Hello folks,

About 4 months ago, I started a thread under handloading equipment titled ".444 Marlin vs. .45-70 Gov't (http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=20388)." Just wanted to say thanks to all who contributed to that thread and felt I owed them an update. I finally decided on the .444 Marlin with 22" barrel. Ordered it through Wal-Mart Layaway and should get it next week.

For Handloading Equipment, I decided to go with the following:

1. Lee 4-Hole Turret Press w/Auto Index - lee90932
2. Lee Extra 4-Hole Turret - lee90269
3. Lee 3-Die Set w/Powder thru Expanding Die (444 Marlin) - lee90562
4. Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure - lee90429
5. Lee Double Disk Kit - lee90195
6. Lee Adjustable Charge Bar - lee90792
7. Lee Powder Funnel - lee90190
8. Lee Swivel Adapter (Auto Disk Powder Measure) - lee90477
9. Hornady Powder Trickler
10. Lee Primer Pocket Cleaner - lee90101
11. Lee Chamfer Tool - lee90109
12. Lee Case Length Gauge & Shell Holder (444 Marlin) - lee90151
13. Lee Cutter w/Ball Grip - lee90275
14. Lee Cutter and Lock Stud - lee90110
15. Lee Safety Powder Scale - lee90681
16. Lee Reloader Pack - lee90700 (includes the following items):
A. Modern Reloading, 2nd Ed. By Richard Lee
B. Lee Reloader, Single Stage C-Press

17. Lee Lock Rings (package of 3) - lee90534
18. Lee Auto Prime Shellholder Set of 11 - lee90198
19. Lee Auto Prime - lee90230
20. Lee Universal Shellholder Set (for presses) - lee90197
21. Frankford Arsenal Bullet Puller - ph836017
22. Lee Universal Decapping Die - lee90292
23. Lee Universal Decapping Replacement Pin - lee90783
24. Hornady One Shot Case Lube (8 oz pump)
25. MTM Universal Loading Tray - LT150M-30
26. The Complete Reloading Manual for the .444 Marlin (Loadbooks USA)
27. Frankford Arsenal Dial Caliper
28. Lyman Flashhole Uniformer Tool
29. 600 once fired .444 Rem. Brass for $99 (Safary Supply...Thanks Ranch Dog!)
30. Beartooth Bullets Fire Lapping Kit and sinker slugs
31. ABC's of Reloading, 7th Ed.

Still have a few items left to add to the list (can you say powder, bullets and primers :)), but it's a healthy start. Instead of just purchasing "Modern Reloading, 2nd Ed," I opted for the pack (item 16 above). The manual can be had for about $10 alone, but for $8 more, I get an extra press which will likely perform decapping and other sundry duties. I compared prices at Bosesguns, Natchez, Midsouth and MidwayUSA. Hands down, Boses has the best prices, although a few items will be bought from Midway since they were the only ones who had them. One excellent feature of MidwayUSA's site are the Customer's Product Reviews. I highly recommend that feature, whether you purchase from Midway or not. The reviews often include tips and work-a-rounds to glitches, in addition to opinions.

I decided not to buy the packaged reloading press kits as I knew that I would upgrade a number of items anyways. Since I live in an apartment, I will be mounting to 2x6 slabs and C-clamping to a permanent built-in desktop, allowing for modular mobility (a requirement which my fashion-conscious significant other staunchly demands ;), although I personally think all that red looks pretty handsome myself :D). I'll eventually tool up for the .45 ACP as well, but will start with the 444.

Thanks again everyone.

I'd say you are probably a pretty happy guy right at this point!

You will sure enjoy the .444.

After you have used the four hole Lee press some you should start a thread with your thoughts on it.

You are not alone in having your press mounted to a board to C clamp to the bar, table or bumper on the pick-up!

I have been wanting a 444 as well. Not sure what for but I still want one. let us know how you like it.

Gringo... did you get a Lee Factory Crimp Die for the 444? It is not included in the Pacesetter dies for the 444.

What bullets you thinking about shooting out of that 444? A good choice is the BTB LFNCG... I see you ordered the lapping kit.

Let us know how everything goes... Wal-Mart order, Boses order and putting it together. I'm just up the road if you need any help.

gringo

Somewhere I have plans for a portable reloading bench that folds up into a nice box with casters on the bottom. It can be stored in a closit or used as an end table next to the couch.

I'll try to find those for you. Nice thing about it is that it's not to bad a looking piece of furniture and everything has a place and stays attached and is out of sight. I'll get back to you in a few days.

