Ok, I have spent the last two days searching the net for loading data for a new pistol/cartridge I recently purchased. I now have a CZ52p, chambered in 7.62 x 25 Tokarev. This is a really neat little pistol, and a range clearer at that. This little bugger really puts off a pretty good muzzle blast, and will clear the line to your right from ejected casings!!!

I bought a box of S&B factory ammo with the gun, but that is all the loaded ammo I have. Plan on placing an order with Midway soon and would like to get some advice on reloading this little power house. I bought a set of dies while I was there, so that is a done deal.

Most of the load data I find listed is for Accurate powders, largely #5, #7, and #9. I did buy a lb of #7, but I have several different powders from Hodgdon on my bench. I would really like to get some loading data for the Hodgdon powders, as that is what I mostly use. Does anybody have any loadings for this cartridge with Hodgdon? I sent Hodgdon an email, but have had no response as of yet.

Also, there seems to be a bit of "fog" on the bullets for this round. The die set recommends bullets in the .309 - .311 range. Well just ain't really finding much. The shop where I bought the pistol recommended Hornady 85gr Hp XTP for the 32. These are .312. I have also read of others using .308 bullets for this cartridge. What bullets should I use, and what have you had success with?

Lastly, I will be needing a case trimmer for this cartridge. I have been unsuccessful in locating a Lee case trimmer gauge for this round, even though they make the dies for it. Also sent them an email, but no response as of yet. They will make one for $20 according to the site if I send them the specs; funny, they should have them if they made the die. Any suggestions on where to find one of these other than paying the excessive price from Lee Precision would be appreciated.

Accurate Arms has loads listed in their manual. I have been using AA#7. Go to their website for loads with AA#2, AA#5, AA#7, and AA#9. Before you load go to the Starline website and read their warning about overlong brass: .30 Mauser brass "looks" interchangeable but if used without trimming it back properly the round is forced into the chamber by the very strong CZ spring and actually has brass pushed into the throat. This grips the bullet hard and causes extreme pressure (~50,000 psi or more) that will seriously damage both gun and shooter. My favorite plinking load for cutting holes in paper is a 110 gr copper plated lead bullet (intended for M-1 carbine) with 6.7 gr AA#7 seated to 1.350" using Starline brass and WSP primer. Not real fast, probably ~1090 fps. I hve cheap steel Lee dies and have used them with no problem whatsoever. Good luck.

Thanks for the response. I did indeed order some Starline brass from Midway. Been doin some loadin and shootin over the last week for this fun little gun.

I spoke to Hodgdon last week on the phone. The lab-load guy I spoke with told me that Hodgdon has not done very much work with the 7.62 x 25, hence there is really no printed data from them. He did tell me that he has a cz52 and that he loads with H110. He recommended minimum of 10.3gr and absolute maximum of 14.2gr of H 110.

I also asked him about the proper bullet to use, as I have found listings of 0.308 - 0.312 bullets used in load data on the internet. He told me, in no uncertain terms, absolutely do not use jacketed bullets any larger than 0.309 in the CZ 52. He stated that by using 0.312 (.32 caliber) bullets you take an unnecessary chance of over pressure and could very easily have the gun blowup in-hand. You can take that for what it is worth, but I will use his advice.

I have found some load data for Hodgdon Titegroup after extensive searching on the internet. I did load some of cartridges with Titegroup and found them to be accurate and very nice to shoot, although they ain't real zippy. For these loads I was using Hornady 90gr HP XTP bullets (0.309). Below is the data I loaded for:

Titegroup 4.5gr 1176 fps
Titegroup 5.0gr 1248 fps
Titegroup 5.3gr 1287 fps

I used the crimp feature that is in the Lee Bullet seating die for these cartridges. I fully expect that my velocities will increase once I start using my Factory Crimp Die later this week. I only crimped hard enough to hold the bullets with the die I had, because if I did much more, I would buckle the case neck.

I also loaded bullets with H 110 and Accurate #7 with very good results. In fact I received some loadings with H 110 with velocities over 2000fps. I worked these up in slow graduations and checked pistol and case after each firing. I found no ill effects, and a really rockin automatic!!! My Casull seemed a bit quiet and tame after the H 110 loads!!! Ha,ha,ha.

