Shot some loads last night in my Big Bore Winchester.

39.0 Gr. of H322 under a BTB 210 Gr. LFNGC.

So so accuracy.....1.75 inches at about 75 yards. But, report and recoil were quite nasty off the bench. One get the idea of why Mic McPherson called the 356 recoil "brutal". Even sitting up straight, it was pretty punishing....with the recoil making me open the lever partially. I am going back to developing loads with IMR-4320 until I can get my hands on some Varget. The 4320 give me near 1" at these same ranges and is a more gentle load.

It's official. I am officially changing my handle on these forums to "THREADKILLER"! I could hire myself out to squash controversial threads everywhere :D

Chris
I was kinda waiting to hear some more.
I load Varget under the .205gr. RCBS lead pill in both the 35 rem and 358W and this seems to be a good powder choice for both . No leading.
I would think powders of the same burning rate by ACC. and IMR should show similar results.
Now regarding the 356. It might also be that like myself , we are a bit jealous you got a 356 and we don't :(

Keep us all posted.
Happy :)

Chris, You stole my handle!

Seriously, I'll try some more H322 with the RCBS bullet and we'll see how my results compare.

You need a pad!

I started working with my 336ER this week. Using the 359 FNCG 200-grain BTB and H335. Not bad. As soon as I fire up my laptop I will post those results.. still working on the 10% to MAX in five steps.

I pretty much decided to switch to the 359 WLNGC+P 180-grain BTB, not sure what powder yet... BL-C(2), H322, or H335.

I put a grind to fit LimbSaver on my ER and there is no recoil.

Thanks for caring fellas, and for the replies. I'll let you know how Varget works in my 356 Harry as soon as I get some made up. Me thinks I will get a pad real soon Slim. I like the lace up butt cuff pads but have put off getting one until I had to. Guess its time! God Bless, Chris PS...will be anxious to see how that bullet does Ranchdog.

[QUOTE= I like the lace up butt cuff pads but have put off getting one until I had to. QUOTE]


Here is the start of a different thread for you to kill :D
I suggest a Past type pad that you can wear with any rifle. A lace up pad works well if you have a short stock. You need to dress in the clothes you hunt in and try to shoulder your rifle with the extra length pad. Roll some masking tape in a circle and attach it to the face of your thin recoil pad. Attach a pices of hard foam about 3/4" thick. Then try to snap the rifle to your shoulder. Have your boys roll a ball in the back yard while you tract it with an unloaded rifle. 3/4" is a lot of extra pull in addition to your winter clothes, unless you have the arms of a.... Its okay if you do. My wife has commented once or twice that my knuckles drag the ground every now and then!

Thanks Slim! Always appreciate your input, and couldn't let you kill the thread :D I will be trying some of those options for sure amigo.

Here is what I did this week with the .358 FNGC 200-grain BTB. I started pretty low but hope to work up to 43.5-grains as suggested by my Load From A Disk software. The program suggest that 41.3-grains of H322 might be optimal and the number above the MAX.

I would prefer to be using .359 bullets but I bought these from a fellow forum member and did not order them directly from Marshall. I might stop this work and move on to the 180-grain WLNGC+P BTB.


Powder: H335
VDM: 0.0645
Burn Index: 67
OAL: 2.385

Load # Grains CC MOA FPS SD ES 95% PSI
#1 37.0 2.39 2.81 1945 22 58 30
#2 38.0 2.45 2.92 1999 13 35 18
#3 39.0 2.52 1.41 2052 9 23 20

Thanks Ranch Dog! Those loads are about where I like to be....around 35 Rem. velocities. I will add H335 to my list...not bad accuracy at atll. Are you single loading those 200 grainers, or will they feed in your Marlin? I tried them in my Winchester and had to really deep seat them(no throat to speak of). They would not feed either. I just wonder if that +p bullet wouldn't.

I'm feeding them through the tube. OAL for the 200-grain bullet is 2.385" and for the 180-grain bullet 2.475".

Chris,

I honestly was going to enter in here, but was sidetracked. Not sure what I can add. The only Varget info I have is what I interpreted from the 358 data. I used a lower dose and was impressed with the accuracy with moderate velocity, somewhere around 2200fps with a 200gr. Core lokt. I use a full dose of H355 (49gr) with mine, and have outstanding velocity (2480), with no pressure signs. H322 was my number two choice, and gave good accuracy as well. Interpreting accuracy in my gun has been a challenge, because it seems a bit more challenging to me to shoot than a Marlin. Have a hard time getting used to the trigger. I do know that one of my favorite powders, H4198 was inaccurate. Can't remember its velocity. Benchmark is another to look at if you want accuracy. It was in the top 3 for me.

