Hello from Scotland~

Check out the link below of calibres and more importantly "bullet weights" legal for shooting deer in Scotland. I think it will surprise many of our American cousins ?

I think you will agree this document goes to show that the people who make our laws dont know what there talking about :mad:

http://www.dcs.gov.uk/BestPractice/gd_fballisticschart.htm


Englander

Englander - Very interesting. What kind of tea were they drinking? A 180 grain Savage .300 load is illegal, along with a 220 grainer in .30-06, yet any weight in .338 Win Mag or .375 H & H is legal? What's a "roe" anyway, male or female? Thanks

Roe deer are about the size of Key West deer if I remember correctly. And their deer is the Red Stag (similiar to our Elk but smaller body weight and size).

CD

They allow the 200gr. in 444 and not the 240 and 265? Englander, how many guns are you allowed? That chart would cut down on what I could hunt with without a doubt.

I don't know what kind of tea they were drinking, but it looks like they were also smoking some funny weed to go along with it. I have never seen a list with so many stupid restrictions. A 220 grain 30-06 illegal while a 55 grain accelerator 30-06 is legal??? A .600 nitro Express with a 900 grain bullet illegal, while it is used to stop an elephant in Africa?? Their rational doesn't make sense.

Lee L.

Yikes! What a messed up nightmare!

I looked at the list, and was trying to make sense out of their regulations.

.30-30 Win is only legal if using 110g bullets!
.30-06 Govt. Illegal if using 220g bullets!

I thought well, ok, perhaps they are worried about over-penetration and the possibility of stray bullets doing harm after exiting game.... until I saw that 50 BMG is legal..... go figure! I thought our game laws needed a Philladelphia Lawyer to unravel them..... I guess that's what happens when pencil pushers make decisions outside their scope of experience.

how many deer or roe have to line up in a row(no pun intended) to take down with a 50bmg?
mike

From that same website...
"A legal rifle for the killing of deer in Scotland must conform to a minimum specification combining bullet weight, muzzle velocity and muzzle energy. The exact requirements, laid down in the Deer Firearms Act (Scotland) Order 1985, are stated as follows :
For shooting deer of any species, a bullet of an expanding type designed to deform in a predictable manner of not less than 100 grains (6.48 grams) with a muzzle velocity of not less than 2,450 feet per second (746.76 metres per second) and a muzzle energy of not less than 1,750 foot pounds (2,373 joules) must be used."

I guess common sense isn’t common.

Well...it is a mess. But on that list of "legal" rounds are some good choices; are some pretty poor choices listed as well, but at least you could pick a legal round that was sadisfactory if you used common sense (unlike the people who put together the list).

Haven't a clue why some rounds are illegal.

Some rounds are illegal simply because of numbers cut-offs. They must have figured that rifles with sub 2450fps muzzle velocities had too much of a rainbow-like trajectory.

It's still pretty stupid, though. I have no idea where their numbers come from. I mean they list many loads with lighter bullets at velocities lower than heavier ones. What? Is there any research at all going into this, or do they just take what Joe Schmoe's chrony says for 1 shot?

amndouglas

how many deer or roe have to line up in a row(no pun intended) to take down with a 50bmg?
mike

All of them! :eek:

On a serious note.... I would be highly upset if I could not kill deer and hogs in Texas with my 'ineffective' :rolleyes: .35 Rem with 200 grain bullets! What a load of fertilizer.....

On the plus side... all you need to find is ONE empty factory ammo box showing the "correct" bullet weight.... and keep it with you at all times. I highly doubt that whatever passes for a game warden there, will be lugging a chronograph and electronic scale around in the field :D

Hello from Scotland~

Yes common sense :p

I think the basic idea is flat shooting calibres/bullets so even the fat once a year paying guest cant miss ! Probably been looking at long range 500 yard plus tradjectory charts :p thing is we are taught 200 yards should be max range for humane deer stalking although most of us seldom even shot that far do we.

Combat driver is right regarding size of Red and Roe deer

Dr A If you only hunt on farm land you will get hassle trying to own more than say .22 .223 .270 police are happy enough with this although often they would rather have a .22 and a .243 for both fox and deer :mad:

Marshall i find the .50 BMG very funny ........ i know for a FACT if you asked for one for deer shooting you would NOT be granted if that goes for .338 9.3mm .375 458 ...possibly as a "second" reason it might be granted. i.e first reason African big game hunting.

Example i sold a .22 Hornet and .243 and asked for a .308 police told me "NO" as i only had Roe deer they said .308 was a Red calibre :confused: ............however i was told "if" i asked for a .308 for target shooting joined a club i would then be allowed to used a .308 for fox and Roe deer on the same farm :p swings and round abouts ....... now im a club member if can have just about anything :D

"Over kill " is a word we here allot i think the police like using it, they would have you use the minimum legal calibre i.e .243 win :rolleyes:

But like Mike says............. our game wardens dont carry chrono's ...... in fact we dont have game wardens :p 99.9% of hunting is carried out on private land ...

Ive never heard of anyone being prosecuted for having bullets that are too heavy ;)

Englander

Here are some of our favorite and "much talked about" cartridges that would be considered ILLEGAL:

.348 Winchester, 250gr, 2350 fps/3060 fpe.
.356 Winchester, 220gr & 250 gr, 2160 fps/2591 fpe.
.358 Winchester, 250 gr, 2250 fps/2810 fpe.
.35 Whelen, 250 gr, 2400 fps/3197 fpe.
.375 Winchester 200 gr, 2200 fps/2105 fpe.
38-55 Winchester, All Illegal. Velocity under 2450 fps.
.416 Remington Magnum, 400gr, 2400 fps/5115 fpe.
45-70 Gov't. All Illegal. Velocity under 2450 fps.
.458 Winchester, 500 gr, 2130 fps/5140 fpe.

I was not aware that I would be under-gunned in Scotland while hunting for red deer with a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 loaded with Speer's 400 gr JFP at 2000 fps / 3550 fpe.

ENGLANDER, now for the good news. When an American goes to Scotland to hunt deer, he will be forced to buy the proper rifle.

Great discussion topic ENGLANDER. It is thought provoking.

This sounds like the work of Bean counters with calculators ! 50bmg OK , and 600 nitro an 700 nitro no good ! You people have to move away from those English , Pirates , Slavers and drug dealers ! Bad influnces they are ! God save Carmilla ! JAGG

Hello from Scotland~

Funny thing is in England you only need min .240 cal 100 gn bullet and muzzle energy of 1700ft/lbs :D that makes most of your favorites "Legal" :p south of the border

A point of note .22 centre fire are illegal for in England for Roe deer or any other for that matter, even though England has two extra species "even" smaller than Roe deer i.e Muntjac and Chinese water deer both smaller than your dog :eek: yet you must still use a .240 min win some lose some, but these are the rules we must play by ............

Its a funny old world :p

Englander

Englander,

I'm sure that you play entirely by the rules there right? None of those home cast 310g bullets in the .444 for deer? :D :D :D

Yikes, I'm sure glad it's your beaurucratic mess. :confused:

Sorry for you though that you have to jump through so many useless and senseless hoops just to enjoy our sport!

Hang in there.

God bless,

Hmmm, I wonder if you necked up some .30-06 brass to .35 cal... and headed to the woods with a .35 Whelen, if any of the squirrel cops could tell the difference? "But Officer, it says .30-06 right on the cartridge!" :D