Gringo,

Thanks for the feedback. You are now prepared for a great adventure.

Dave

Gringo... did you get a Lee Factory Crimp Die for the 444? It is not included in the Pacesetter dies for the 444.

What bullets you thinking about shooting out of that 444? A good choice is the BTB LFNCG... I see you ordered the lapping kit.

Let us know how everything goes... Wal-Mart order, Boses order and putting it together. I'm just up the road if you need any help.

RD,

I haven't actually ordered the reloading equipment yet, but will soon. Hmm, Boses description says the factory crimp die is included...but Lee's website show's it is not included for that part number. I believe I will wait until Monday and verify with Bose over the phone.

Incidentally, when I first checked orders with Bose, the S&H charges looked outrageous @ $47. An email to them confirmed that the shipping estimate is wrong and will likely be about $15 for the order. Anyhow, in their reply, Bose stated that they will have a new website completed around the middle of September. It is supposed to be easier to navigate, include a much broader line of products, and I suspect it will calculate S&H a little more accurately.

Is that LFNCG or LFNGC?...I still need to read up on loads for the .444.

gringo

Somewhere I have plans for a portable reloading bench that folds up into a nice box with casters on the bottom. It can be stored in a closit or used as an end table next to the couch.

I'll try to find those for you. Nice thing about it is that it's not to bad a looking piece of furniture and everything has a place and stays attached and is out of sight. I'll get back to you in a few days.

Be glad to look at those plans if you can find them faucettb. I wonder how stable something on casters would be for press operation. Thanks.

- GL

I haven't actually ordered the reloading equipment yet, but will soon. Hmm, Boses description says the factory crimp die is included...but Lee's website show's it is not included for that part number. I believe I will wait until Monday and verify with Bose over the phone.

Is that LFNCG or LFNGC?...I still need to read up on loads for the .444.

Yep, you will need to order the FCD for the 444. The large straight wall die sets don't include it as they include the Powder Through Expander Die.

Yep, meant the LFNGC... Long Flat Nose Gas Check. The South Texas deer and hogs hate it. This guy...

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/images/bullets/44-290-LFNGC.jpg (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/details.php?id=51)

Also would like to hear about your Wal-Mart gun... you picking this rifle up in Corpus? I've actually thought about selling my P and T and buying just a current production rifle as I believe it has the best of everything.

RD,

The gun I'm ordering through Wal-Mart should be in next week between Wed. and Fri. It will be the standard 22" barrel gun on Marlin's website. From what I can tell, they've made changes this year in their line-up...by that I mean they have dropped the .444 guide gun and only have the 22" available. Also, on their .45-70's, they don't appear to be porting the guide guns now.

I think you have my location mixed up with someone else...I am in Houston. Yahoo maps put me at 140 miles/3 hrs from Cuero, although, that's not much difference to Corpus. Yahoo maps that distance at 115 miles/2hr-36 min. How far out of Cuero are you on your ranch?

The standard deal with Wal-Mart (for gun lay-a-ways), is a minimum of 50% down on the gun. The price before tax is $416.26 total, and $450.60 with tax. I put down $225.30 and will pay the same upon receipt. Brand new, it can not be found cheaper than that, and it is not one of the cheaper stock lines like you see with the 30-30's sold in the Wal-Mart store. According to the sporting goods clerk, they get a new order catalog and price schedule annually. So if you want to buy at that price, do it in 2005.

I had been looking at some .444's at Gander Mountain. They wanted $450 pretax. The neat thing about Gander Mountain is you can hold the gun in your hands without a store rep hanging over you. The bad thing is, lots of folks do gander at those rifles without care and scuff/rust them up. Call me silly, but if I pay new price, I want to be the first to scuff my rifle.

I hope Marlin never runs out of supply of their American Black Walnut. It surely is a handsome stock they make. The guide gun is certainly appealing, and I'm sorry to see Marlin drop the .444 version. I may see a .45-70 GG enter my hands in the future.

Not sure yet if I want to go scout, or traditional scope mount for it.

Incidentally, do you load for your .444 on the turret press? Do you hand prep your cases, or do you use a drill attachment and/or lathe type case trimmer?

If you use the turret press, make sure that you do every step by hand. By this I mean, weigh each powder charge, make sure to feel the primer seat, and visually check and measure with calipers the seating depth, and crimp. You can have some devastating results if you don't pay very close attention...

