just think it makes sense to use a rifle capable of stopping a big game animal if your stuck with a not so optimum shot.

I firmly believe that you can never own enough guns and I think that your much better served by shooting a gun you can control than opting for a magnum and not shooting it well.

Most of the outfitters I know would rather have a hunter bring a 308 that he can shoot well rather than a 30-378 that, even though has much more power, he can't hit the broad side of a barn with becuase he is afraid of the gun.

@kombi1976 this will be my first own rifle, but I have shot with an 7,62x 51 rifle 5 times; (or 308 win, I am from austria and we call this catridge 7,62x51 ;) .
Well, you may get a bit of a shock from the 300 Win then.
Perhaps a 30-06 may serve you better.
As I've said before you can always buy another more powerful rifle in the future.
If you must have the 300 make sure the rifle isn't too light has a good recoil pad.
My friends Sako Hunter stainless/synthetic in 300 left me bruised for a week! :mad:
It was really light and only had a quarter inch hard rubber pad on the butt. :( :eek:

Bob, I love 8mm although at the mo I an 8x57 myself.
I'm going to pick up some of the Woodleigh 250gn RNSN Weldcore bullets for it and have a play.
I also anticipate buying a 280 Rem early next year.
BTW, am I wrong or did you pick up a 7x57 earlier in the year for your son?
If so, how have you gone with those loads for it?

Bob, I love 8mm although at the mo I an 8x57 myself.
I'm going to pick up some of the Woodleigh 250gn RNSN Weldcore bullets for it and have a play.
I also anticipate buying a 280 Rem early next year.


I've been looking at those big Woodleigh 250's, I'm a little worried about how there are constructed. I can push them a lot faster than an 8X57. Most bullets designed for the 8X57 don't seem to hold up well at higher velocities. If they did they would be great for the big bears and elk.

I picked up a 280 Remington mountian rifle this spring. It's got one of Simmons ATEC 2.8 to 10 compact scopes on it. It tops out at just over 7 pounds loaded and ready to go.

I'm going to try some of Hornedy's 7mm 139 grain bonded core boat tail bullets behind 4831 on deer this year. I'll put the 8 mag away and do a December muzzle loader hunt for elk this year. Got that muzzle loader sitting there gathering dust.

I've been looking at those big Woodleigh 250's, I'm a little worried about how there are constructed. I can push them a lot faster than an 8X57. Most bullets designed for the 8X57 don't seem to hold up well at higher velocities. If they did they would be great for the big bears and elk.

I picked up a 280 Remington mountian rifle this spring. It's got one of Simmons ATEC 2.8 to 10 compact scopes on it. It tops out at just over 7 pounds loaded and ready to go.

I'm going to try some of Hornedy's 7mm 139 grain bonded core boat tail bullets behind 4831 on deer this year. I'll put the 8 mag away and do a December muzzle loader hunt for elk this year. Got that muzzle loader sitting there gathering dust.
From all I've read about Woodleighs, the bigger the game and the more power you use the more effective they are.
I'm sending some Woodleigh bullets to a friend in Canada as he's just designed his own 8mm wildcat that resembles the Rem Mag so we'll find out how they work there.
I certainly have plenty of faith in the Woodleighs.
It's the same design they use for the other bullets of similar cal and weight and they perform superbly in those applications.
I guess it depends on the range your shooting.
I do like Sierras though.
I use 90gn GameKings in my 303/25 and although cartridge and purpose is far different(roos at 2700fps) they're really accurate and reliable.

Due to my limited funds, at least at this time of my life(young family ;) ), I'll be getting the 280 Rem in the H&R/NEF Handi rifle which actually has a 26" barrel.
Should be able to screw a few more fps out of it. ;)

And as for knocking over elk with blackpowder, I read about a guy that knocked one down up close with a Martini Henry chambered for 577/450.
When down like a sack of shhh...........sugar. :D

The 30-06 loaded with 180gr Noslers works just fine for elk. I've used this combination for years. My other equally great elk rifle is the 7mm mag loaded with 175gr Trophy Bonded. If you haven't shot the 300Win Mag, and aren't used to heavy recoil, it'd be a good idea to try one out before buying. Recoil can be stiff.