I will probably stick with the AA #7 for the Tokarev, once I get my factory crimp die. Just don't want to rev-up the engine until I feel confident about my pressure/velocity stabilization.

Gotta slug the bore to find out exact diameter of bullet to use for your particular barrel. The loads you list seem a little weak for this round. Don't know about S&B but the Russian specs put their mil-spec ammo throwing the 90gr FMJ at 1950-2100 fps. Got dies and everything myself but never made it any further than thay with this one, picked up a couple cases of surplus ammo which should keep me busy for some time to come.

Gotta slug the bore to find out exact diameter of bullet to use for your particular barrel. The loads you list seem a little weak for this round. Don't know about S&B but the Russian specs put their mil-spec ammo throwing the 90gr FMJ at 1950-2100 fps. Got dies and everything myself but never made it any further than thay with this one, picked up a couple cases of surplus ammo which should keep me busy for some time to come.

Markkw,
Slugging the barrel is a good suggestion. According to all printed (load manuals) load data that I have found they say to use bullets .308 - .311. The .32 caliber bullets from Hornady mic's out at 0.312. May not make a difference in 1 out of a 1000 rounds, but you may just add a touch too much powder to one and get the over-pressure. Thats the one-in-a-thousand I don't want.

Yes, the velocities for the Titegroup I listed are a bit low for this cartritridge, however, if you do much loading with this powder you will find that it spikes pressure pretty quick and you have to use lesser grainage with it for safety reasons. I can get almost the same velocity with 10.5gr of Titegroup as I can with 23gr of H110 in my 44 Mag. But 10gr is pretty much max for this cartridge.

Be careful with the military surplus ammo and the CZ52. There is some on the market that was intended for use in some of the submachine guns and is hotter. Have read several posts on the internet of CZ's blowin up with these rounds.

I checked a box of current production 7.62 x 25 S&B ammo. I chronographed 5 shots and the results were 1567, 1507, 1500, 1465, and 1515. Average for this string would be 1511 fps. The Extreme Spread of velocities for my strings varied as much as 100 fps for a 5 shot string. The Titegroup extreme spread was about 80 fps. I accredit this spread to the fact that I was using the seating die crimper and if I used too much pressure to crimp, I would buckle the case necks. Once I get my Factory crimp die and my casing trimmer, I will retest some of my better performing loads. I am sure that the velocities will become more consistant. They did with the 44 Mag.

The data I used for Titegroup came from a website, (not affiliated with any loading company) and I decided to use the safer side of there loading data range for my tests. According to Hodgdon, they have performed no testing on this cartridge except for H 110.

Markkw,
Slugging the barrel is a good suggestion. According to all printed (load manuals) load data that I have found they say to use bullets .308 - .311. The .32 caliber bullets from Hornady mic's out at 0.312. May not make a difference in 1 out of a 1000 rounds, but you may just add a touch too much powder to one and get the over-pressure. Thats the one-in-a-thousand I don't want.

Yes, the velocities for the Titegroup I listed are a bit low for this cartritridge, however, if you do much loading with this powder you will find that it spikes pressure pretty quick and you have to use lesser grainage with it for safety reasons. I can get almost the same velocity with 10.5gr of Titegroup as I can with 23gr of H110 in my 44 Mag. But 10gr is pretty much max for this cartridge.

Be careful with the military surplus ammo and the CZ52. There is some on the market that was intended for use in some of the submachine guns and is hotter. Have read several posts on the internet of CZ's blowin up with these rounds.

I checked a box of current production 7.62 x 25 S&B ammo. I chronographed 5 shots and the results were 1567, 1507, 1500, 1465, and 1515. Average for this string would be 1511 fps. The Extreme Spread of velocities for my strings varied as much as 100 fps for a 5 shot string. The Titegroup extreme spread was about 80 fps. I accredit this spread to the fact that I was using the seating die crimper and if I used too much pressure to crimp, I would buckle the case necks. Once I get my Factory crimp die and my casing trimmer, I will retest some of my better performing loads. I am sure that the velocities will become more consistant. They did with the 44 Mag.

The data I used for Titegroup came from a website, (not affiliated with any loading company) and I decided to use the safer side of there loading data range for my tests. According to Hodgdon, they have performed no testing on this cartridge except for H 110.


