Greetings from Africa (South Africa to be precise...)

I've recently discovered this great site, and hope you don't mind if a "Non American" joins in the discussions :D I'm sure that I can learn a lot from this Forum, and perhaps contribute something worthwhile as well.

To start, I would appreciate it if anyone could comment on the expected barrel life of a Sako model 75 in cal .243W. I've been using this rifle for a few years now, having bought it the yeat this model was launched. To date, I've only used it for hunting (and of course hunting practice...), and averaged perhaps 150 shots per year. I've recently joined a silhoette shooting club, and have just fired off 100 rounds in one afternoon :eek:

I'm pretty confident that the Sako will outlive me under normal hunting conditions, but am worried that I might shoot out the barrel if I shoot the volume required to participate in the silhoette matches (at least 200 rounds per month, probably about 500 whilst practising...)

Any replies will be appreciated,

Hennie

Barrel life in this calibre should be very good. As long as your groups stay consistant don't worry about it. i would estimate eight to ten thousand rounds would not be unusual as long as you are not shooting very high velocity loads. (3800 fps. or faster)

The Sako is a rifle that would be worth the expense of rebarreling at some point. I Have a 579 Sako in .243 Win. and it still shoots tighter than I can hold.

Welcome to the forum. I to shoot 243's. Mostly used for varmit hunting, coyote's and ground squirrels. Probably 500 rounds a year for each.

lets talk about competition shooting. when you get into one of these sports your going to be shooting more and barrel life does become an important part of the consideration.

Eventually your going to have to replace a barrel if you compete long enough. Start budgeting now for that eventualty. Put say ten dollars (I'm not sure what that means in South Africa dollars) or more a month in a fund to support rebarreling a competition rifle.

Like was said above your 243 using standard loads will get pretty good barrel life, but there is gonna come a day.

One thing I found helps is to have your rifle Armaloyed. This is a hard chrome plating that is used on metal stamping tools and done inside a barrel does encrease barrel life a bunch. Only downside is it looks like bead blasted stainless and some folks can't abide that look.

Again welcome and I am looking forward to hearing about some of your hunting experiences where you live.

Heat is your enemy...getting that barrel red hot is going to kill it faster...the number or rounds fired is variable, but rapid fire is a barrel wear accelerant.

IF 5,000 rounds is the limit (and that maybe conservative), then that equals 50 boxes of bullets (that's about $400 to $600 in jacketed bullets alone)...11 pounds of powder (call that $110 to $140)...and 5 cartons of primers (call that $60). To shoot 5K rounds, will need about $700 of components.

IF you are a factory load shooter, then call it $2000-$2500 of factory ammo.

{Prices figured on average US costs...suspect you cost will be double that.}

By then, the rifle may nor may not need a new barrel...if it does, then it's probably earned it.

Thanks for the replies so far - much appreciated :)

One detail I left out, is that the barrel (and action) is stainless steel - would this result in a longer barrel life than "normal" rifle steel?
welcome and I am looking forward to hearing about some of your hunting experiences where you live.

Thanks. Being a "local", for me hunting in Africa is not all that glamorous as it's made out to be :rolleyes: but of course then I only hunt "common" animals such as Springbuck, Impala, Kudu, Wildebees and such - Us "locals" mostly cannot afford to hunt lion, elephants, buffalo, etc, as we cannot compete with the US dollar :mad: even in our own country... I use the Sako .243W for plains game, and a ~25 year old Sako Finnbear in cal. 30-06 for the larger game - the latter still shooting sub-MOA groups after all these years :D
Heat is your enemy...getting that barrel red hot is going to kill it faster...the number or rounds fired is variable, but rapid fire is a barrel wear accelerant.

This is one of my main concerns - during competitions one is required to fire 5 shots in less than 3 minutes, and the barrel does heat up more than I like. Fortunately, there is a 10 - 15 minute break after every 10 shots, whilst the plates are picked up, and this does allow the rifles to cool down some.