"... How far out of Cuero are you on your ranch?

Incidentally, do you load for your .444 on the turret press? Do you hand prep your cases, or do you use a drill attachment and/or lathe type case trimmer?


I'm about 8 miles Southwest of town. Yeah, for some reason I thought you where in Corpus.

I use the Lee Case Trimmers with the Ball-Cutter...
http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/shoppingcart/ballcutter.jpg

I have the Lock Stud chucked up in a battery powered drill...

http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/shoppingcart/lstud.jpg

If you use the turret press, make sure that you do every step by hand. By this I mean, weigh each powder charge, make sure to feel the primer seat, and visually check and measure with calipers the seating depth, and crimp. You can have some devastating results if you don't pay very close attention...

I take it you have experience with the Lee Turret Press?...What calibers have you loaded?

.25/06, 7MM Rem Ultra Mag, .357 Mag, .40 S&W. .32 ACP, .45 ACP....

I didn't like the turret press at all, seemed like I was always fixing something on it...

I went back to my single stage press, and I can produce more rounds with it than I ever did with the turret press.

Matt,

How long ago did you purchase your Lee Turret press? Just curious. I've seen both positive and negative feedback on this item. Makes me wonder if there was not a period when quality control was an issue...

I'm a big believer in the redding presses. I have the big boss and it is on really solid press. I have used lee, hornady RCBS and redding of'course over the last ten years or so. If you can swing it I would suggest the Redding. They offer a start up kit that has about everything you would need. I would suggest looking at ebay or gunbroker .com for some good used presses and equipment. You should also look at graff and sons and midway.com
I've am just now getting geared up to work on the 444 with cast and I'm looking forward to it I'll let you know what I learn along the way.
My back ground in reloading cover these rounds 44 mag 454 casull 223 rem 6.53 scramjet 7.82 Warbird, 30-30. These I currently load . I have loaded 30-06 308 7-08,22-250 45 acp 9mm. My interest in the cast here lately will include 444 and the 45-70. I have just purchased the same 444 marlin as you and have plans to purchase the 45-70 in the furture. Let us all know how your loading ups and downs go. I really enjoy reloading as its own hobby, I hope you will have as much fun with it as I have over the years.

I'm a big believer in the redding presses. I have the big boss and it is on really solid press. I have used lee, hornady RCBS and redding of'course over the last ten years or so. If you can swing it I would suggest the Redding. They offer a start up kit that has about everything you would need. I would suggest looking at ebay or gunbroker .com for some good used presses and equipment. You should also look at graff and sons and midway.com
I've am just now getting geared up to work on the 444 with cast and I'm looking forward to it I'll let you know what I learn along the way.
My back ground in reloading cover these rounds 44 mag 454 casull 223 rem 6.53 scramjet 7.82 Warbird, 30-30. These I currently load . I have loaded 30-06 308 7-08,22-250 45 acp 9mm. My interest in the cast here lately will include 444 and the 45-70. I have just purchased the same 444 marlin as you and have plans to purchase the 45-70 in the furture. Let us all know how your loading ups and downs go. I really enjoy reloading as its own hobby, I hope you will have as much fun with it as I have over the years.

What part of Texas you hail from Chopper? I've already been checking ebay, but Boses has the best prices on presses I've seen. Hadn't thought of gunbroker.

If I go the single-stage route, then I'll get a Lee Classic Cast press ($57.38 at Boses). In fact, I am thinking about getting it in addition to the turret press. If you haven't seen it before, check it out at Midway's and read the reviews on it:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=317831

I'd be glad to hear how your .444 reloading goes. I will eventually be loading for the .45 ACP as well.

Thanks for your input and it's good to see there are plenty of .444 owners in the Beartooth forum.

- GL

I think it was about 5 years old... A friend of mine had it, and wanted to get rid of it (also went with single stage) and I wanted to try it... I used it for about 6 months and grew tired of it pretty quick. I gave it back to him... he said it works better now after I took care of it but still prefers the single stage.

Gringo, you won't go wrong with the Lee Turret press. I've got somewhere in the neighborhood of 15000 rounds through the press without any problems. Sure is nice to slap another turret on for a different caliber and the dies are ready to go. Saves a lot of time if you shoot a lot.

I use it to load 25 Auto, 218 Bee, 30-30 Win, 35 Rem, 356 Win, 375 Win, 44 Mag, 444 Marlin, 45 APC, 45 Colt, 45-70 Govt, and 450 Marlin. I had to special order the Pacesetter Dies for the 450 but don't want to use any other. To go from the 25 Auto to the 450 Marlin takes less than 10 seconds.