From all I've read about Woodleighs, the bigger the game and the more power you use the more effective they are.
I'm sending some Woodleigh bullets to a friend in Canada as he's just designed his own 8mm wildcat that resembles the Rem Mag so we'll find out how they work there.
I certainly have plenty of faith in the Woodleighs.
It's the same design they use for the other bullets of similar cal and weight and they perform superbly in those applications.
I guess it depends on the range your shooting.
I do like Sierras though.
I use 90gn GameKings in my 303/25 and although cartridge and purpose is far different(roos at 2700fps) they're really accurate and reliable.

Due to my limited funds, at least at this time of my life(young family ;) ), I'll be getting the 280 Rem in the H&R/NEF Handi rifle which actually has a 26" barrel.
Should be able to screw a few more fps out of it. ;)

And as for knocking over elk with blackpowder, I read about a guy that knocked one down up close with a Martini Henry chambered for 577/450.
When down like a sack of shhh...........sugar. :D


That 26 inch barrel should give you volicity close to a 7 mag. Mine has a 22 inch tube. I got it sighted in last week and got right an an inch at a hundred. Didn't take the chrono so don't know the velocity. Used the top load in my Hornedy manual and dropped 10 percent. Very accurate load.

I've never had any experience with the woodleigh bullets, but I've been looking at some reports on them and they do seem like an excellent bullet. I really like large for the calibre bullets and might try a box of these.

The only bullet I've used in my 8 mag has been the sierra gameking 220 grain boattail. I bought 500 at a gun shop that was going out of business about 20 years ago and am still working on them. It takes a long time with the big mag to shoot up that many.

I shoot a Remington 700 inline muzzle loader with a Lee .54 Calibre 425 grain improved minnie with 150 grains of Hodgens triple seven behind it. It is very accurate and should make a good elk combo.

I'm gonna take it out the the range next week and see what it's doing over the chrono. Last year I put a scope on it (which isn't allowed here for hunting season) and got a three shot 1.5 inch group at a hundred. I was very impressed. I put a set of fire sights on it which will make it much easier to shoot for my tired old eyes.

I'm gonna limit this rifle to 125 yards as that is about as far as I can shoot it accuratly enough from field positions. If I can't get any closer the elk's gonna be free.

this is the 280 and the muzzle loader. I'm restocking the muzzle loader in wood this summer, just don't like the plastic stocks Remington makes.

Well, I'm hoping the extra 4" really makes a difference.
The Handirifles have a bit of a reputation of accuracy outside their price range so once the trigger is massaged to a decent pressure it should shoot well with a decent scope.
Your 280 looks really nice though.
And I like the bench rest........cool car jack. :D
I can understand why it's taken you a while to get through those bullets.
8mm Rem Mag isn't a cartridge with which I care to punch a 100 rounds every Sunday afternoon.
Those groups for the muzzle loader are good.
And you're right.....the plastic stock looks hokey.
I've actually had a chance to fire a traditional .50 cal muzzle loader with the long brass tube sights.
Good fun.
BTW, how does that bolt action muzzle loader work?
I've seen the break open ones T/C and H&R/NEF make and I'm familiar with how they work but I'm mystified as to how you make the bolt gun work.

Oh, and to get back to the original point of this thread, I heartily endorse getting a 7mm Rem Mag rather than a 300.
Plenty of premium and standard factory loads, lots of bullet choice and good performance.

- 180grn Swift/Scirocco-Bonded[any-deer]...

- 180grn Swift/A-Frame-PTD-SP[any-deer-OR-ELK]...

- 220grn Core-Lokt SP[anything that can eat you in deer or Elk territory]...

- All three loaded by Remington...in GOOD-OL....30-06Springfield.

- AND...you can deploy all three projectiles to their common-sense-usable-range-[and velocity]-in a 20-22-inch barrel.

Hey faucettb, post some more detailed pichers of that cool bench rest. It's a work of art!!