The other concern is that my rifle prefers the Sierra 70 grain Match King HPBT bullet with S361 powder (the South African equivalent to IMR 4831, which is a relatively slow burning propellant), giving me 3/4" to 1" groups at 200 meters with a muzzle velocity of ~3300 fps. Would this slower burning powder produce more barrel wear than a faster powder? (By the way, this is only for target shooting, for hunting I only use 100 grain bullets...)

A lot of competition shooters have the "problem" you have with excessive barrel heating. One of the things I've heard they do is use stainless barrels, as they are less prone to throat erosion. Next, they use a bore scope to constantly keep an eye on the lands in the throat. When they see signs of wear, they (or their gunsmith) will re-cut the throat a few thousandths of an inch to true it back up ... and then the shooter will just start seating his bullets out however much further the throat was cut.

Concerning barrel life past the throat, it should wear so much more slowly than the throat that I wouldn't consider worrying about it in a million years.

A lot of competition shooters have the "problem" you have with excessive barrel heating. One of the things I've heard they do is use stainless barrels, as they are less prone to throat erosion. Next, they use a bore scope to constantly keep an eye on the lands in the throat. When they see signs of wear, they (or their gunsmith) will re-cut the throat a few thousandths of an inch to true it back up ... and then the shooter will just start seating his bullets out however much further the throat was cut.

Concerning barrel life past the throat, it should wear so much more slowly than the throat that I wouldn't consider worrying about it in a million years.

Most people swear that stainless wears a bit slower..haven't seen much proof one way or the other, but will take that on faith. But it isn't a great deal of difference.

The more powder down the barrel, the more wear. FOr the small fraction of a second of powder burn, heat and pressure are the same thing. Run at 55,000PSI with 30gr. of powder or 60gr. of a slwoer powder, the peak temeprature is going to be about the same....but with the larger powder charge, the temperature will last longer....trasfering more heat.

Powder tends not be ejected, not yet ignited or in the process of igniting, through the funnel of the case nexk and into the start of rifling during the burn...this can be somewhat abrasive to heated steel. Some people swear that ball powders are less erosive becasue of this; is some military data (from machinegun use where barrel heating and erosion is really a problem) that backs this claim up.

Think people make too much of barrel wear...I'd LOVE to be able to live long enough to wear out the rifles in the safe.

High power and silhouette shooters have a love/hate relationship with the .243 Win. They love to shoot it... and hate buying barrels!

The slower you can run your loads, the better, but you are going to wear that barrel out sooner or later in competition. Just be aware of that.

Good luck, and welcome. We have a few from South Africa who post here.... pictures of your hunts are welcome!

Welcome Hennie. I love my .243 and probably shoot it as much as I do all my other rifles put together. I know I've put thousands of rounds thru mine with no sign yet of problems. A idea if heat is a real problem where you're at that I got years ago out of Shooting Times magazine. Carry a couple of the blatter type 'hot water' bottles filled with cool (NOT COLD) water. You'll need to drill a hole in the lids and glue a 1/4" hose in the hole. Between rounds when the barrel is really heated up, flush the barrel with the cool water to help cool it down, Just be sure to dry the barrel before shooting again. I was able to come up with some IV bottles and lines (don't ask), and they work perfectly. People look at you like you're crazy and I'm sure to receive the wrath of this forum for this idea, but it works great for cooling my barrel quickly. Looking forward to hearing some of your hunting stories.

