I would like this salesman/ smith to measure the cylinder throats before I even consider given good money for something so highly priced. Cannot wait for the new Sportsmans Mall to move in this winter. Is this proper in asking that to be done before purchasing any revolver? I was looking at the Smith model 25-5 Colt. I was reading John Taffins article "The .45 Colt IS GREAT! Take THAT Venturino!" and how it is noted that cylinder throats vary so much upon new wheel guns. Kind of crazy that Quality Control is overlooked. Any suggestions? I might want to go sometime an go on GunBroker but that is going to be the same problem. Is their any measures I can take in obtaining a good dbl. action-Not the 44 magnum, I am a loyalist in the .45cal. that is not "offensive" I can be blunt if necessary towards saleman, if the need arises but rather not.

Griz,
Around here,most salesmen would be challenged to attempt to measure the chamber. I also have never had any experience in your situation.
I can say that;if you make a deal for the pistol,and make it contingent on the outcome of the measurement,it would be in "good taste".No worthwhile Salesperson would have any reason to refuse to try to comply.
Just opinion,
Frank

I guess you could stick your calipers in your back pocket or take some cast bullets sized to what you want to see how or if they drop through the cylinder if you already have your bullets. Same with jkt bullets.

Bill

Take your own micrometer cause I doubt that 1 in a hundred salesmen would have much of an idea what your talking about. I also doubt that one in a thousand would know how to or would the store have the equipment to do so unless they had a gunsmith on property.

Being a salesman is not a highly trained trade like being a gunsmith, not is it their business to do jobs like that.

I doubt that and gunstore would object to you measuring the throats on a revolver, now if it came to dismantling a gun, well that would be a different matter.

Not going to happen...a salesman is not going to know how to do it, and he's not going to let you beat lead bullets through a brand new gun's cylinder.

He'll probably not be too upset if you measure the throats with a caliper... can be a fustrating to get accurate measuements...but some sales men just aren;t going to let you poke around with a metal tool (even a caliper) on a brand new gun.

Don't know if it's over looked quyaility control or not...the vast majority of shooters wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Not going to happen...a salesman is not going to know how to do it, and he's not going to let you beat lead bullets through a brand new gun's cylinder.

He'll probably not be too upset if you measure the throats with a caliper... can be a fustrating to get accurate measuements...but some sales men just aren;t going to let you poke around with a metal tool (even a caliper) on a brand new gun.

Don't know if it's over looked quyaility control or not...the vast majority of shooters wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
too bad. I graduated from high school back in 75' and my last requird course was economics. I certainly can recall when back in that classroom the teacher taught on "Caveat Emptor" Buyer Beware! Still true to this day. My dollars to me still have quite abit of value even if it don't to the gunstores. I suspect this trail of a purchase will only lead me to a "custom" gunsmith of renown rep. somewhere down the road. Thanks fellas!

I have found that some sales people when they know what you are looking for will allow you to check things out. ie. use feeler gauge to check cylinder to forcing cone gap and use calipers to check cylinder throats. Fewer will let you pull the pin and remove the cylinder, but some will. You never know unless you ask. It's tough in a place where the sales person behind the counter knows next to nothing unless they are interested in learning more. I always figured that it is my $400 or more and if they want it, then they need to provide me the service I expect.

Good Luck grizz!

I could be wrong but as I understand the throat problem is limited to rugers. Smiths tend to have a better QC department.

Griz,

I agree with Ribbonstone regarding the probability of your being able to take cylinder throat measurements with a set of calipers especially to the tolerances that you are looking for.

Best bet might be to borrow 'pin gauges' from a local machinist if you have one near by and they are willing to let them out of their shop.

You would not need the whole set, nearly 500 of them, but for the .45 colt you would need these; .450, .451, .452, .453, .454 and hopefully not .455.

Pin Gauges are relatively non invasive and will not damage the cylinder throat unless you take one that obviousley does not slide through and force it.

I have done this when buying and have never been refused.

Fletch

Get accruate results with the expanding type hole guages...but it's something you have to practice doing (as is geting repeatable readings from a mic. or a caliper)...at least to the 3rd place (.453 vs .454").

But if you do get permission, keep whatever you find to yourself. Some gunshops owners will frown on you boradcasting your opinions as to why that brand new guns is a POS. Have sertainly found things wrong with brand new guns in a gun shop cales case...and I might quietly tell the clerk about it if (1) I know hime (2) I don't know him and he seems like he's not a clown...but usually I'll just smile and hand him the gun back.

Would tell a friend not to buy it...but I would not loudly bradcast in his shop, "Hay everyone, this gun is a chunk of monkey dung."

I could be wrong but as I understand the throat problem is limited to rugers. Smiths tend to have a better QC department.