Well, I'm hoping the extra 4" really makes a difference.
The Handirifles have a bit of a reputation of accuracy outside their price range so once the trigger is massaged to a decent pressure it should shoot well with a decent scope.
Your 280 looks really nice though.
And I like the bench rest........cool car jack. :D
I can understand why it's taken you a while to get through those bullets.
8mm Rem Mag isn't a cartridge with which I care to punch a 100 rounds every Sunday afternoon.
Those groups for the muzzle loader are good.
And you're right.....the plastic stock looks hokey.
I've actually had a chance to fire a traditional .50 cal muzzle loader with the long brass tube sights.
Good fun.
BTW, how does that bolt action muzzle loader work?
I've seen the break open ones T/C and H&R/NEF make and I'm familiar with how they work but I'm mystified as to how you make the bolt gun work.

Oh, and to get back to the original point of this thread, I heartily endorse getting a 7mm Rem Mag rather than a 300.
Plenty of premium and standard factory loads, lots of bullet choice and good performance.


kombi1976
The 700ML is one of the "inline" styles of muzzle loaders. It uses a Remington 700 short action with the nice fast locktime and adjustable trigger of the 700. It cocks the striker just like a bolt action. You then place a cap on the nipple on the face of the breach plug. When released the firing pin has a cup which strikes the cap and fires the gun. I use Musket caps which work better with the triple seven powder. It's loaded from the front just like all muzzle loaders. The breach plug can be removed for cleaning.

Mine is a Stainless 54 Calibre with a fast twist barrel to stabalize sabots and minnie balls. Surprisingly it shoots well with a patched ball.

There are a bunch of these rifles on the market made by Ruger, Knight, Savage and more. Remington just stopped production of this model this year. The stock is Remingtons black plastic and you can actually twist the forarm without a lot of trying. I'm putting a Richards Micro-fit premium walnut in their classic style on it this summer.

My hunting partner of a lot of years shoots the 7mm Rem mag. He's getting 2950 with a 175 grain Speer grandslam over my chrono. This is a very good elk and deer load and has gotten him an elk every year for the past six years, except for last year when medical problems kept him from hunting.

As for the shooting rest with the Jack, I basically copied that from a pix of one of Cabelas. I wanted one of the Lead sleds for the high recoiling rifles, but just couldn't see the money. Built one out of scraps in my workshop for about 15 bucks US. it is heavy at around 45-50 pounds and I add a 25 pound bag of shot to the tray. Makes the big 8 mag feel like a 222.

I have a couple of the 8mm mags, one is magna-ported and feels much like an 06. The other is a Remington custom shop gun and has not been ported. My son now has layed claim to than one so he's been shooting it for the last four years.

I've looked at the handi-rifles but have never owned one. I do have a Ruger #1B in 243 which is my varmit rifle. It has a Weaver 2-10 on it for winter coyote and fall deer and a Tasco 8-32 target scope for spring ground squrril hunting.

Cool pics faucettb. Now I know where that is . Been there onct a long long long time ago.

I agree about loading down magnum cases (I don't for myself) You can still get excellent accuraccy too, with some tinkering.

Ok, thx again for your answers, and I think I will start with an 30-06 rifle first, and mayby next year I will buy an more powerfull rifle (300 win mag or 7mm remington mag).

If you have a 30-06, I don't think you necessarily need a 300 or 7mm Mag as there's not huge power increase and I don't think for the ranges you'll be hunting, you will see any noticable difference between an elk hit with an 180 grain bullet from a 300 mag vs the 30-06. Personally if I had an '06, for a power increase I'd probably go to a 338 Win Mag or maybe even the new 325 WSM. Another thought is you can maybe go with a 300 Win Mag and get the reduced recoil loads....

Agent- just stick with the 30-06 and get good with it, learn what it will do. You will not be disappointed. Spend the money on good ammo, find out what brand of ammo your rifle shoots most accurately. Factory soft points for deer, like core- loks or power points in 150gr or more, and Noslers, Bear Claws, Sirroccos etc in 180- 200 gr for elk. as somebody mentioned, an all around good one is 180gr- 220gr Core-loks.

