Comment on this Tech Notes Article:

Marlin Trapper Carbine! by Marshall Stanton (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/58)

Thank you for your comments.

Marshall,
Excellent do-it-your-self article! I really enjoy stuff like that, provides some inspiration for a similar project that I've been neglecting for too long.

Oh, by the way, the link takes me to an article on black powder?

Thanks again,
Bryan

Outstanding article and work! Makes me want to hug my Marlin's!

Great work, looks like you had a good time doing that one. I like the brown and blue effect.

Hey Guys, I just fixed the link so it will work now. Sorry about that!

Glad you like it.... that little gun is SUCH a great shooter now.... will be doing a follow-up article on shooting and feeding the trapper.

I intended this to a do-it-yourself project that about anyone with common hand-tools can accomplish! I faught the urge to cut and crown the barrel in my lathe, as I wanted to demonstrate that with careful attention to detail, anyone can do a reasonable job without the expensive tools. This gun will shoot sub MOA on demand! It was all done with hand tools as shown in the article.

God bless,

WOW.... I am going to try that trick with the bluing. Great article!

Can you blue a handgun frame with the barrel attached, or would it need to be removed?

Steven,

Indeed you can easily blue a handgun frame and barrel as outlined in the article.... just make sure you have a container large enough to hold the gun and it be fully immersed in the bluing salts. Too, make sure that the container used as a bluing tank isn't aluminum! It must be sheet steel or iron, and make sure there are enough bluing salts present to fully cover the frame and barrel when immersed.

To control color, vary the length of time the assembly is in the bluing solution. You can pull it out for a color check at any time, then quickly dunk it back into the bluing salts. Results can vary from a straw-gold, bright plum, plum-blue, to a deep rich blue/black depending upon how long you leave the item being blued in the molten bluing salts.

Try a few "disposable items" first to get a feel for the color possibilities, then do your handgun.... if you just want a deep rich blue, leave the assembly in there for a good long time.... the longer it's there the richer and deeper the blue!

God bless,

Marshall,
thanks again for the valuable information. I always enjoy reading your articles, even if they don't pertain to something I'm doing, as they are imformative and full of very valuable experience and insight. Keep up the good work, but don't have too much fun...I'll be needing some .444 bullets soon.

Marshall, great article! Does all old blueing need to be removed prior to rebluing with your method? Or will the new blueing cover and "replace" the old coloring?

No, you absolutely must remove all old blueing prior to using the method outlined in the article. Good old-fashioned Naval-Jelly, available for around three bucks a pint at hardware stores and home improvement marts gets the job done quickly, and without any fuss, just be sure to thoroughly flush with clean, clear, warm water to remove all traces of the Naval-Jelly prior to blueing.

Trying to "replace" or "cover" old blueing will positively guarantee a patchwork quilt type of final finish.... Hey, if it's worth refinishing, it's worth the little time needed to strip the old finish!

Enjoy... this is fun and rewarding stuff.... low budget too! :D

God bless,

Great tip on the bluing. Sure gets all the mistery Vodoo out of it. Have passed up on old beat up guns because of the bluing issue before, but not anymore. BTW, my Marlin 1897T .22 has a Williams FP receiver sight (I drilled and tapped myself) and two different sized apertures in holes in the buttstock, accesible by removing the two phillips head screws there.

Cool project...I daresay inspirational even.

- GL

Comment on this Tech Notes Article:

Marlin Trapper Carbine! by Marshall Stanton (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/58)

Thank you for your comments.

Nice, interesting article. I really liked the section on blueing - I think I'm going to print it out for reference! On the subject of browning however...

Many years ago in another country, I put together a muzzle-loader kit. I browned it with a small bottle of blueish liquid I got from a small blackpowder guns company now defunct - this was soemthign they'd made up or re-bottled from larger containers themselves. The process was simple - put it on, leave it overnight, wash it off. The results were absolutely fantastic. I've wanted to brown some barrels since, but the labourious Birchwood-Casey method of application (heating up repeatedly, quenching in oil etc.) has scared me off. My question is: have you, or anyone lese, ever come across the simple method I used many years ago, and/or have any idea what the liquid might have been? Who knows - perhaps we can brown as simply as your blueing!

Nice article, Marshall.

I had to keep smiling because it seemed like something I'd do -- except Mom would never let me go into pawn shops!

One small thing, though. A few of the small photos cover some of the text, so I'm sure we're missing something. Maybe you could sneak back in there and do some editing.

New guy -- first post.

I sent my concerns to Marshall in an email, but haven't heard a reply, so I figured I should post here before someone else has my experience.

I read with great interest Marshall's article on how he transformed an old Marlin into a Trapper gun. I did a similar thing to my post-94 Winchester, and re-worked the lever to smooth out all the edges and break the corners to make cocking less hard on the hand. This required re-bluing the lever, so I thought I'd give Marshall's quicky bluing method a try.

If you haven't read the article, Marshall used a common stump-disolving chemical as a source of potassium nitrate which he melted over heat and successfully used to hot blue steel parts of his Marlin.