I've been working on loads for my 444T and shot it last night. I'm using the .432 280-grain WFNGC BTB. I wanted to use a shorter bullet because of the twist rate in the older rifles. Using H322 and H4198 with some outstanding results.

Also working on my 450 Marlin with the same powders and the .460 425-grain WLNGC BTB. This is going to be on heck of a combination!

RD,

I'm thinking I would like to develop some loads with the 250 gr and 290 gr LFNGC's to start. I've no doubt that 250 gr is plenty for Texas deer and 290 gr should handle 99% of everything else in North America. If I'm ever fortunate enough to hunt the bigger stuff up in the NW, I can certainly work up loads in the 330 gr arena.

Is that .432 diameter a given for all marlin .444's?...or does a fella need to see what his rifle prefers. I know Marshal did his testing in the tech note and indicated .432 worked best in his, and leading occurred below .431 at his velocities.

Say, does your T have microgroove or ballard rifling?

GL,

I've found that .432" diameter bullets indeed do perform absolutely the best in all of the .444's tested to date, including those of our customers. The throats in these guns, while relatively short, are large in diameter. The .432" bullets to fill the throat is a major key to attaining the excellent accuracy many of us enjoy from these rifles. Rifling, MicroGroove or Ballard doesn't seem to matter, so long as the bullets are .432".

God bless,

Say, does your T have microgroove or ballard rifling?

I see Marshall answered most of your questions but yes the T has the Micro-Groove rifling. I wanted to use a little shorter bullet because of that rifling and chose the 280-grain WFNGC BTB.

I started to develop the load I will be hunting with this fall and should be done later in the week. I posted this picture in another thread but... looks like it is going to shoot pretty good. I'm gonna shoot a mule deer, whitetail and antelope with this bullet.

http://www.shootersforum.com/attachment.htm?attachmentid=2965

Gringo, I hail from waco I have lived here a couple years I came form Mo. but I got here as quick as I could,haha. I checked out the lee press and that one looks more solid than the old one I tried years ago, looks like it should do the job fine. I load most of my stuff on a single stage but I load the 45acp on a dillon progressive square deal B it works flawlessley I just thought I might throw that in just incase you shoot alot of 45acp as I do. It is only worth it if you shoot alot. You might keep a look out on the aboved mention web-site if interesed I know if your paticent you will eventually find what you looking for.


I just want to note to everyone on this site give a thought to the people that the hurricane effected.

Gringo, you won't go wrong with the Lee Turret press. I've got somewhere in the neighborhood of 15000 rounds through the press without any problems. Sure is nice to slap another turret on for a different caliber and the dies are ready to go. Saves a lot of time if you shoot a lot.

I use it to load 25 Auto, 218 Bee, 30-30 Win, 35 Rem, 356 Win, 375 Win, 44 Mag, 444 Marlin, 45 APC, 45 Colt, 45-70 Govt, and 450 Marlin. I had to special order the Pacesetter Dies for the 450 but don't want to use any other. To go from the 25 Auto to the 450 Marlin takes less than 10 seconds.

I've been working on loads for my 444T and shot it last night. I'm using the .432 280-grain WFNGC BTB. I wanted to use a shorter bullet because of the twist rate in the older rifles. Using H322 and H4198 with some outstanding results.

Also working on my 450 Marlin with the same powders and the .460 425-grain WLNGC BTB. This is going to be on heck of a combination!

Ranch Dog,

Got a few questions for you...and anyone else who wants to chime in I'd be pleased and welcome:

What's your COAL on that 280 gr WFNGC? and how does it feed?

I'm trying to decide whether to buy a tumbler...live in an apartment though and not sure if this wouldn't be a nuisance to neighbors. Are they very loud? I have an outlet on my patio, and I live on the 2nd floor. I'm thinking I can put it out there in the far corner and close the sliding glass doors. Wanting to know what your opinion is on the noise level/vibrations. Also, does dust/medium tend to escape the container while tumbling? As an alternative, I may wash cases in that NRA vinegar formula.

Ranch Dog,

Got a few questions for you...and anyone else who wants to chime in I'd be pleased and welcome:

What's your COAL on that 280 gr WFNGC? and how does it feed?