Seems that the top accuracy came from a 20 or 21gr. of 2400 and a copy of Beartooth's 210gr bullet. It is a mold exactly fasioned like that bullet. I got lower velocity with one hole accuracy at 50 yards.

Thank you Dr. A. It is good to hear from you and I appreciate your input on this cartridge. I looks like I'm gonna buy a can of H335 along with the Varget.....see how I do. I was getting about 1" at 50-60 yards with my current loads of 43.0 Grains of IMR 4320, and they print right over the bull the way I have it set up. Still, I would love to find that elusive "one ragged hole" group at a good hunting velocity! Many thanks to all you fellas.

I do noT have a 356 W , rather ended up with a 358W. I wanted something in the 35 cal that was a bit stronger than the 35 remington Marlin that I have.
I decided to look for a 356 winnie, but a 358 BLR crossed my trail first.
Since then I have had a few 356 winnies in front of me and I wonder if I should have bought the 356W .
Time will tell.

The varget powder seems to work well for the lead bullets.It seems one of those powders were you run out of case room before you have a pressure overload.

In my 35 Marlin it groups the 205 GC( RCBS mould ) , but the powder fails with the jacketed bullets.
Then the 200 gr. Rem. bullets do not group with this gun .
It likes the 180 speer and BLC-2 the best .
I found it amaging how one load over the other ,can make day or night from a 2 1/2 group to under an inch with the same gun, same brass.
Then a plus , I can leave the sites alone for the lead and the speer bullet. A Win /Win situation.

So once again you need to shop for powder and bullet that best suits your gun.

The data I have for the 356 shows 48 grs of 748 Winchester powder for the 200 gr bullet.

Also According to Hodgon data ( MAX loads)

200Gr.SIE RN
BLc-2 50 grs Vel 2243
H335 49 2269
H4895 46 2338
H322 44. 2340
:) Maybe you need to work a bit with this powder to get a group

H4198 40 2383

Hope this might be of some help.
Happy

I do noT have a 356 W , rather ended up with a 358W. I wanted something in the 35 cal that was a bit stronger than the 35 remington Marlin that I have.
I decided to look for a 356 winnie, but a 358 BLR crossed my trail first.
Since then I have had a few 356 winnies in front of me and I wonder if I should have bought the 356W .
Time will tell.

Yeah...I just couldn't get away from the Winchesters feel and portability....nothing quite like it. But you pay for that light weight and profile with these heavy kickers. You have more versatility with your BLR...can make some insane Bearstoppers for that gun.

The varget powder seems to work well for the lead bullets.It seems one of those powders were you run out of case room before you have a pressure overload.

You and Slim have me excited about trying this powder. I also like the fact that it is almost idiot proof in terms of overcharging. That makes a.....ahhhhh..."challenged" person such as myself feel a little more comfortable. I have one peeper(the Left) so I am overly cautious.
In my 35 Marlin it groups the 205 GC( RCBS mould ) , but the powder fails with the jacketed bullets.
Then the 200 gr. Rem. bullets do not group with this gun .
It likes the 180 speer and BLC-2 the best .
I found it amaging how one load over the other ,can make day or night from a 2 1/2 group to under an inch with the same gun, same brass.
Then a plus , I can leave the sites alone for the lead and the speer bullet. A Win /Win situation.

So once again you need to shop for powder and bullet that best suits your gun.

Yeah......I shot that RCBS 200 Grainer and it really performed well...a supply given to me. I bought the mold and tried casting but was not successful in the small time frame that I had to do it. I have 2 little boys, and one of them can't keeps his hands out of his mouth and eyes, so I have stayed away from casting because of this. I have stuck with commercially cast bullets these last few years....quick and safe. I do like the Beartooth 210 grain, but there is almost not enough throat in the Winchesters to take advantage of the bullet's potential(slightly deepseated)


The data I have for the 356 shows 48 grs of 748 Winchester powder for the 200 gr bullet.

Also According to Hodgon data ( MAX loads)

200Gr.SIE RN
BLc-2 50 grs Vel 2243
H335 49 2269
H4895 46 2338
H322 44. 2340
Maybe you need to work a bit with this powder to get a group

Yessir.....but for some reason, the recoil is God awful with this powder(H322). Maybe it's just me....I am only using the starting load for 220 grain and man......have to recheck my fillings when I pull the trigger. Bookuu recoil with IMR 4320 also but it is slower and not so violent an experience. Many thanks again!
H4198 40 2383

CHris
The BLR is under seven pounds , but it has a real nice recoil pad straight from the factory.
Something to look at with your winnie.
H4895 might be another powder to try.
I like it for the 30/30, and also load it in the 35 Rem.