I'd not stop till I got to the .338, once you are familiar with the .30-06. In fact that's exactly what I did....

There isn't anything wrong with a .300 or 7 mag, but you've hardly bought anything, realistically, in terms of improved performance. And realistically, the .338 doesn't even add a lot till you get over 225 grain bullets, my opinion.

Of course, some folks would start directly with the 7mag or .300 mag, and that's fine too..... they'll all do the job when used appropriately.

I'm with MikeG.
If you start with a 30-06 you may as well go up and the 338 Win Mag is a good step.
I don't believe I'm saying this but I think the 325 WSM is actually a good solution for someone who already uses a .270, 7mm Rem Mag or 7mm-08 and wants to go heavier but isn't keen on .30 cal.
Kinda like a 8mm Rem Mag without the hassle of a magnum length action.
While the .325(8mm in reality) probably hits a little harder the bullet weight differences between .30 cal and 8mm cal are minimal.
Either go a .338 or consider getting something really interesting like the .375 WSM wildcat.
As far as I'm aware dies are available and if you're reloading you'll soon find out how to form the dies for yourself and join the growing ranks of reloaders.
Of course, you could buy a .375 H&H and be done with it.
But that's a little way down the track and the '06 will do you fine for the moment. ;)

I'm with MikeG.
If you start with a 30-06 you may as well go up and the 338 Win Mag is a good step.
I don't believe I'm saying this but I think the 325 WSM is actually a good solution for someone who already uses a .270, 7mm Rem Mag or 7mm-08 and wants to go heavier but isn't keen on .30 cal.
Kinda like a 8mm Rem Mag without the hassle of a magnum length action.
While the .325(8mm in reality) probably hits a little harder the bullet weight differences between .30 cal and 8mm cal are minimal.
Either go a .338 or consider getting something really interesting like the .375 WSM wildcat.
As far as I'm aware dies are available and if you're reloading you'll soon find out how to form the dies for yourself and join the growing ranks of reloaders.
Of course, you could buy a .375 H&H and be done with it.
But that's a little way down the track and the '06 will do you fine for the moment. ;)

Morning kombi

I still havn't figued out the "hassle" of a magnum length action. Mabe you could help me out here. I have bolt guns (all Remingtons) in 243, 308, 280 Rem and 8mm Rem mag and when I'm out shooting them I really can't tell much difference in action length. I can see the difference when I put the guns side by side, but in actual operation???

Raise the bolt, pull back, push forward turn down. Once on the shoulder they all work exactly the same. I have yet to find one that won't stop when it comes back, nor turn down when it goes forward and on your shoulder the slight difference in bolt length does not seem to make any difference at least to me.

Got a friend whom is into Winchester Lever guns. He's got one in 45 cal that seems longer than his 30-30 and set side by side the 45 appears to have a longer action length. I've shot both and again can't tell the difference in shooting.

I got to tell ya that I am perplexed.

Is this something that the gun manufactures press to sell guns or is it something that actually is? I know for sure that action length can effect the finished weight of a gun, but when I was building custom lightweight guns I found several ways to make a lightweight gun with about any length action the customer wanted.

Ok guys you can beat up on me now.

Well on the subject of action length, I'm sure that is going to be a person by person deal as to how well each if not both fit the shooter. For me the only time it has made a big difference was when I was shoping for my 1st BLR. I wanted one in .270. I handled a .270 and 30-06 in the store, throwing it to my shoulder quickly and taking aim, it was feeling ok, then the clerk handed me a .308 to try out. Man what a difference, the long action just didn't fit me as well as the short aciton did. It really doesn't make sense as I am 6'4 275, a large fella that you would think the longer action would fit better. All my deer rifles before the BLR were long action, an Abolt in .280 a BAR in .270 and a 30-06 03A3. I walked away with the SA .308 and it became my new favorite deer gun just because it fit me so well, points naturally like a good shotgun. JM.02