... A idea if heat is a real problem where you're at that I got years ago out of Shooting Times magazine. Carry a couple of the blatter type 'hot water' bottles filled with cool (NOT COLD) water. You'll need to drill a hole in the lids and glue a 1/4" hose in the hole. Between rounds when the barrel is really heated up, flush the barrel with the cool water to help cool it down, Just be sure to dry the barrel before shooting again.
Thanks for the tip - however, having to shoot strings of 5 shots in less than 3 minutes, at targets up to 500m away, and having to do that whilst standing, won't really allow any time for this. I suppose that I could hook up a water cooled circulating system, as with the old Vickers machine guns :D can you believe that I actually used one of them when I did my military service - made water hot enough to boil eggs in :eek:

Looking forward to hearing some of your hunting stories

Oh, I don't have anything really exciting to tell, but I suppose some anecdotes will surface during discussions.

Hennie

Just my 2 cents worth but five shots in 3 minutes isn't what I'd call rapid fire. When I go ground squirrel shooting I can burn 8-10 rounds in 3 minutes if the little blighters are thick and not educated yet. There are certain times of the year when "gophers" are venomous and will attack if provoked :rolleyes: This is out of a 223 that has seen in excess of 8000 rounds. I do keep a close feel on how hot the barrel is getting and if it's hotter than I can comfortably hold onto for five count I set it down and grab another rifle. I usually take at least three. :D

five shots in 3 minutes isn't what I'd call rapid fire

No, but shooting at long distance standing, out of the shoulder, (no rest or support...) it's not all that short either - certainly not short enough to allow one to flush the barrel with cold water, and dry it...

Hennie

How fast do you repeat the 5 shots in 3 minutes?

How fast do you repeat the 5 shots in 3 minutes?
Well, we normally shoot in two relays, so the second round of shooting starts about 5 minutes after the end of the first round. I've found that the rifle barrel becomes *much* too hot to touch by the end of the second round.

Fortunately, there is a rather longer delay after every two rounds, as we then go forward to pick up the plates we have shot down, driving up to the 500 meter distance in a pickup - this usually takes about 10 - 15 minutes, and allows the barels to cool down nicely if left standing upright with the actions open.

Hennie

Well, we normally shoot in two relays, so the second round of shooting starts about 5 minutes after the end of the first round. I've found that the rifle barrel becomes *much* too hot to touch by the end of the second round.

Fortunately, there is a rather longer delay after every two rounds, as we then go forward to pick up the plates we have shot down, driving up to the 500 meter distance in a pickup - this usually takes about 10 - 15 minutes, and allows the barels to cool down nicely if left standing upright with the actions open.

Hennie

African Hunter, several years ago I was intorduced to young blonde man about 18 yrs old, who had won the local big shoot in your neck of the woods. His father was a sort of butcher and meat processor. This young shooter had eyes of an eagle and shooting skills that would marvel most Drill Instructors. I got to see him shoot a 5 shot group at around 100 yards with iron sights and you could cover them with a nickel easy.

If I remember correctely they only used iron sights in this competition. It evidently is a big thing in South Africa shooting rifles for sport.

This young shooter had eyes of an eagle and shooting skills that would marvel most Drill Instructors. I got to see him shoot a 5 shot group at around 100 yards with iron sights and you could cover them with a nickel easy... It evidently is a big thing in South Africa shooting rifles for sport.
Well, it USED to be a big thing...

With our new "Firearms Control Act" taking effect here in "Democratic South Africa", we are being disarmed to a large extent by our "previously terrorist" government, and unfortunately most youngsters are being discouraged (or perhaps I should say "intimidated") by politically driven propaganda and peer pressure to view firearms as being "bad" :rolleyes: :( Even shooting enthusiasts are at a very low morale at the moment, with most of us in the process of losing some (if not all...) our weapons - and licensing those we are allowed to keep will be so expensive, that many people won't be able to afford keeping more than one or two weapons in any case :(

Well, this is perhaps a subject of another thread, apologies for going off topic.

Do you keep the action open between rounds? That will help by allowing natural air circulation through the bore. Especially if the barrel is vertical as in a gun rack or over your shoulder for example.

Yes, as stated previously:
...this usually takes about 10 - 15 minutes, and allows the barels to cool down nicely if left standing upright with the actions open.