Two slow, don't beleive that for a second, I had a S&W 629-5, Lew Horton. This thing was nothing but trouble from the get go, Excessive top strap flame cutting, cylinder face not square, forcing cone not cut square, timing issues, etc.
I took it bak to the gunsmith I bought it from, he squared the cylinder face, squared the forcing cone,
Later I could not take the cylinder out for cleaning, found the crane was damaged, sent it to S&W, they sent it back "fixed" I fired about 18 rounds and the cylinder locked up. Thanks S&W, this was my cc gun, sent it back, they all worked on it, a few months later the cylinder would not open. Criminy people, this is not good, I traded it for a Ruger 45 acp. and am as happy as could be.
The cylinder throats measured on the 629-5, were from .427-.432 as best I remember, the second time they returned it to me, they had reamed the throats, much more accurate. however it looked like they used a torch to open the throats. unbeleivable gouging and galling to the cylinder face. I could not beleive what I saw.
I keep hearing how good S&W is supposed to be, I will NEVER own another. Like I told their service dept. for the money I spent on this top of the line handgun, I could have bought 2 rossi's and been in better shape. They did not like that. Too bad.
Halfbreed

first off let me explain something Rbbonstone, I am a learned man and would be gracious enough to keep any info I HAVE gained to myself and would not embarrass myself or the store. To think of what you said, would undermine who I am, sir. If I could be allowed the "pin" gauges and that could be allowed or "expandin" type gauges would be satisfactory to the end result of a purchase or not. I have always liked the feel and point of a Smith, if only they could be juiced up like a Ruger or the like in the .45Colt, but that won't stop me in my endeavor in acquiring one. If lets say I come across one with a size of .457" what is the "norm" for the correction? Send the pistol back to Smith and have them put on a newly timed and "fitted" clylinder and what do you suppose the cost would be?

I could be wrong but as I understand the throat problem is limited to rugers. Smiths tend to have a better QC department.

Two slow, don't beleive that for a second, I had a S&W 629-5, Lew Horton. This thing was nothing but trouble from the get go, Excessive top strap flame cutting, cylinder face not square, forcing cone not cut square, timing issues, etc.
I took it bak to the gunsmith I bought it from, he squared the cylinder face, squared the forcing cone,
Later I could not take the cylinder out for cleaning, found the crane was damaged, sent it to S&W, they sent it back "fixed" I fired about 18 rounds and the cylinder locked up. Thanks S&W, this was my cc gun, sent it back, they all worked on it, a few months later the cylinder would not open. Criminy people, this is not good, I traded it for a Ruger 45 acp. and am as happy as could be.
The cylinder throats measured on the 629-5, were from .427-.432 as best I remember, the second time they returned it to me, they had reamed the throats, much more accurate. however it looked like they used a torch to open the throats. unbeleivable gouging and galling to the cylinder face. I could not beleive what I saw.
I keep hearing how good S&W is supposed to be, I will NEVER own another. Like I told their service dept. for the money I spent on this top of the line handgun, I could have bought 2 rossi's and been in better shape. They did not like that. Too bad.
HalfbreedThat is some serious Quality Control issues their Halfbreed. Them Smith's are a attractive handgun and it seems since Smith's change over sometime back the the quality has not improved at all. I can always get in touch with Bowen or the like and have them work on a pistol but I do not think they will work on any Smiths-not sure. Their speciality is Rugers and the like but mainly Ruger. Am greived to hear your difficulties with the handgun and Smith. Hope you are content with you're ACP it is not the Smith, surely. Thanks for the input.

Grizz, hello, I fully beleive I would rather buy a Ruger RH, have an action job done on it, and have the smith true the cylinder throats, or hand lap the throats with a drill and emory cloth. Here is an article By Mr. Stanton on a BH, but it is still the same thing on a RH.
http://beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm
very informative and simple, I did this on a SBH, works great.
As far as sending it back to S&W, in my experience NO WAY, I have had my last dealings with them.
Halfbreed

Grizz, that 629-5 fit me like a glove, it concealed very easily. alot of territory I played in, had black bear, moose, and wolves. not to mention 2 legged jackals.
I felt very safe packing the smith, 44spcls on the streets and 300 hammer in the woods.
but the pistol itself was no good. I was very disapointed to say the least. my next woods gun will be a 500 S&W, just not sure what the gun itself will be. I am thinking about the 6" Taurus raging bull with 550 gn wfngc, at about 1300fps. a woods gun, and then a street gun, the ruger acp.
This p97dc, hits what it is aimed at so much better than the 629 ever did, no matter who shot it.
I had a few long conversations with S&W about their lack of quality control.
And, yes I realize there is a big diferance between a wheel gun and an auto, and a 44mag and 45acp, but this was not the first 44 I have had.
After looking at so many wheel guns, I think all of them are going to need a throat job, regardless of manufacturer.
Halfbreed