I went out to my local hardware store and bought three containers of a stuff called "Stump Out", made by Bonide corporation. I put the crystals in a pan and heated them over a hotplate, expecting the stuff to turn into liquid, as Marshall's had.
I let it heat for a while, then tried to stir the powder to get a better melt as directed to do in the article, and an invisible gas erupted out of the powder and attacked me! My nose hairs felt singed and my throat involuntarily closed.
I stuggled to turn off the burner before I ran out of the room.
It smelled of a strong sulphur odor for days (luckily I did it at work and not my house! ;)

There is nothing on the container indicating what it contains. Ditto with Bonide's website. More than likely it was NOT potassium nitrate.

A couple of days later, I was curious and stuck the hotplate outside with the pan of stuff on it and fired it up, just to see what it would do -- from a distance and from behind a door. What it did was burn. The bottom of the chemical melted into a yellow solid, not liquid, and at one point even low flames were visible within the powder. All the time it was emitting an acrid smoke.

Folks, if you have ANY ideas about doing the stump-chemical bluing process, use ONLY the brand mentioned in Marshall's article. I have no idea what I submitted my breathing aperatus to.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU HEAT UP A CHEMICAL NAMED "STUMP-OUT"!!!!

-Dave Polmon, "K9-Handler"

Thanks for the heads-up. I am going to merge this with Marshall's article, so that all of the information is in the same place.

It's great to see an item returned to a useful life. What a great looking gun. Reminded me of the story of "the masters touch" about the old violin at auction that wasn't getting any attention until an old man picked it up and started playing beautiful music.

That old Marlin is something that anyone would be proud to own.

Very informative and inspring! Now I will be looking for beaters just to play with some of this stuff.

You promised in the article to say where the aluminum came from... ?

Tried the process today with mixed results. First, here in Puerto Rico the pound of Pottasium Nitrate stump remover is $5.20. Not knowing exactly how much I'd need I bought four lbs. This ended up being so much more than I needed that I'm actually looking for a stump to use it on.
I searched high and low for a steel baking tray and/or a cast iron pot. No luck, the trays were all aluminum or teflon covered. Was afraid to try it with the teflon coated one. If anybody knows if teflon coated is OK, please let me know. All the cast pots I ever found were aluminum, can't find any cast iron.
Went ahead and cleaned a tin can real well and used that on top of a portable propane stove. In about 15 mins. the PN had melted into a brown very liquid goo. Put in two small pieces after having cleaned them with lacquer thinner, to make sure they were dry. No worries, no explosions! The thinner was a long way from the stove. The parts were an rear sling loop off a 1903A3 which was rusted and pitted, and the front sight from a crossbow, a kind of "U" shaped affair which had had light rust. I cleaned and sanded the front sight to where it was smooth and did the same with the sling loop. Put both in for 15 minutes. Pulled out, looked at them in bright sunshine and put them in for another 15 minutes. Got them out and into 15w-40 automotive oil. This is where I started running into problems. As the parts cooled in the oil, glops of the Potassium Nitrate congealed around them. The PN got real hard, and I could figure no way to remove it. Quick cleaning with brake cleaner (also a long way from the stove)end back into the melted PN. Figured I'd shake them out next time out and get rid of excess PN. Gave the parts another 5 minutes. Well, shaking them upon removal from the PN got rid of some, but not all the excess. After cooling in the oil I realized some of the residue was evenly spread over the parts. I scraped some of it off, but it is hard and I also scraped some of the new finish off. By now I've shut off the stove and the PN is congealing. I tried burnishing with steel wool, but again was taking off some of the finish I'd just put on. Then the light bulb went "on" (this usually happens to me rather sooner than later, but not this time) and I decided to wash the parts with water. All the excess PN just washed away. If I hadn't scratched them, they would be OK.
The finish I got looks more like parkerizing than deep, glossy blue, but I'm guessing (somebody correct me please) that that has more to do with the smoothness of the pieces before treatment and also with how long they're treated. I will be trying this again, with the same pieces and maybe some others, so comments and suggestions will be appreciated.

My experiences with the bluing residue mirrored yours! I tried every conceivable chemical to remove what looked like the sugar coating on a glazed donut. Finally out of despiration I rinsed the part in warm water and the glaze rinsed right off.

You are correct in your assumption. If you want a finish like the barrel on a Reminton BDL, you'll need to have mirror-polished steel beforehand.

Luisyamaha:

I forgot to mention in the last reply....

I found and used a stamped steel (sheet metal) pan, not cast iron. I actually purchased it in my local grocery store, not any fancy kitchen shop.

You don't need to use cast iron.

K-9, everythinig I seem to find that is steel seems to be teflon (non-stick) coated. The cast iron just seemed like a good idea to keep the temperature more even in the mix. Just bought a small dog dish in stainless steel. So now I have a teflon coated baking pan, about 8" X12" X2", a dog dish (ss) 6" diameter X 3" deep, and a can of Never-Dull, which is what I used last 3" Dia. X 3" deep.
Next time I'll let it warm longer to see if it gets a yellow color like Marshall said.
Thanks for the tips,
Luis

BTW, I like your description of the "..sugar coating on a glazed donut." a lot better than mine. Easier to write too!