You like to wind me up, don't you, Bob?! :p
What I actually meant is that a .338 Win Mag is built on a standard length action and since far more rifles are built on this length action it's easier to obtain.
You better than most would know that really only Remington chambers the 8mm Rem Mag and I presume it wouldn't be in their standard production run.
Action length in the field means zip to me but the fact remains that rifles built for .375 H&H, 8mm Rem Mag and other long magnum cartridges tend to be more expensive because of that fact.
Happy now? :rolleyes: :D

ok thx again for your answers

You like to wind me up, don't you, Bob?! :p
What I actually meant is that a .338 Win Mag is built on a standard length action and since far more rifles are built on this length action it's easier to obtain.
You better than most would know that really only Remington chambers the 8mm Rem Mag and I presume it wouldn't be in their standard production run.
Action length in the field means zip to me but the fact remains that rifles built for .375 H&H, 8mm Rem Mag and other long magnum cartridges tend to be more expensive because of that fact.
Happy now? :rolleyes: :D

I'm sorry Kombi, I didn't mean to wind you up. I just hear so much controversy about the difference between these actions. Like you in the field under shooting conditions 1/2 inch bolt stroke means absolutly nothing. It does bring out some good discussions about action lengths though.

Your correct about the 264 Win mag, 7mm Rem mag, 300 Win mag, 338, 458 Win mag being built on the basic 06 size action. This was done to give American shooters a "magnum" velocity cartridge at a reasonable priced alternative to the expensive Weatherbys.

Back in the 60's you basically had a choice of a short action, 06 length action or the expense of a 300, 375 H&H action. My first magnum was a 308 Norma built on a commercial 98 mouser action. In the states actions longer than that either ment the Weatherbys or guns designed for large calibre such as the 375 H&H.

I can remember when you had a choice of a 30-06 length or a 375 H&H length extremly expensive actions. Now with super short, short, long, magnum, magnum long, Weatherby magnum extra long actons being produced it sometimes makes my head swim.

It must be a nightmare for the factories producing all these different actions. In today's gun market I'm sure that your absolutly right about the cost going up with action length.

When Remington brought out the ultra-mags they designed them to feed thru the 375 H&H sized action so have retained the costs of the rest of their rifles. Thats the same action used for the 7mm STW, 8mm Rem mag and 375 H&H mag. I can't imagine the tooling costs to Winchester by adding the souper short cartridges to their inventory.

I'm not sure how many folks besides the ultra expensive Weatherbys are producing actions and rifles for the ultra-sized 378 cases necked up and down. I'm sure there are some custom manufactures doing so at prices I just can't emagine.

When I was younger I got infected with the magnum craze. All those pipsqueak runds like the 270, 06 and so on were just not capable of taking big game as well as a "Magnum". Once I cought that desease even though I fought it it carried on a long time.

Looking back there probably wasn't any game, excluding some big bears in Alaska, I couldn't have killed just as well with standard cartridges. In fact there are a nice 308 and a 280 Remington in the gun case waiting for this fall's hunting season.

In 1978 and 79 I and a friend did a pack in Dahl sheep hunt in Alaska. I built a beautiful 264 Win mag in 1977 for that hunt. About two weeks before the hunt I got offered so much money for that gun that I just couldn't turn it down.

I ended up making the longest shot of my life on a dahl sheep with a 22 inch barreled 30-06. I got to tell you when I turned that 2-7 Leapold to the top power I sure wished for more gun.

My hunting partner, who was shooting a blown out 300 H&H mag and I both got our sheep, thank goodness, but it spurred my magnum quest on hence the reason I went to the 8 mag.

Boy that was a long convulated apology.

It wasn't an apology I wanted. :p
Anyway, you gave us an interesting review of magnum rifles with a good anecdote to boot. :)
And don't apologise. ;)
If we can't wind each other up in well meaning good humour now and again what fun is there? :D

It wasn't an apology I wanted. :p
Anyway, you gave us an interesting review of magnum rifles with a good anecdote to boot. :)
And don't apologise. ;)
If we can't wind each other up in well meaning good humour now and again what fun is there? :D

Thanks kombi

Sometimes I offend folks with my immatation of superior knowledge. I really love guns and shooting and other than Smith & Wessons armorers course everything is home learned. I can be mistaken and often am.