I'm trying to decide whether to buy a tumbler...live in an apartment though and not sure if this wouldn't be a nuisance to neighbors. Are they very loud? I have an outlet on my patio, and I live on the 2nd floor. I'm thinking I can put it out there in the far corner and close the sliding glass doors. Wanting to know what your opinion is on the noise level/vibrations. Also, does dust/medium tend to escape the container while tumbling? As an alternative, I may wash cases in that NRA vinegar formula.
gringo_loco
I purchased a tumbler kit from Cabela's a year or so ago and have been very happy with it. When I started reloading I would just blow my cases out with compressed air before I reloaded to remove any grit and that seemed to work fine except there was some residue left on the cases. I then started using the solutions as you mention and that removed the residue that was left on the cases. Christmas came around and someone needed an idea for a gift for me and that was when I picked up the tumbler. The tumbler Cabela's sells is the same one RCBS sells except it has Cabela's name on it and is cheaper. I put the unit on the cement floor of my shop and the sound does seem to transmit into the garage. I think if you placed it on a rug or old piece of carpet this sound transmission would not happen. I like the results of the tumbler. The cases come out very clean and with no residue. I also blow them down with compressed air to remove any of the media dust and particles that may be wedged in the primer pocket as I deprime before I tumble. I have not noticed any dust coming from the tumbler while in oeration. I have found the tumbler a time and labor saver when it comes to cleaning cases. So far I only use the corn cob media with the polish to clean the cases because it seems to do the job. This is just my two cents worth.
Cary

GL...

My OAL for the 444 and the WFNCG is 2.491". Feeds slicker than snail snot!

I have had a Frankford Tumbler Kit (Midway) (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=668307) for some time now and polish all my brass before I start the reloading operation. I think it keeps the dies in better shape. I use the corn cob media that came with the kit and there is no telling how many loads (years) of brass it will clean. It is also very quite and I don't think it would be a problem in an apartment.

GL...

My OAL for the 444 and the WFNCG is 2.491". Feeds slicker than snail snot!

I have had a Frankford Tumbler Kit (Midway) (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=668307) for some time now and polish all my brass before I start the reloading operation. I think it keeps the dies in better shape. I use the corn cob media that came with the kit and there is no telling how many loads (years) of brass it will clean. It is also very quite and I don't think it would be a problem in an apartment.

Thanks. Yeah, Frankford is the one I've been scoping out. I think I can take care of excess noise by using an insulative cover and base as a muffler if it becomes an issue. Should be cheap and easy to do.

Followup RD...

I was just looking in Loadswap and saw your load with the Lee TLC432-285-RF.

For that bullet, you show a 0.432 diameter. I was looking on Lee's site, and did not see that diameter available?...how'd you do that?

I also have the Frankford Arsenal tumbler. Its actually really quiet... you wouldn't be able to put anything insulating around it, it would shake it off. Plus, it builds up heat (friction, electrical motor) that you want to vent off in a normal fashion.

Followup RD...

I was just looking in Loadswap and saw your load with the Lee TLC432-285-RF.

For that bullet, you show a 0.432 diameter. I was looking on Lee's site, and did not see that diameter available?...how'd you do that?

It was a Lee Special Order mold that I put together and lucky for me a group of other fellows took interest in the project and that helps bring the cost down. Lee charges a $100 setup fee and then the cost of the molds. If you order 25 molds, they drop the setup fee. All special order charges include shipping but, for instance, all 25 molds are shipped to the buyer and must be individually shipped out from there. It really takes about 6 months to see a project like this through. Most of the time waiting on Lee to cut the molds as they do a lot of special order work.

It was pretty cool when the shooting and hunting reports started coming in... the bullet design took bear, blacktail, mule, and whitetail deer, elk, moose, and nilgai! I can only image how Marshall must feel when he gets the many reports about the BTBs.

I was going to do another mold order this year, with some minor changes, and add some for other calibers but it is all on hold because of what has been going on around my place this summer... may be next year. I would like to work on the 35 Rem and 375 Win for sure.

In that you are just getting started I would suggest you focus on shooting the BTB and learning what makes them shoot well. The Lee Modern Reloading II offers a bunch of information on casting bullets and through that you can begin to understand what works in getting a cast bullet out the barrel. Marshall's Technical Guide is another great read on what it takes to get the most from your rifle with cast bullets.

I just moved my lead yesterday from a portable storage building into my barn... a little under 4000#!!!

Cool stuff RD.