Lower pressures for sure is a good way to go. When I started with the 8x57 loads they were quite wimpy too allowing for the possibility of someone trying to shove a .323" bullet down a .318" bore. This is why I strongly suggest slugging each and every bore BEFORE doing anything. I found one CZ-52 barrel so far slugging at .3085" which makes for a tight fit with a .311/.312" bullet.

I did see/hear a lot of commotion about sub-MG ammo in this cal but the latest info I got from a surplus ammo supplier who tests & investigates everything he carries personally is that this is a myth. The standards changed at some point for the loadings on this round with advancements in component technology, namely primers and powders. Newer Russian spec ammo was designed to run higher pressure and velocity than the old standards which had nothing to do with the round being used in SMG's. The roller block system on the CZ-52 is more than capable of handling full house loads PROVIDED it is properly maintained withing specs for safe operation. A few of the exploded guns have turned proven to be defective in some manner; excessive headspace, play in the locks, ect... the higher pressure ammo was not the cause but rather poor/improper maintenance/inpsection.

I go over every one of my surplus guns inlcuding checking clearances & headspace on a regular basis. I have no fear of cranking up the power on those that are well capable of handling it while backing down loads for those with some degree of question. I do know the 7.62x25 is a real performer but maxing it our must be done safely and with absolute assurance the max ammo will not be used in any other gun not fitting of it. Boils down to me using pointed bullets in my bolt action 30-30 that far exceeded safe pressures and bullet style for lever/pump guns however it was perfectly fine for the application I had. Care and Caution Always but if everything is a "go", there's no reason not to enjoy the full potential.

I would love to sell or trade my Lee die set and some brass.....I engraved mine, did a trigger job, reblued it and ended up selling it when a guy made me a good offer. with the trigger fixed it is a pretty hot little pistol. I was careful to debur the roller locking assy and put some good moly grease on it.

I found that the round in the CZ 52 is sensitive to OAL. All reasonable OAL feed well if you polish the ramp. But the accuracy of the round is dependent upon OAL and crimp. I used Hornady 90 grn bullets and AA 9, half a grain below max for both accuracy and power. This puppy is a pretty hot round. Initially I was able to form brass from .223 by trimming and turning the inside of the neck. I lucked upon some brass so that wasn't necessary. Starline also makes the stuff. You can shoot the surplus stuff in it and the Yugo stuff that was loaded for the PPSh is hot and works well. Other stuff, loaded for the Tokerav is terrible. Lube, size and clean as with a rifle round.

I did see/hear a lot of commotion about sub-MG ammo in this cal but the latest info I got from a surplus ammo supplier who tests & investigates everything he carries personally is that this is a myth. The standards changed at some point for the loadings on this round with advancements in component technology, namely primers and powders. Newer Russian spec ammo was designed to run higher pressure and velocity than the old standards which had nothing to do with the round being used in SMG's. The roller block system on the CZ-52 is more than capable of handling full house loads PROVIDED it is properly maintained withing specs for safe operation. A few of the exploded guns have turned proven to be defective in some manner; excessive headspace, play in the locks, ect... the higher pressure ammo was not the cause but rather poor/improper maintenance/inpsection.

This is very possibly where the problems did indeed come from. Routine cleaning and maintenance attention is something that needs to be done to any firearm, especially if one is pushing the envelope. The roller block system is what drew me to this pistol in the first place. Something different from what I currently had, including the cool looking cartridge!


Boils down to me using pointed bullets in my bolt action 30-30 that far exceeded safe pressures and bullet style for lever/pump guns however it was perfectly fine for the application I had. Care and Caution Always but if everything is a "go", there's no reason not to enjoy the full potential.
I totally agree and practice safe loading procedures as much as I can. In fact I have gone away from a Lyman 505 powder scale, because I get too many errant loads with this scale. I have come to belief recently that this scale may be why my velocities have varied by 60-70fps over 5 rounds. I will go back to my Lee Safety scale, which is much more exact when weighing these smaller loads. Thought maybe the pressure differences were coming from tightness of crimp, but after checking several dozen loadings last night, I just don't trust the Lyman anymore for close-to-max loads.

Thanks for your input.