I ran a small part time gunsmith business for 27 years. It paid for my hunting and fishing until I got retired a year and a half ago.

Did some metal work, but most if it was stockwork and cleaning up S&W revolvers. Built some ultra-light Remington 700 based sheep rifles and some Savage 99 284-375 guide rifles.

Growing up and living here in Idaho has given me an oppurtunity to hunt, fish and shoot in a place where such pursuits are not frowned upon like in some over populated areas that exist in our country. Especially nice was the five years I spent in Alaska thanks to the US Army.

Anyway anytime you need an expert.

Love the cartoon. :p
And from someone who reloading is a small miracle and who can really damage things far worse with the aid of tools than all by myself, I'm quite jealous of your gunsmithing abilities.
The day I changed the starter motor in my VW bus I was very proud....didn't cut myself, lose vital parts or anything. :D
But unless I went through some significant education I can't see me messing with something as potentially dangerous as gunsmithing.
It's akin to finding the hole in gas pipe in a dark space by looking around for it with a lighted match. :eek: :rolleyes:
Plus it requires a lathe and some other tools I both don't have and don't know how to use.
Meanwhile, good luck to you, Bob, and keep keeping us on our toes. ;)

Every year elk get tougher to kill. Shots are also much longer and more difficult. I know this is true because I read it in a modern hunting magazine.

You must buy the latest and greatest magnum rifle with best ever scope. Don't neglect to buy the latest range finder. Don't be concerned about being out of shape and overweight. You can buy enough equipment to get the trophy elk of your dreams.

Believe this nonsense and you're definately a great consumer.
TR

Every year elk get tougher to kill. Shots are also much longer and more difficult. I know this is true because I read it in a modern hunting magazine.

You must buy the latest and greatest magnum rifle with best ever scope. Don't neglect to buy the latest range finder. Don't be concerned about being out of shape and overweight. You can buy enough equipment to get the trophy elk of your dreams.

You're hunting the same elk I am then. :D

TR and kombi

You guys keep up this kind of talk your going to have poor old Elmer Kieth turning over in his grave and probably put Craig Boddington in his.

One thing for sure, at least here in Idaho our elk population is not near what it was 20 years ago. Just that fact alone is prompting folks to shoot at longer ranges and take shots that they would have passed up before. I guess that's what is prompting somewhat the move to magnum large bore rifles.

You don't really need lame excuses like less elk to justify buying or building yet another large cal magnum, do you, Bob? ;) :D

the answer to the question is

30.06. simple as that IMO.

You don't really need lame excuses like less elk to justify buying or building yet another large cal magnum, do you, Bob? ;) :D

Your certianly right about that, look at the sales of the Lazaronii's and the Rem ultra-mags. My buddy next door, an avid hunter, just bought a 300 ultra-mag and swears it's the next best think to bread and butter. He actually refered to it as a laser in the woods.

I've talked to a lot of hunters here that think that the big magnums are going to make up for their lack of shooting skills. there talking about making those thousand yard shots and, well on and on. Results are a lot more game is getting wounded and lost.

Before I retired I worked as a volunteer range officer and some of the folks that used the range were scary. You hardly ever saw anybody shoot from field positions.

I'm sure they must have thought that what they did off a benchrest was actually going to happen in the field. Perhaps that bench rest was going to pop up out of the ground when thay saw game and that deer or elk was going to stand still broadside waiting for them to shoot, even have one of those glow in the dark targets printed on it vital zones.

In reality most game does not pose while were shooting and often we have to take a shot from positions that do not help with accuracy. Nine out of ten hunters I see really have no idea how accurate they are with their rifle in the field. Most have never tried shooting at a target from standing, sitting or kneeling positions. This can be quite a learning and humbling experience.

I no longer pursue that magnum craze and though I have killed game aways past 600 yards I'm trying to keep my shots reasonably sane anymore. This year I'm using a 280 Rremington for deer and if I see an elk will, if a good shot presents itself, pop it with this underpowered pipsqueak.

Well my granddaughter has the 22's loaded in the old pickup and is bugging me to taker her up to the gravel pit and do some shooting so's I'll get back to you guys later.