It will be some time before I get around to casting. An apartment just isn't the place for it. But it never hurts to start learning ahead of time :D. I've been reading through the ABC's book and I also bought Lyman's 48th yesterday. Both very good reads. Just got confirmation that my Boses order has shipped, so Lee's Modern manual is on the way. My .444 rifle arrived on 8/31 and she's real purty :D:D:D.

Where'd you get all that lead?

I put in an order for 500 of the 250g WFNGC's currently on special and 200 of the 290g LFNGC's...it's a start. Given the hazardous shipping fees, I'll be looking at local supplies for powder. Are gun shows a good place to pick up powder cheap in bulk?

I guess I need to start scoping out some chronographs else I'll be poking in the dark.

I use a Midway tumbler (I think they are Frankford now) to clean all of my cases. I used to de-prime them before tumbling but I found that the media tended to stick in the primer pocket or the flash hole, so I switchet to tumbling fresh from firing and following regular re-loading practices afterward.

I follow a practice of clean, prep, prime, charge, seat, crimp, with all appropriate measurements taken. I think I read that somewhere ... :)

The only difference I can see betweem the posts here is how the cleaning is done. IMHEXP, tumbling with the spent primer in place, de-priming, and then specifically cleaning the primer pocket works best.

GL...

About the lead... I bought 1800# of linotype at an abandoned printing press and have managed to gather the rest in the form of wheel weights from various sources.

I would love to see the wood on your new Marlin. I bought two new rifles last year and both had the best wood on any of my Marlins. My 444P is the same way. In looking across the board at what I have, the newer the rifle the better the wood. That includes fit and finish. The 336ERs are in demand but the wood on every one I've looked at is... well, I will put it this way... most broom handles have a better finish. May be that is why the rifle didn't survive.

You can find Chrony's from $60 up. I've had a Chrony F1 for years but bought a CED Millennium last year and it is a VERY nice product with great features.

http://shootingsoftware.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/chron.gif (http://shootingsoftware.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=CED)

You might also put some thought into reloading record keeping. There are many ways to do it from pages in a notebook to software. Software is almost classified in two categories... databases managers and load generators. With that CED chronograph, I bought RSI's Shooting Lab and wish I would have had it since I started reloading! It's a database manager and offers NO load data but the internal and exterior ballistic programs are top notch. I also have some spreadsheets that I put together that help me with developing loads.

http://shootingsoftware.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/SLWcart.gif (http://shootingsoftware.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=RSILab)

Gringo...

Thanks for the email and I thought I would post your pictures for you! I might just have to consider a new rifle, I would be nice to have all the best features of past 444s tied up in one and that is what I consider the current rifle to be.

The pictures are too large for the forum to accept and simply needed to be resized. Taking a photo down to a width of about 550 pixels while letting the software preserve the aspect ratio of the photo (height) seems to be a good size that keeps the forum within the screen width of most PCs.

A great shareware photo editor is...http://www.irfanview.com/images/iview_logo.gif (http://www.irfanview.com/)

That's a really handsome rifle Michael! I've actually looked at the new model 444S, and really like both the proportions of the gun, and especially the quality and execution of the wood on these new guns.

I've actually considered just buying new production wood for my old model .444S, but haven't done the deed.... that old girl has seen lots of action, and the beauty marks it carries are from honest use and each scar carries a memory, besides, she's getting kind of a silvery patina on much of the metal from seasons afield, and new wood just wouldn't look right anyhow I guess. This year will be the 25th season for that rifle to go afield and make meat. A good friend in the Idaho pucker-brush.

Thanks for the pix of your new brush companion.

God bless,

gringo, if you shoot lead load just a few ,make sure they cycle thru the action. also , consider the the heavier bullets, 265 + class, recheck midway seems they use to carry a portable bench. good luck with your new rifle, i'm sure you are going to enjoy it.

i'm back, (where i have heard that before)
powder wise reloader 7, 4198, And possibly 3031
will show up. Lee you might see aa2495 also not a bad choice.

Thanks for the advice Eagle Eye. I believe I will have some dummy cartridges for lever cycling, and to measure distance to the lands for each bullet type.


I'll definitely have a look at other bullet weights. The 250g's are a good place to start. Them being on special didn't hurt either.

Just got confirmation that my Boses order has shipped, so Lee's Modern manual is on the way.

Gringo...

Don't know if you have bought a tumbler yet but I just got a sneak preview of Boses new web site and they are going to be handling the Frankford Arsenal products...

http://216.105.53.205/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2144

$39 vs. $45 at Midway USA. Every $ helps...