Do you have any buddies that reload? I have a few that reload for Hand Guns , but few for rifles. Some times you can get a sample of powder this way , instead of buying a pound of this and that .
We have a few different calipiers and it does not take long to invest in at least ten different powders.

Some times I will get lucky and use the same powder for two rifles , some times you end up with a pound that was just not suitable for what you wanted it for.

I buy my 205GR gas checked bullets from BC Canada. The price is right for me shipping wise , plus they put out a great product.
The load that I use in the 35 Rem, I will try deer hunting.Something you might consider too , should your rifle like the bullet.
Look at some of the posts from Remingtons 35 on Marlin owners .com for some idea's.
Your just able to use a bit more powder were the 35 Rem would need to compress that load you would be fine.
Happy

Nearly 2 years ago now, my wife read a bit on retinal detachment and the need for a pad when shooting the megaboominblastin guns. She decided after listening to my elk gun ( a 338WM), that I should be using it while shooting that gun. I use it a bit in the Summer when I don't have my coat on. That for me pretty much eliminates any discomfort. Slim is right, better go get one. Accuracy is alot better when you're comfortable. My concentration has to be at its utmost when shooting the 338WM. To me, its sharp boom/crack is vicious, and I pull shots often if not fully concentrating. I also learned to do a leaning (supported) standing shot that does not require me to do a bench. I put a platform on top of a bench, and my body can sway with the kick. Works well for me, and my body absorbes the punishment, instead of stopping it!

Ok fellas, you've convinced me!!! ;) I'm getting the pad. Retinal detachments are bad...suffered one when I lost the sight in my right eye(this was because of an accident, not disease). I too shoot from the upright when I can. Gotta love those truck hoods! Just gotta make sure you don't shott into it when youre sight in :eek: Harry......the reason I have been using the IMR 4350 and faster IMR 4320 is that I thought I could double up on loading for both my 356 Win. and my 6.5 Swede. Still saving up to get the stuff for my Swede....stocking up on the Carcano bullets(.268) which are correct for my gun, but still without dies. This week, I am heading out to do some penetration tests with the 356. Griz's post got me interested in seeing how many jugs a 356 will penetrate. His 45/70 made it through 12 jugs. I am shooting the 43 gr. load of 4320 under a Beartooth 210 Gr. .......slow load but I'm gonna see how she does. Many thanks fellas!

Harry, do you know if they will ship some of those RCBS's over the border? I would love to get my hands on a batch of them. Thanks.

I think this is where Harry's getting his bullets.
http://www.thebulletbarn.com/default.html

Marshall has a similar bullet. It's probably a lot less hassle to get his bullets, although it's less trouble to send gun stuff south, than north, and it's the south side that's the problem most of the time.

Bye
Jack

Thanks Jack. BHN is pretty high...25. I think I will be hitting Marshall up for some more of his 210's really soon. Appreciate the help fellas, and for not making me change my title to THREADKILLER! ;)

I think this is where Harry's getting his bullets.
http://www.thebulletbarn.com/default.html

Marshall has a similar bullet. It's probably a lot less hassle to get his bullets, although it's less trouble to send gun stuff south, than north, and it's the south side that's the problem most of the time.

Bye
Jack


Your right on Jack. I do get them from the bullet barn and have very good performance with them. My rifle likes them

I also agree with getting stuff south . Getting "Stuff " north seems to be slow and drives the price of the product up twice or three times as much.
A can of Wipe Out cost me about eighty dollars for instance
Darn good suff ,and I am careful on how much I use.

Gasoline now costs some werein the 1.36/ 1.38 per litre at the pumps the last few weeks . figure about for litre to the gallon to round things off nicely, and factor the exchange for out Canadain dollar

Well here again I suddenly am more careful on how much I use.
Then I now drive fifly miles per hour instead of the 65. to 70 miles an hour where the speed limit is sixty.

Geting back to topic:

I am sure that Marshall has a simlar type bullet , and on the plus side you can order to fit your bore size .
Hear the 358 W should have the bullet sized 358/359 and some of the336/35 might benifit from the 359/360/ 361 sized bullet.

In this case Marshall would be the best place to shop.

If the product was not going to cost more than a dollar plus a round, I too would be buying from Beartooth , since I am convinced the product too is second to none.


My ol' ballard rifled 336 loves" the bullet barn bullet" , so why mess with something that works. Same goes for my 44 and 357.

Besides Louis is a super person and has always treated me like I was the only person bying the product.

With that type of service , I am indeed very loyal and buy ninty -nine persent of my lead from her.

Happy