What type of Protective equipment is needed to use the bluing process... Gloves obviously but is any type of respirator needed for the fumes... Great article... just curious... Oh yeah.. I have a deep stainless steel pot that I was thinking of using.. will this work?? I mainly want a way to blue grip frames, hammers and triggers on my Ruger single actions...

I live in the tropics, so I did it outdoors with somthing handy to put over the stove in case of rain. I wore a faceshield and high temp. gloves. Long pants, shoes, but a short sleeve shirt (it was 87). I didn't hang around close to the heated mixture except when getting things in or out, but the neighbors cat came around sniffing and he's still walking around. I couldn't see nor smell any fumes.

What type of Protective equipment is needed to use the bluing process... Gloves obviously but is any type of respirator needed for the fumes... Great article... just curious... Oh yeah.. I have a deep stainless steel pot that I was thinking of using.. will this work?? I mainly want a way to blue grip frames, hammers and triggers on my Ruger single actions...

Gloves??? We don't need any stinkin' gloves! :D

I cooked the chemical on a large, open loading dock (Marshall said "well ventilated," I believe). I didn't wear any protective clothing, but then again, I didn't plan on sticking my hand in the pot, either! Once I got the right chemical, there was a faint odor, but no noxious fumes.

I hung my cocking lever from a bent coat hanger, then fished it out and dunked it in the oil. Just a bit of warning: it takes a lot longer to cool metal in oil than it does in water.
After it cools it will look candy-coated. Just wash that off with soap and water. Don't try to chip it off.
When you're done washing and drying, cover the part in gun oil.

I see no reason why the stainless pot wouldn't work. Only use enough stump chemical to cover your parts laying on the bottom of the pan.

Another fact from trial and error: electric hotplates don't get hot enough to melt the chemical. You have to use at least a propane camp stove.

I sent my concerns to Marshall in an email, but haven't heard a reply, so I figured I should post here before someone else has my experience.

I read with great interest Marshall's article on how he transformed an old Marlin into a Trapper gun. I did a similar thing to my post-94 Winchester, and re-worked the lever to smooth out all the edges and break the corners to make cocking less hard on the hand. This required re-bluing the lever, so I thought I'd give Marshall's quicky bluing method a try.

If you haven't read the article, Marshall used a common stump-disolving chemical as a source of potassium nitrate which he melted over heat and successfully used to hot blue steel parts of his Marlin.

I went out to my local hardware store and bought three containers of a stuff called "Stump Out", made by Bonide corporation. I put the crystals in a pan and heated them over a hotplate, expecting the stuff to turn into liquid, as Marshall's had.
I let it heat for a while, then tried to stir the powder to get a better melt as directed to do in the article, and an invisible gas erupted out of the powder and attacked me! My nose hairs felt singed and my throat involuntarily closed.
I stuggled to turn off the burner before I ran out of the room.
It smelled of a strong sulphur odor for days (luckily I did it at work and not my house! ;)

There is nothing on the container indicating what it contains. Ditto with Bonide's website. More than likely it was NOT potassium nitrate.

A couple of days later, I was curious and stuck the hotplate outside with the pan of stuff on it and fired it up, just to see what it would do -- from a distance and from behind a door. What it did was burn. The bottom of the chemical melted into a yellow solid, not liquid, and at one point even low flames were visible within the powder. All the time it was emitting an acrid smoke.

Folks, if you have ANY ideas about doing the stump-chemical bluing process, use ONLY the brand mentioned in Marshall's article. I have no idea what I submitted my breathing aperatus to.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU HEAT UP A CHEMICAL NAMED "STUMP-OUT"!!!!

-Dave Polmon, "K9-Handler"

I just finished a project making a MZ trapper pistol - and wanting to stay true to the period, decided to rust blue it (which yields (I think) the same as Marshall's desired "deep blue black" result).

I used Laurel Mountain Barrel Brown and Degreaser, which despite the name, can be used for rust blueing. Over a two day period I obtained a REALLY nice deep deep blue/black that is absolutely authentic. No sulphur. No fumes. Just the solution, time, and a couple of sessions of dunking in boiling distilled water. I made my own "humidity box" with an old tupperware container, some moist paper towel, plastic wrap and a reading light - worked jus' fine. Cost is $8 for a bottle, can get it from Brownells, Dixie Gun works, etc. I have enough to do a couple more guns from a very small bottle. Why mess with tree stump remover of unknwon composition and danger?

I used "SA50 stump remover" made by Southern Agricultural Insecticides Inc.. It clearly states in the label" CAUTION: Contains Potassium Nitrate, an oxidizer. Possible fire hazard." It is not in the shape of crystals, rather little balls about 3/32" in diameter. The quantity I melted is one big clump now.

Any idea what the lowest useable temperature of the stump remover is? In othe words the exact melting temp? I'd like to be able to get consistant colors other than blue.

Any idea what the lowest useable temperature of the stump remover is? In othe words the exact melting temp? I'd like to be able to get consistant colors other than blue.
I stuck a thermometer in the time I used some and it looked like it needed to be about 500 degrees to stay liquid.