RD,

Turns out I found the Frankford Arsenal Tumbler Kit (w/Rotary separator) on Boses current website for $57.39 vs the Midway price of $74.99. What I found about the current Boses website is, there are many items which are difficult to find through the links...but the search option is the solution to that conundrum. For Lee products, just type in the Lee product number, and they typically have it. I'll be glad to see their new site...the current one leaves a lot to be desired. Did they give you an estimate for when the new site will be online?

Also, the best price for the CED chronograph I found was $169.99 at http://www.cactustactical.com/ced/reloading.html with S&H for $8.25. This is a little more than I wanted to spend for a chronograph, but for the extra features and slim design, I'll go for it. Not too impressed with the Chrony's. Pact would be second choice and Oehler just thinks way too highly of themselves.

For a scope, I'm thinking of going with the Burris handgun scope 2-7x on an XS Scout mount. Most likely will go with XS peep sight. The Brockman peep sight is nice, but must be kin to Oehler. Have you ever used or know about the Williams WGRS sight ?(http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=681364) It looks good, but I'm not sure how rugged it is.

Cleaning Rod: I'm looking at the Tipton Carbon Fiber rod. Question...is the 26" rod long enough for cleaning from the breech?....assuming there is a bore-guide? Also, do you have any recommendations for a bore-guide?

Having made some measurements, and reading the manual on how to clean from the breech end, it looks like 26" would be a little shy. Probably have to go with the 36" rod. I haven't seen any bore-guides for the .444 Marlin for the breech end. May have to look at adapting one for a different chambering. Any suggestions on this would be appreciated.

A MTM bore guide for a Remington 700, Winchester 70, Mauser, etc is an extremely tight fit. You'll likely peel off some plastic inside the action the first few times you use it, so take a look for it. It will need some reaming at the front end for a .444 and pull the yellow plug at the back end. Works on my .35 Remington.

Bye
Jack

Thanks Jack ... I'll nose around for that bore guide. The only one I found specifically for the .444 was a Dewey brass one, but it was for the muzzle.

Yeah, thanks Jack! I might ought to get me one too.

Here's an easy solution for bore guides! It's from the Beartooth Bullets Tips section of the website! (Browse this resource as there are lots of timely tips here for hunting season!)

Quick & Easy Bore Guides! (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tips/archive_tips.htm/57)

God bless,

Marshall,

That certainly would make a custom fit to the chamber...but what about the effective bearing length of the case head as a guide? ... seems a little short; i.e., a longer bearing length seems like it might guide the rod better...less likely to pivot. That being said, I don't have one tenth the experience you and others on this forum do. I'm going to get the MTM guide since it's only about $6. I might also bore a once-fired case and give it a try as well to see how they compare.

Thanks.

- GL

Hello folks,

About 4 months ago, I started a thread under handloading equipment titled ".444 Marlin vs. .45-70 Gov't (http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=20388)." Just wanted to say thanks to all who contributed to that thread and felt I owed them an update. I finally decided on the .444 Marlin with 22" barrel. Ordered it through Wal-Mart Layaway and should get it next week.

For Handloading Equipment, I decided to go with the following:

1. Lee 4-Hole Turret Press w/Auto Index - lee90932
2. Lee Extra 4-Hole Turret - lee90269
3. Lee 3-Die Set w/Powder thru Expanding Die (444 Marlin) - lee90562
4. Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure - lee90429
5. Lee Double Disk Kit - lee90195
6. Lee Adjustable Charge Bar - lee90792
7. Lee Powder Funnel - lee90190
8. Lee Swivel Adapter (Auto Disk Powder Measure) - lee90477
9. Hornady Powder Trickler
10. Lee Primer Pocket Cleaner - lee90101
11. Lee Chamfer Tool - lee90109
12. Lee Case Length Gauge & Shell Holder (444 Marlin) - lee90151
13. Lee Cutter w/Ball Grip - lee90275
14. Lee Cutter and Lock Stud - lee90110
15. Lee Safety Powder Scale - lee90681
16. Lee Reloader Pack - lee90700 (includes the following items):
A. Modern Reloading, 2nd Ed. By Richard Lee
B. Lee Reloader, Single Stage C-Press

17. Lee Lock Rings (package of 3) - lee90534
18. Lee Auto Prime Shellholder Set of 11 - lee90198
19. Lee Auto Prime - lee90230
20. Lee Universal Shellholder Set (for presses) - lee90197
21. Frankford Arsenal Bullet Puller - ph836017
22. Lee Universal Decapping Die - lee90292
23. Lee Universal Decapping Replacement Pin - lee90783
24. Hornady One Shot Case Lube (8 oz pump)
25. MTM Universal Loading Tray - LT150M-30
26. The Complete Reloading Manual for the .444 Marlin (Loadbooks USA)
27. Frankford Arsenal Dial Caliper
28. Lyman Flashhole Uniformer Tool
29. 600 once fired .444 Rem. Brass for $99 (Safary Supply...Thanks Ranch Dog!)
30. Beartooth Bullets Fire Lapping Kit and sinker slugs
31. ABC's of Reloading, 7th Ed.

Still have a few items left to add to the list (can you say powder, bullets and primers :)), but it's a healthy start. Instead of just purchasing "Modern Reloading, 2nd Ed," I opted for the pack (item 16 above). The manual can be had for about $10 alone, but for $8 more, I get an extra press which will likely perform decapping and other sundry duties. I compared prices at Bosesguns, Natchez, Midsouth and MidwayUSA. Hands down, Boses has the best prices, although a few items will be bought from Midway since they were the only ones who had them. One excellent feature of MidwayUSA's site are the Customer's Product Reviews. I highly recommend that feature, whether you purchase from Midway or not. The reviews often include tips and work-a-rounds to glitches, in addition to opinions.

I decided not to buy the packaged reloading press kits as I knew that I would upgrade a number of items anyways. Since I live in an apartment, I will be mounting to 2x6 slabs and C-clamping to a permanent built-in desktop, allowing for modular mobility (a requirement which my fashion-conscious significant other staunchly demands ;), although I personally think all that red looks pretty handsome myself :D). I'll eventually tool up for the .45 ACP as well, but will start with the 444.

Thanks again everyone.

Err umm...how much did all that cost?

Err umm...how much did all that cost?
Warlock, keep in mind that some of those items are optional and some can be had as part of a kit. I would also emphasize that you will want to read a manual, then check out retailers (online or otherwise) and also to check out the product manufacturers websites and read their product descriptions:

http://www.leeprecision.com/
http://www.rcbs.com
http://www.redding-reloading.com/
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/index.htm
http://www.hornady.com/

Obviously, my vote went with Lee's equipment, and when you see the difference in prices, it's not hard to figure out why. Also, for every person who does not like Lee, there are several, very experienced loaders out there who love Lee's stuff. They are also rather innovative as well. I know that because I really did a lot of research before buying, not because someone told me. And that is what I suggest you do, so you will be able to make an informed decision about what you are getting, not just how much it costs.

The cost of the equipment in the list above, excluding the following items: #26, #29, #30, #31 was about $300. Keep in mind that I didn't have to purchase item #'s 17, 18, 20. Also, didn't really need item #16 (I wanted that extra press for $8 more to use with item # 22, which was also optional). Further, I didn't have to get item #'s 4, 5, and 6 (an Auto Disk Powder Measure comes with the turret press kit, but I wanted to upgrade to the "Pro" version, so I didn't get the kit). All those optional items I purchased cost me more money, because I was looking down the road and trying to avoid spending money in the future for options and conveniences I wanted.

Glad to see you weathered the storm GL...

Glad to see you weathered the storm GL...

Thanks RD,

We didn't evacuate since we don't live in a flood prone area of Houston. I made sure of that before locating. Even if there had been high winds (which there weren't), we would have been OK. We only had minor inconveniences (lack of gas, closed stores) due to the mass evacuation. Others of course, weren't so fortunate, and they are in our prayers. Hope all is well with you and yours, and that your parents are getting settled in.

Be blessed.

Yeap we held tight here. The highways were pretty choked with folks trying to figure out where to go.

Dad and I leave for Alpine and antelope on Friday morning...

Hi Gringo_loco, I too am getting a 444. Mine is the SS model. Where did you get that once fired brass you referred too?

Hi Gringo_loco, I too am getting a 444. Mine is the SS model. Where did you get that once fired brass you referred too?

Safari Supply (http://stores.ebay.com/Safari-Supply_Riffle-Brass-100-pc_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZ1QQftidZ2QQtZkm) ... it's an ebay store and the guy who sells goes by the handle of tinman. Ranch Dog turned me on to that supplier.

Thanks Gringo

Hot Diggity!!! ... My BTB order finally arrived and I finished mounting my Lee turret press a few days ago. Time to start load development :D.